thyroid bloodwork help t4 hgh related

[Mighty-mouse]

So for a person running GH almost all year you suggest to use T4 the whole time? At what dosage? Don't know man it seems to me a bit to much. Maybe run it the first 6-8 weeks ok but the whole GH run?

I wouldn’t recommend a dosage I would recommend getting bloodwork every other month and adjusting your dosage so your T4 stays in the normal range.

I have ran T4 for a year before and once off growth my levels returned to normal.

But, yes if I’m running growth I will take T4 to keep my levels in the normal range so I’m not shorting my T3 conversion

 

[FR0Z3N_B0MB3RRR]

So for a person running GH almost all year you suggest to use T4 the whole time? At what dosage? Don't know man it seems to me a bit to much. Maybe run it the first 6-8 weeks ok but the whole GH run?

Check your T4 level whenever you wanna (maybe after the time you said T4 level normalizes) and decide if it’s needed... simple

 

[Sampei]

I'm skeptical, I'll do bloodwork soon after more then 5 months on HGH so we will see.

Still probably prefer to rip less benefit and avoid one more drugs to take.

 

[Sampei]

I wouldn’t recommend a dosage I would recommend getting bloodwork every other month and adjusting your dosage so your T4 stays in the normal range.

I have ran T4 for a year before and once off growth my levels returned to normal.

But, yes if I’m running growth I will take T4 to keep my levels in the normal range so I’m not shorting my T3 conversion

GH increases circulating concentrations of T3 while decreasing those of T4. ...GH is not influencing the secretion of T3 and T4 but rather influencing peripheral 5- and/or 5' -monodeiodinase activity and the metabolism of the thyroid hormones and hence the conversion of T4 to T3 (the active form of the hormone)." - Growth Hormone, Stephen Harvey, CRC 1995, p.424


"Growth hormone treatment reduces T4 secretion and affects the peripheral metabolism of thyroid hormones resulting in an increase of T3..." - The effect of growth hormone on the plasma levels of T4, free-T4, T3, reverse T3 and TBG in hypopituitary patients, G. Gács, Acta Endocrinologica, Vol 96, Issue 4, 475-479


Keep in mind that most studies focus on people with under-performing thyroids so physiological supplementation has the effect of restoring GH release, while pharmacological doses do not illicit supranormal GH concentrations.





T3 may inhibit GHRH-induced GH release at the pituitary (multiple mechanisms) while T4 shouldn't have an inhibitory effect (i.e. it doesn't effect somatostatin).





So my opinion is that a normal person does not need thyroid supplementation w/ GH or GH releasers. That T3 supplementation may do more harm then good. If you feel the need to supplement with a thyroid hormone T4 would seem to provide more benefit.


But still, your level of T4 are just low because your body is converting more T4 to T3 so the thyroid will reduce the output just to mantain things stable. The fatloss effect you get is just from supplementing more T4, HGH is working with or without T4 and no it's not needed to use T4 on HGH. It's possible to use it? Yeah sure, it will increase fat burning effect? Probably of course it's a thyroid medication but you can clearly use HGH alone and be healthy.

If you want more you use T4 same as increasjng dosages of AAS etc.

 

[Mighty-mouse]

GH increases circulating concentrations of T3 while decreasing those of T4. ...GH is not influencing the secretion of T3 and T4 but rather influencing peripheral 5- and/or 5' -monodeiodinase activity and the metabolism of the thyroid hormones and hence the conversion of T4 to T3 (the active form of the hormone)." - Growth Hormone, Stephen Harvey, CRC 1995, p.424


"Growth hormone treatment reduces T4 secretion and affects the peripheral metabolism of thyroid hormones resulting in an increase of T3..." - The effect of growth hormone on the plasma levels of T4, free-T4, T3, reverse T3 and TBG in hypopituitary patients, G. Gács, Acta Endocrinologica, Vol 96, Issue 4, 475-479


Keep in mind that most studies focus on people with under-performing thyroids so physiological supplementation has the effect of restoring GH release, while pharmacological doses do not illicit supranormal GH concentrations.





