The harm reduction question...

[readalot]

Let's see some testing instead of wasting time throwing hypotheticals

A reasonable example was submitted. and I did my best to fill out the potential space. If these hypotheticals are wasted time then why did you like the post with the initial example? Seriously, why?

This discussion definitely does support the case for ongoing testing given the lack of data and that ugl quality can fluctuate.

If sources, members already have the info please, I'm all ears.

 

[Wyn86]

A reasonable example was submitted. and I did my best to fill out the potential space. If these hypotheticals are wasted time then why did you like the post with the initial example? Seriously, why?

This discussion definitely does support the case for ongoing testing given the lack of data and that ugl quality can fluctuate.

If sources, members already have the info please, I'm all ears.

First of all, I’ll admit red herring was just a word a threw out there. I’m not doubting that in certain UGL products and in certain individuals there could be a problem. I appreciate the graphs you you made (very nicely done) and I concur that at VERY HIGH doses there could be an issue with certain solvents. Not a great analogy but as we know water is essential for human life, but drink too much and you can die. We had a character in another thread say he injected pond water during his days as a crazed addict, with no I’ll effects We need to remember that the body is somewhat resiliant to low doses. Also there is a fairly well established phenomenon called Hormesis which happen when a small foreign stress (low dose chemical in this case) actually gives the body a stimulatory benefit.

Anyway back to the details here…


I’d like to make a few points, I threw out DMA as a likely “culprit” because it’s used frequently for these type of synthesis processes. However upon further research it seems that methanol, ethanol，benzene, and pyridinein are the solvents ”usually” used for testC synthesis. Could you run graphs on those?

Also didn’t Jano say he can’t detect many of these solvents? So, who are we gonna get to do the analysis? I can try my contacts but I’m in the industrial chemical sector now.

 

[jayteelif87]

Good news is that vendors in the peptide space are starting to do sterility testing, so that is, at least, a small form of adoption of this concept. See attached from Jano.

This did lead to some peptide manufacturers publicly admitting that they do not synthesize in a sterile environment, and asking purchasers to use a .22 micron filter when using their products.

 

[readalot]

I’ll admit red herring was just a word a threw out there. I’m not doubting that in certain UGL products and in certain individuals there could be a problem. I appreciate the graphs you you made (very nicely done) and I concur that at VERY HIGH doses there could be an issue with certain solvents.

Thank you.

However upon further research it seems that methanol, ethanol，benzene, and pyridinein are the solvents ”usually” used for testC synthesis. Could you run graphs on those?

The solvents I selected above were supposed to be a sample of those used not just for test esters but for other AAS like oxandrolone or stanozolol.

For your reference:

MeOH (class 2, 30 mg/day PDE)

EtOH (class 3, essentially non toxic at any reasonable impurity level)

Benzene (class 1 carcinogen, 2 ppm or 0.02 mg/day - very similar PDE to 1,2-DCE)

Pyridine (class 2, 2 mg/day)

These lines should be easy to visualize on the graph provided. Will add.

Also didn’t Jano say he can’t detect many of these solvents? So, who are we gonna get to do the analysis? I can try my contacts but I’m in the industrial chemical sector now.

Yes. Hence, a quick and dirty total estimate was proposed using loss on drying plus Karl Fischer.

To do this right we would need a lab setup with appropriate GC / injection method. I highlighted such a lab in my linked post above from the Source QC thread. The challenge is these labs typically only take on legitimate pharma companies as clients (especially in US with controlled substance regs).

 

[readalot]

Good news is that vendors in the peptide space are starting to do sterility testing, so that is, at least, a small form of adoption of this concept. See attached from Jano.

This did lead to some peptide manufacturers publicly admitting that they do not synthesize in a sterile environment, and asking purchasers to use a .22 micron filter when using their products.

That's awesome news. Thank you for sharing.

Really great point to bring up (no sterile filtration before the lyophilization step).

 

[readalot]

Timed out so could not add above...

Lyophilization of Parenteral (7/93)

Lyophilization of Parenteral (7/93)

www.fda.gov

The lyophilization process generally includes the following steps:

Dissolving the drug and excipients in a suitable solvent, generally water for injection (WFI).
Sterilizing the bulk solution by passing it through a 0.22 micron bacteria-retentive filter.
Filling into individual sterile containers and partially stoppering the containers under aseptic conditions.
Transporting the partially stoppered containers to the lyophilizer and loading into the chamber under aseptic conditions.
Freezing the solution by placing the partially stoppered containers on cooled shelves in a freeze-drying chamber or pre-freezing in another chamber.
Applying a vacuum to the chamber and heating the shelves in order to evaporate the water from the frozen state.
Complete stoppering of the vials usually by hydraulic or screw rod stoppering mechanisms installed in the lyophilizers.

