Testosterone needed?

[mac111]

Testosterone is most definitely required for libido

 

[foreveryoung]

What did you experience? I haven't heard any 1st person accounts on libido suffering from no testosterone when trenbolone is included. Neither on tren only cycles! Maybe I need to learn to use the search function better..

weird stuff starts to happen, like being extremely turned where I couldn't think of much other than sex, but then only have my erection last for a few strokes and then go completely limp yet still be very turned on. other times finding it absolutely impossible to orgasm even though being very turned on. all over the place but definitely not normal function. strong mental effects too, tren is so powerful, girls were attracted to me more than ever, maybe the vibe I was putting out, I don't know for sure, but my function made it a clusterfuck. my physique was insanely ripped, but very ugly zits started to get worse and worse the longer I was on it so it was something that girls would comment on when I took my shirt off, but also comment on my muscles which looked hard and ripped

so much about tren is so powerful in so many ways, but I don't believe it is a healthy thing to go on and I am going to avoid it now, although I do miss many things about it

 

[Sworder]

How much were you running and for how long?

I agree about tren being powerful and I believe it to be very very androgenic to the point where it may be detrimental to one's health.

 

[Dr JIM]

Hell no! The testicles atrophy because cycling with essentially any AAS results in reduced secretion of endogenous LH. I was referring to the fact that D-bol and Tren are both potent anabolics and there use, in effective doses, MARKEDLY reduces LH secretion causing "pea sized" testicular atrophy.. The consequence of such significant reductions of LH secretion is a flattening of testosterone production which may eventually approximate zero.
I cant believe anyone's libido could be anything but "the shits" under these circumstances, in spite of the often described "androgenic effect" of Tren. I also suspect the full impact may not be realized until at least four weeks of a "Tren cycle" has passed. This cycle, as described by Sworder, would be void of either testosterone or HCG, otherwise my commentary would be a non-sequitor.

 

[leoclaw79]

Moral of the story: Always use HCG on cycles longer than 2 weeks.

 

[Dr JIM]

Sworder
There's no doubt Tren has an androgenic "DHT" effect but absent any significant quantities of endogenous DHT (the most potent androgen) testosterone (2nd most potent or androstenedione (3rd most potent) the combined amount of "androgen" generated because of Tren metabolism would be wholly inadequate to sustain a "normal" (one second errctions are not included) libido.
So absent supplementation with either testosterone or HCG your libido would approximate zip, IMO

 

[Dr JIM]

Sworder
There's no doubt Tren has an androgenic "DHT" effect but absent any significant quantities of endogenous DHT (the most potent androgen) testosterone (2nd most potent or androstenedione (3rd most potent) the combined amount of "androgen" generated because of Tren metabolism would be wholly inadequate to sustain a "normal" (one second errctions are not included) libido.
So absent supplementation with either testosterone or HCG your libido would approximate zip, IMO

 

[solo47]

You know, the Manwhore will beg to differ, but every generalization has its anomalies.

Solo

 

[Dr JIM]

Agreed Solo, I quess I should have defined "libido" with him in mind, lol

 

[leoclaw79]

True that. ^^^

 

[Sworder]

Sworder
There's no doubt Tren has an androgenic "DHT" effect but absent any significant quantities of endogenous DHT (the most potent androgen) testosterone (2nd most potent or androstenedione (3rd most potent) the combined amount of "androgen" generated because of Tren metabolism would be wholly inadequate to sustain a "normal" (one second errctions are not included) libido.
So absent supplementation with either testosterone or HCG your libido would approximate zip, IMO

Probably Interesting to hear people's opinion on the matter. I would honestly worry more about mental health though and that would be the main reason I wouldn't do it!

 

[Pericles]

I have always included test in any cycle I have ever done, but that is just me.

In theory, tren and deca, if you include HCG should work well. I have never really been a big fan of either drug (although I will admit that tren took my contest prep and look to another level).

 

[Sworder]

HCG should always be included anyway though imo! 1000IU should put you on the high range of normal based on my calculations(1000*230?â[testconversion rate 2.345-1.345] XYZbullsh1t), serious note though I think it would put you around 900ng/dl, ballpark figure..

 

[Pericles]

The problem w/ using HCG throughout is the fact that if you are doing 200IU 2-3 a week you will barely use 2kIUs when the HCG starts going bad (1 month).

Even w/ a scrip I am paying $85 for a bottle of HCG, so wasting 8kIUs is not something I want to do.

That is why I use HCG in the middle of a cycle (say a 3-4 month cycle) and in larger amounts (1kIU a day 3 times a week for a month).

 

[mands]

The problem w/ using HCG throughout is the fact that if you are doing 200IU 2-3 a week you will barely use 2kIUs when the HCG starts going bad (1 month).

Even w/ a scrip I am paying $85 for a bottle of HCG, so wasting 8kIUs is not something I want to do.