T3 may inhibit GHRH-induced GH release at the pituitary (multiple mechanisms) while T4 shouldn't have an inhibitory effect (i.e. it doesn't effect somatostatin).





So my opinion is that a normal person does not need thyroid supplementation w/ GH or GH releasers. That T3 supplementation may do more harm then good. If you feel the need to supplement with a thyroid hormone T4 would seem to provide more benefit.


But still, your level of T4 are just low because your body is converting more T4 to T3 so the thyroid will reduce the output just to mantain things stable. The fatloss effect you get is just from supplementing more T4, HGH is working with or without T4 and no it's not needed to use T4 on HGH. It's possible to use it? Yeah sure, it will increase fat burning effect? Probably of course it's a thyroid medication but you can clearly use HGH alone and be healthy.

If you want more you use T4 same as increasjng dosages of AAS etc.

I said the exact same thing in less than 227 paragraphs bud and in rearms the average joe could understand ......

Simple layman terms

On growth while taking T4 = increased T3 levels which accelerate your metabolism and helps drop BF with substantial amount of T4 for your enzymes to convert to more T3

On growth no T4 = your deiodinases enzymes are converting T4 to T3 at a highly accelerated pace (especially while sleeping from a couple things I read yesterday) and, with no T4 added your T3 levels only get so elevated.

Therefore you are inhibiting the total effect or potential of what growth you are taking.

This was my test I had 1 month ago I was on 100mcg of T4 and as you see I was in the low normal. I was on 6iu pinned sub Q mornings I believe






Last test 2 weeks ago I pulled a 353 pinning 4iu IM delts running 50mcgs T4 but, that was just a igf test not a body panel. I will do my body panel in a few weeks to check my thyroid to see if it’s recovered because I’m off growth.

Don’t have my notebook with me as I’m out of country right now but all that is to the beat of my knowledge

 

[LittleD90]

I said the exact same thing in less than 227 paragraphs bud and in rearms the average joe could understand ......

Simple layman terms

On growth while taking T4 = increased T3 levels which accelerate your metabolism and helps drop BF with substantial amount of T4 for your enzymes to convert to more T3

On growth no T4 = your deiodinases enzymes are converting T4 to T3 at a highly accelerated pace (especially while sleeping from a couple things I read yesterday) and, with no T4 added your T3 levels only get so elevated.

Therefore you are inhibiting the total effect or potential of what growth you are taking.

This was my test I had 1 month ago I was on 100mcg of T4 and as you see I was in the low normal. I was on 6iu pinned sub Q mornings I believe
View attachment 144077

View attachment 144079



Last test 2 weeks ago I pulled a 353 pinning 4iu IM delts running 50mcgs T4 but, that was just a igf test not a body panel. I will do my body panel in a few weeks to check my thyroid to see if it’s recovered because I’m off growth.

Don’t have my notebook with me as I’m out of country right now but all that is to the beat of my knowledge

Fuck makes me think I need to run it but my bloods looked weird last time I got them but I’m gonna pull again at the 14 week mark and see
Does the total t 4 and t3 matter ? Or is it just the free?
Both my totals were really low but free t4 was norm and free t3 high

 

[FR0Z3N_B0MB3RRR]

#t4matters

 

[Mighty-mouse]

Fuck makes me think I need to run it but my bloods looked weird last time I got them but I’m gonna pull again at the 14 week mark and see
Does the total t 4 and t3 matter ? Or is it just the free?
Both my totals were really low but free t4 was norm and free t3 high

A doc will use your free T4 levels to diagnose your thyroid if you have issues. Bad thyroid you will have off level results good thyroid it will be in range most of the time.

Free T4 is the amount of hormone not bound and available for your body.

When running growth I always just monitor the T3 T4 levels and not free unless it gets out of line.

I will add; consuming a DEA supplement should help with your conversion rate of T4 to T3 and if your diet is correct when your thyroid is kicking on all cylinders you will see great results!

