Too much Primo?? Hair is thinning!!!

Shoobiedoubie

New Member
I ran a 12 week cycle of

3 weeks
300 test / 180 primo

4 weeks
500 test / 300 primo

5 weeks
500 test / 300 primo / 180 npp

Gains were amazing, best cycle ever. Was my first one with additional compunds besides just test.

Starting a new cycle

7 weeks
300 test / 300 primo

4 weeks
500 test / 500 primo / anavar 30mg per day (current)

And HOLY SHIT my hair is thinning! Mexican/Guatemalan background no family history of balding and have always had thick hair, is the primo dose too high?
 
This new cycle i was going to run for 20 weeks and add the npp in a couple weeks after 6 weeks of 500/500 and getting bloodwork. BTW no hair loss or anything like that last time. Cruised for 6 weeks on 180mg of test. Bloods looked good so decided to run it back.
 
.25mg dutasteride every 5 days with topical minoxidil foam from Costco once daily.
I'm not prone to mpb or shedding on trt or high test but when I ran test/mast/tren/var I started to shed and this stopped it with no side effects. Ghoul does it slightly different with .25mg finasteride daily plus 5mg(or was it 10mg?) oral minoxidil daily
 
Some people might need to do more than what I did, but using a 2% Ketoconazole shampoo EOD stopped my Primo shedding completely.
 
FFS use the clinically proven most effective protocol. Boring, slow, but it works (to varying degrees, as well as anything can) for every case of MBP.

Fin (or Dut if necessary, rare) and oral Minoxidil. That does 95% of heavy lifting of anti-balding treatment.

After the initial shed period, if you're lucky, within 6 months of consistant use, you'll reverse most of the damage,

If you want to go further, 2x week 2% Ketoconozole shampoo left in for 5 minutes will help somewhat.

Beyond that, all the "reinventing the wheel" stuff that's borne of desperation and panic, micro needling, laser caps, RU, etc offer diminishing returns.

Two pills daily is cheap, easy, simple, effective and the routine you're most likely to stick to in the long term, which it's important since long term consistency is crucial.
 
my hair started thinning like 5 weeks into my first cycle of just test only and continues to shed now, on nothing at all.

If its gonna go its gonna go, you can delay a little bit with compound selection and minox/fina, but if you are prone to shedding, pretty much everything is gonna cause at least some
 
Its hard to say what its from but maybe drop the primo back down to 300mg and see if that helps. Ive heard fguys getting shedding on anavar too.
 
FFS use the clinically proven most effective protocol. Boring, slow, but it works (to varying degrees, as well as anything can) for every case of MBP.

Fin (or Dut if necessary, rare) and oral Minoxidil. That does 95% of heavy lifting of anti-balding treatment.

After the initial shed period, if you're lucky, within 6 months of consistant use, you'll reverse most of the damage,

If you want to go further, 2x week 2% Ketoconozole shampoo left in for 5 minutes will help somewhat.

Beyond that, all the "reinventing the wheel" stuff that's borne of desperation and panic, micro needling, laser caps, RU, etc offer diminishing returns.

Two pills daily is cheap, easy, simple, effective and the routine you're most likely to stick to in the long term, which it's important since long term consistency is crucial.
same protocol for shedding as me and I dont lose any hair on even harsh compounds or lots of test.
 
same protocol for shedding as me and I dont lose any hair on even harsh compounds or lots of test.
@Ghoul Only thing about this is that ive read on a couple of these forums that nandrolone can casue issues with finasteride. Really like how i felt on the npp. You guys have experience running a nandrolone and finasteride or dutasteride?
 
FFS use the clinically proven most effective protocol. Boring, slow, but it works (to varying degrees, as well as anything can) for every case of MBP.

Fin (or Dut if necessary, rare) and oral Minoxidil. That does 95% of heavy lifting of anti-balding treatment.

After the initial shed period, if you're lucky, within 6 months of consistant use, you'll reverse most of the damage,

If you want to go further, 2x week 2% Ketoconozole shampoo left in for 5 minutes will help somewhat.

Beyond that, all the "reinventing the wheel" stuff that's borne of desperation and panic, micro needling, laser caps, RU, etc offer diminishing returns.

Two pills daily is cheap, easy, simple, effective and the routine you're most likely to stick to in the long term, which it's important since long term consistency is crucial.
How do you feel about heart health on 5mg oral Minnox?
 
How do you feel about heart health on 5mg oral Minnox?

It's a common BP med that's been in use worldwide for 60 years, frequently titrated up to 40mg for maintainance of BP, with doses up to 100mg. It's not a "high risk" med at those doses, but there are better alternatives for hypertension now.