 

[BCBuilder]

You go out of your way to be a flaming cunt of a bully, but somehow he needs to be more likable? He doesn't need to do shit for you? There are two reasons you call him autistic. The first is that he's smarter than you are, and that makes you insecure. The second is that you're a person of low character. Neither of those things are going to change.

Some people could use some light bullying, in the past we called it ego checks but whatever

 

[DECLAN]

Ok lets get this rolling i will pitch in 20 bucks, i only do Cum in mouth though. Anything to get this rolling!

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Ok lets get this rolling i will pitch in 20 bucks, i only do Cum in mouth though. Anything to get this rolling!

yea, lets be real. Who the hell would take CIM from this guy

He isn't doing anything illegal. Why would he not even offer to BTC/Cashapp/Zelle it. He even said his gear is from compounding pharmacies.

 

[readalot]

Who the hell would take CIM from this guy

Lmmfao.

BTW just to be absolutely clear, I never offered to take anyone's money. I offered to donate money. I prefer to keep my online activity wrt AAS anonymous. Doesn't matter whether it is illegal or not. There is significant stigma attached to the use of AAS and my post count ain't low. Yes I offered even though I don't use any UGL cause I do care about you guys (even after all the hate). Love wins in the end or only kindness matters, something like that.

 

[Mishka]

I'd guess most people - including the vendors - don't know or even test the raws.

 

[JeffroCat]

Some people could use some light bullying, in the past we called it ego checks but whatever

I don't entirely disagree with you if I understand what you mean by light bullying. But some people cross the line into full bully and are relentless about it. To say nothing of the fact that @readalot ego has clearly been checked and that he has changed his behavior dramatically since joining and is still getting shit on for no good reason.

So @readalot has to change his behavior but @trtbuilder can just carry on like a scumbag with impunity? Nope. Not on my watch.

BTW. If someone were treating you like this I'd be shitting all over them too.

 

[DECLAN]

Good news is that vendors in the peptide space are starting to do sterility testing, so that is, at least, a small form of adoption of this concept. See attached from Jano.

This did lead to some peptide manufacturers publicly admitting that they do not synthesize in a sterile environment, and asking purchasers to use a .22 micron filter when using their products.

See, there are groups/people already moving forward to test other things aside from just purity or potency, but they mostly keep it in their circle which is understandable since they shell out the cash.

That’s why I believe there is not a huge amount of harmful stuff in this impurities or else they would’ve come out. That is a big if, since the most used testing company only did heavy metals test for a couple of times.

This is what we know so far. There are no cases of people getting sick from this impurities yet, and no one has identified what they are yet.

Hopefully, this will change. Until then lets keep enjoying our mystery items from China!

 

[readalot]

I'd guess most people - including the vendors - don't know or even test the raws.

That was what I observed here a few weeks ago. One of the sources was not aware if the additional testing offered by Jano.

 

[readalot]

I don't entirely disagree with you if I understand what you mean by light bullying. But some people cross the line into full bully and are relentless about it. To say nothing of the fact that @readalot ego has clearly been checked and that he has changed his behavior dramatically since joining and is still getting shit on for no good reason.

So @readalot has to change his behavior but @trtbuilder can just carry on like a scumbag with impunity? Nope. Not on my watch.

BTW. If someone were treating you like this I'd be shitting all over them too.

Just when I thought I was making a breakthrough with the lonewolf he turns up banned. Oh well, take care lonewolf.

Appreciate the character @JeffroCat .

 

[ChevChelios]

I'm always surprised by how much shit you catch for bringing this up. I'm sure the vast majority of people who use meso appreciate what you're trying to do. Some of the louder guys want to bust your balls about it but I think that's just a social thing they're doing. I can't think of a good reason why any individual would not want to talk about this.
In the near future I expect people to start talking more and more about the impurities. Right now I think as a culture we're still feeling that honeymoon joy of being able to order from a batch that's been tested at all. That still feels like a privilege for most of us. Expect the novelty to wear off in the near future, and people will start to talk more on vendor pages about why their deca is testing at 95% instead of 99% and "uhh..by the way, wtf else is in my oil besides deca?"
But yeah right now it seems like nobody wants to really get into it.
I still don't understand the pushback you're getting about it though. It seems disproportionate.