 

[Sampei]

I said the exact same thing in less than 227 paragraphs bud and in rearms the average joe could understand ......

Simple layman terms

On growth while taking T4 = increased T3 levels which accelerate your metabolism and helps drop BF with substantial amount of T4 for your enzymes to convert to more T3

On growth no T4 = your deiodinases enzymes are converting T4 to T3 at a highly accelerated pace (especially while sleeping from a couple things I read yesterday) and, with no T4 added your T3 levels only get so elevated.

Therefore you are inhibiting the total effect or potential of what growth you are taking.

This was my test I had 1 month ago I was on 100mcg of T4 and as you see I was in the low normal. I was on 6iu pinned sub Q mornings I believe
View attachment 144077

View attachment 144079



Last test 2 weeks ago I pulled a 353 pinning 4iu IM delts running 50mcgs T4 but, that was just a igf test not a body panel. I will do my body panel in a few weeks to check my thyroid to see if it’s recovered because I’m off growth.

Don’t have my notebook with me as I’m out of country right now but all that is to the beat of my knowledge

Man you are not inhibiting the potential of growth while not taking T4, you are just achieving whatever a person would achieve if it was not on growth and took T3.

what GH allow you is to use T4 instead of T3 if you want to increase fat burn, T4 without growth would be wasted because your body would not be able to convert to T3 the excess T4 supplied, instead with GH and the conversion speed up you can utilize it properly, without GH you would use T3 with GH you use T4 but in the end what you are doing is just supplying thyroid hormone to speed up metabolism and burn more fat being close to hyperthyroidism.

What I'm against is the concept that YOU need t4 during hgh use because your t4 levels are low and that's not good etc. that's just bullshit, T4 level are low because there is already an increase in t3 utake and t3 levels and the body doesn't want to increase it even further and so decrease t4 production to get back to homeostasis. The body will always try to balance things out.

Do you want to burn more fat and speed up your thyroid? sure use T4. same as if you were on AAS and decided to use T3.

growth effect will still work with or without t4 no matter what, as the studies have clearly shown there is no need for a healthy individual to supplement t4 because from a blood panel you see it low.... there is the necessity to do it IF you want to burn more fat speeding up your thyroids (and we all know the possible side effect as well of increased T3 right?).

 

[Mighty-mouse]

Man you are not inhibiting the potential of growth while not taking T4, you are just achieving whatever a person would achieve if it was not on growth and took T3.

what GH allow you is to use T4 instead of T3 if you want to increase fat burn, T4 without growth would be wasted because your body would not be able to convert to T3 the excess T4 supplied, instead with GH and the conversion speed up you can utilize it properly, without GH you would use T3 with GH you use T4 but in the end what you are doing is just supplying thyroid hormone to speed up metabolism and burn more fat being close to hyperthyroidism.

What I'm against is the concept that YOU need t4 during hgh use because your t4 levels are low and that's not good etc. that's just bullshit, T4 level are low because there is already an increase in t3 utake and t3 levels and the body doesn't want to increase it even further and so decrease t4 production to get back to homeostasis. The body will always try to balance things out.

Do you want to burn more fat and speed up your thyroid? sure use T4. same as if you were on AAS and decided to use T3.

growth effect will still work with or without t4 no matter what, as the studies have clearly shown there is no need for a healthy individual to supplement t4 because from a blood panel you see it low.... there is the necessity to do it IF you want to burn more fat speeding up your thyroids (and we all know the possible side effect as well of increased T3 right?).

No where did I say growth will NOT work if you do not use T4. I said you are inhibiting the full potential of exogenous growth hormone if you are not using T4.

Not taking growth and just consuming T3 will NOT get you the same results as taking growth and running T4. Simple fact is ...... you are taking growth so your igf-1 levels are elevated substantially. (I think I know the analogy you were trying to use but, that’s apples and oranges) -unless I misunderstood you

T3 is around 3.5-4X more active in your system regulating heart rate metabolism body temp etc

T4 is a precursor (we all know) and has very little activity on those function I mentioned early compared to T3 even on growth.