That is why I use HCG in the middle of a cycle (say a 3-4 month cycle) and in larger amounts (1kIU a day 3 times a week for a month).

Why the hell would you run 1000 iu's three days a week. You have no clue what the hell you are talking about. 250 iu's twice a week is plenty to take care of atrophy. If any one tells you different they are an idiot.

mands

 

[Pericles]

Someone needs to taper his androgens down.

The reason is because the above usage I laid out has worked extremely well for me for nearly 2 years. I only run the HCG for short periods at those dosages.

 

[solo47]

The problem w/ using HCG throughout is the fact that if you are doing 200IU 2-3 a week you will barely use 2kIUs when the HCG starts going bad (1 month).

Even w/ a scrip I am paying $85 for a bottle of HCG, so wasting 8kIUs is not something I want to do.

That is why I use HCG in the middle of a cycle (say a 3-4 month cycle) and in larger amounts (1kIU a day 3 times a week for a month).

Some reasonable thinking here. That last month must be great. I run 1000 iu 2x/wk on cycle and I can still feel the last hit, so it can't be going bad that fast (but I'm using 5k iu bottles only).

All those cars etc. and you're worried about paying $85 for a bottle of HCG? (Then again maybe your thrift makes such luxury purchases possible.)

Solo

 

[Sworder]

Low-dose human chorionic gonadotropi... [J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2005] - PubMed - NCBI
Low-dose human chorionic gonadotropin maintains intratesticular testosterone in normal men with testosterone-induced gonadotropin suppression.
Abstract

In previous studies of testicular biopsy tissue from healthy men, intratesticular testosterone (ITT) has been shown to be much higher than serum testosterone (T), suggesting that high ITT is needed relative to serum T for normal spermatogenesis in men. However, the quantitative relationship between ITT and spermatogenesis is not known. To begin to address this issue experimentally, we determined the dose-response relationship between human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG) and ITT to ascertain the minimum dose needed to maintain ITT in the normal range. Twenty-nine men with normal reproductive physiology were randomized to receive 200 mg T enanthate weekly in combination with either saline placebo or 125, 250, or 500 IU hCG every other day for 3 wk. ITT was assessed in testicular fluid obtained by percutaneous fine needle aspiration at baseline and at the end of treatment. Baseline serum T (14.1 nmol/liter) was 1.2% of ITT (1174 nmol/liter). LH and FSH were profoundly suppressed to 5% and 3% of baseline, respectively, and ITT was suppressed by 94% (1234 to 72 nmol/liter) in the T enanthate/placebo group. ITT increased linearly with increasing hCG dose (P < 0.001). Posttreatment ITT was 25% less than baseline in the 125 IU hCG group, 7% less than baseline in the 250 IU hCG group, and 26% greater than baseline in the 500 IU hCG group. These results demonstrate that relatively low dose hCG maintains ITT within the normal range in healthy men with gonadotropin suppression. Extensions of this study will allow determination of the ITT concentration threshold required to maintain spermatogenesis in man.

 

[mands]

Someone needs to taper his androgens down.

The reason is because the above usage I laid out has worked extremely well for me for nearly 2 years. I only run the HCG for short periods at those dosages.

haha Not really! That was funny though! I think my hostility comes from another thread where some jackass is recommending 1200mg Test Cyp a week for second cycle. I just don't understand why people take such high doses when the minimal works just fine including hcg. I see people running 1200mg-2000mg a test a week and can't believe what I read. I have been cycling for over 15 years on an off with probably a 2 year break here and there throughout. I have never taken over 600mg Test a week.

Back to the hcg! Why run that much? Solo how come you do? What is the benefits that you see? I know myself and others get great benefits at 250 iu's a twice a week. On another note. 85 dollars for 5000 iu's is cheap so you could waste some if need be. My thoughts are that is should last you a couple months if properly stored.

mands

 

[solo47]

haha Not really! That was funny though! I think my hostility comes from another thread where some jackass is recommending 1200mg Test Cyp a week for second cycle. I just don't understand why people take such high doses when the minimal works just fine including hcg. I see people running 1200mg-2000mg a test a week and can't believe what I read. I have been cycling for over 15 years on an off with probably a 2 year break here and there throughout. I have never taken over 600mg Test a week.

Back to the hcg! Why run that much? Solo how come you do? What is the benefits that you see? I know myself and others get great benefits at 250 iu's a twice a week. On another note. 85 dollars for 5000 iu's is cheap so you could waste some if need be. My thoughts are that is should last you a couple months if properly stored.

I may be an idiot, mands, for stating I run 1000 iu 2x a week. I meant to indicate I run 1000 iu per week in two 500 iu doses. But I don't think that makes me an idiot (as you stated anyone who runs over 250 iu 2x wk is), because I have to come this level after much experimentation. To tell the truth my LH & FSH are pretty well flatlined, probably permanently, so 1000 iu/wk is no bad thing at this stage of the game. (I like the sides, mainly libidinal, but it may be a while before I get back to that.)

Solo