This. I think apart from people just joking around it’s a very new thing to even be able to check how much gear is in your gear without having to do everything independently (still the best idea ofc but I mean in the sense that the above guy said), it’s slowly hopefully going to start becoming more n more well done both quality n business wise as imo with all the knowledge we have available we could, with the right funding, go to having stuff getting made at pretty much pharma level real soon, n I don’t mean potency I mean quality control/mechanics/industrial production etc… idk maybe that’s wishful thinking on my part but stuff is going in a good direction at least from what I can tell compared to shit even a decade ago.

Ofc all of this is dependent on us the users staying on top of shit but also on the producers stepping their game up (which many have), then as I mentioned above of some rich user would be smart enough to invest in a company he believes in imo that could propel em very high (yes due to legality it will always be more difficult than if it were something else, but remember that many highly illegal drugs are being made with better than pharma equipment, for example Dutch MDMA is produced in factories that are fkin huge idk the way they avoid LE but I’m just saying it is doable that way too, we just need some sort of Gus Fring n Walter White of AAS ahah).

As always it’s all dependent on the good communication between user and supplier and a very strong will on both sides to make everything way better than it currently is (tbh I don’t mind how it is at all rn but still like quoted stuff can n always should improve through time).

Sorry for the rant I just find these topics very interesting and have previous experience with certain themes discussed, although not with AAS, much more complex n harmful stuff than what we like here, so that’s why I have great faith in the fact stuff could be done even better than it currently is

 

[ChevChelios]

That was what I observed here a few weeks ago. One of the sources was not aware if the additional testing offered by Jano.

That’s ridiculous though, it’s on the src to know something as basic as that, shit they should have their own Jano for each source tbh (and do a testing on every single batch not just every now n then).

But yeah a src not knowing of that is worrying as even the forum noobs like me know bout that, same with many idiots on Reddit, so I’m hoping it was some wannabe bathtub brewer n not an actual ’serious’ source, as that’s like trying to sell crack but not knowing what bicarbonate is ahah

 

[lukiss96]

To say nothing of the fact that @readalot ego has clearly been checked and that he has changed his behavior dramatically since joining and is still getting shit on for no good reason.

Actually, he didn't fit in in to Meso at first. I have seen his work on some other forum and he posted same technical stuff. I think here people thought he's just another smartass coming from youtube or something similar and spreading/parroting same info all over. When he defended himself a group of individuals would gang up on him. Now that the times are changing here it is easier to have your opinion heard and if you can prove it with facts, you can establish yourself. I believe @readalot is in the progress still, but he makes some important and unique yet weird and interesting points. This place is constantly evolving and is not so underground anymore to hear other people talk new or yet to be explored things that nobody used to care about in the past.

 

[ChevChelios]

Actually, he didn't fit in in to Meso at first. I have seen his work on some other forum and he posted same technical stuff. I think here people thought he's just another smartass coming from youtube or something similar and spreading/parroting same info all over. When he defended himself a group of individuals would gang up on him. Now that the times are changing here it is easier to have your opinion heard and if you can prove it with facts, you can establish yourself. I believe @readalot is in the progress still, but he makes some important and unique yet weird and interesting points. This place is constantly evolving and is not so underground anymore to hear other people talk new or yet to be explored things that nobody used to care about in the past.

Yeah I’m new here so didn’t know what his deal was but tbh for all of us more bro science based guys imo it’s good to have a couple guys like him n TypeIIx to even out some of the shit with actual studies etc… ofc at first it can seem like just another one of em randoms who love to quote shit but don’t do anything in practice but as far as ik he ain’t that guy both of em have usually offered pretty interesting info (regardless of what the other people might have read or not read or if it was of interest to others).

Just like anything else it’s important to have some sort of balance n as long as he doesn’t start to quote that fkin study that makes people think taking roids n sitting on yo ass makes you gain more muscle than a natty who lifts (omg the fkin study is so misquoted n it was done in such a shitty way I’m still getting notifications from Reddit for telling some people that they are retarded like months ago) I’m more than happy to have him n others post their finds or research on the forum

 

[readalot]

Assuming a vendor tests raws and gets back, for example, 90% purity, you’re ok with the vendor adjusting the raws used in the brew so that the final oil reaches the advertised mg/ml dose? That’s the only thing that matters to you?

ironlion-lab

thinksteroids.com

~90% purity raw. GTG, no?