I’m saying by all means use growth without T4 you will get great results as long as your diets right. But, adding T4 and having a great diet will be beneficial to your outcome of the hgh run.

It’s like why I take provi.... I want higher free testosterone while running test. I don’t want my body to balance it out so I manipulate it with medication the same goes with the thyroid.

 

[Sampei]

No where did I say growth will NOT work if you do not use T4. I said you are inhibiting the full potential of exogenous growth hormone if you are not using T4.

Not taking growth and just consuming T3 will NOT get you the same results as taking growth and running T4. Simple fact is ...... you are taking growth so your igf-1 levels are elevated substantially. (I think I know the analogy you were trying to use but, that’s apples and oranges) -unless I misunderstood you

T3 is around 3.5-4X more active in your system regulating heart rate metabolism body temp etc

T4 is a precursor (we all know) and has very little activity on those function I mentioned early compared to T3 even on growth.

I’m saying by all means use growth without T4 you will get great results as long as your diets right. But, adding T4 and having a great diet will be beneficial to your outcome of the hgh run.

It’s like why I take provi.... I want higher free testosterone while running test. I don’t want my body to balance it out so I manipulate it with medication the same goes with the thyroid.

Man if you check your bloods on proviron you will see that the effect on shgb is only temporary your body will balance it out.

 

[Mighty-mouse]

Man if you check your bloods on proviron you will see that the effect on shgb is only temporary your body will balance it out.

Yes but adding in T4 while on growth and with a high T3 level 25 mg daily keep me around 600-800 in a 24 hr period .....

See where this is going lol it all goes back to your thyroid and high T3 which basically regulates almost everything in your body including shgb

Edit
I don’t high dose my aas. I have never went above 300mg the past 6-7 years although I adjust my growth for testing purposes I stay between 3-6 iu’s which keeps my igf around 400-720 depending on the pin schedule. I only touched masteron once in the past 4 yrs but just run test growth provi and T4

 

[BigJ89]

Here are my numbers from 4iu GH am fasted about two months on. Not sure if this proves either argument. This is with no T4 supplementation

 

[Sampei]

Here are my numbers from 4iu GH am fasted about two months on. Not sure if this proves either argument. This is with no T4 supplementation

It proves that you don't need any supplementation of T4 because your thyroid is perfectly in range but if you want to supplement it you will of course gain from the increased conversion of T4 into T3.

Do you have free T3? Would be nice to see if it's out of range or not.

 

[Mighty-mouse]

With those numbers I wouldn’t touch T4

 

[BigJ89]

With those numbers I wouldn’t touch T4

You don’t think I could benefit from it?

 

[Mighty-mouse]

You don’t think I could benefit from it?

Man just looking at your free T4 I would say you would t see a noticeable difference your high normal on all your T4 levels and T3 is where u want it.

Kind of like if it isn’t broke don’t fix it.

 

[BigJ89]

Man just looking at your free T4 I would say you would t see a noticeable difference your high normal on all your T4 levels and T3 is where u want it.

Kind of like if it isn’t broke don’t fix it.

I appreciate the advice. I jumped the gun before I got the results back and order some T4, assuming I would need it. Would there be any harm in adding it for a week or two and seeing if it makes any difference? In terms of Loss of BF

 

[Mighty-mouse]

I appreciate the advice. I jumped the gun before I got the results back and order some T4, assuming I would need it. Would there be any harm in adding it for a week or two and seeing if it makes any difference? In terms of Loss of BF

I myself would keep em. Keep monitoring bloods and if they dip then run em. But I don’t see any reason too. Unless u want to test it -IMO not worth messing up how your thyroid is acting right now.

 

[BigJ89]

I myself would keep em. Keep monitoring bloods and if they dip then run em. But I don’t see any reason too. Unless u want to test it -IMO not worth messing up how your thyroid is acting right now.

If I was too test it, how long on T4 should I wait before drawing?