While there are many studies of the safety of low dose for hair loss, this is the largest covering 1400 patients.


2.5mg - 5mg seems pretty safe to me:

"No life-threatening adverse effects were observed."

"Low dose oral minoxidil has a good safety profile as a treatment for hair loss. Systemic adverse effects were infrequent and only 1.7% of patients discontinued treatment owing to adverse effects."

(I'm sure I don't need to write a disclaimer about people with existing heart issues, a known allergic reaction to minoxidil, extreme preexisting edema, etc. I always presume common sense is a given).
 
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This might be too obvious to say, but I haven't seen it mentioned yet so I'll add it just in case.

5ARIs like Fin and Dutasteride won't protect you against hair loss from Primo and Var. All these drugs do is compete with androgens to bind the 5AR enzyme. But Primo and Var don't interact with 5AR in any meaningful way, so Fin/Dut only protect you from your test base converting to DHT, not your Primo/Var. Primo/Var don't convert into any other meaningfully active metabolites the way test does with DHT/E2. So you can't manipulate that aspect and are stuck dealing with Primo/Var in their "final form."

If you suspect that Primo is accelerating hair loss, you would need to use a topical anti-androgen to compete with the Primo for binding to your scalp androgen receptors. These are drugs like

RU58841Limited human testing; experimental; thought to be the most effective of the bunch. Kinda sketchy.
Pyrilutamide (KX-826)FDA approved for OTC sale as a cosmeceutical. Decent human testing that suggests reasonable efficacy, but some question marks do arise where it performed similar to placebo at some points.
Clascoterone (Breezula)FDA approved for acne (Winlevi), pre-approval for androgenic alopecia. Haven't looked into efficacy for AGA.
Fluridil (Eucapil)OTC in some EU countries. Never heard of it being used in US.


If you're not trying to go nuclear and take several drugs, the methodology @Ghoul is recommending is sound. Take a 5ARI, and that'll neutralize the DHT aspect of your test base, which significantly lower your total androgenic load on your scalp. The minoxidil will help to slowly regrow part of what you've lost since puberty.

But you wanna have "full coverage," (protect against Primo and other AAS besides test) ya gotta add a topical AA as well. The most effective (but def the most sketchy) is RU58841, and the least sketchy but not-likely-as-effective-as-RU option (FDA approved for OTC sale) is KX-826, which you can buy directly from the pharma company that made it, Kintor. Google it, I think Koshine is the store they sell it from. On Amazon too. Kinda expensive, but worth it if you don't wanna dip into the RU58841 experimentation.

However, legit miniaturization (the permanent, unreversible death of hair follicles) is unlikely to be noticeable so quickly and discretely even on a 12-week cycle. So it might just be the AI effects of Primo making your hair look weak and brittle from low e2. Fortunately, if this is the case, your hair will return to normal once your e2 normalizes. There's also telogen effluvium, which is temporary hair shedding from stress and shit like that, which as I understand it, is pretty common on cycle.

So most likely, this thinning you're noticing is probably temporary. But if you care about your hair, and you have any reason to believe you're genetically predisposed to male pattern baldness (most hispanic men are to some degree), then this is a good wake-up call to start figuring out how to protect yourself, especially if you plan to blast into the future.

Good luck bro.
 
This might be too obvious to say, but I haven't seen it mentioned yet so I'll add it just in case.

5ARIs like Fin and Dutasteride won't protect you against hair loss from Primo and Var. All these drugs do is compete with androgens to bind the 5AR enzyme. But Primo and Var don't interact with 5AR in any meaningful way, so Fin/Dut only protect you from your test base converting to DHT, not your Primo/Var. Primo/Var don't convert into any other meaningfully active metabolites the way test does with DHT/E2. So you can't manipulate that aspect and are stuck dealing with Primo/Var in their "final form."

If you suspect that Primo is accelerating hair loss, you would need to use a topical anti-androgen to compete with the Primo for binding to your scalp androgen receptors. These are drugs like

RU58841Limited human testing; experimental; thought to be the most effective of the bunch. Kinda sketchy.
Pyrilutamide (KX-826)FDA approved for OTC sale as a cosmeceutical. Decent human testing that suggests reasonable efficacy, but some question marks do arise where it performed similar to placebo at some points.
Clascoterone (Breezula)FDA approved for acne (Winlevi), pre-approval for androgenic alopecia. Haven't looked into efficacy for AGA.
Fluridil (Eucapil)OTC in some EU countries. Never heard of it being used in US.


If you're not trying to go nuclear and take several drugs, the methodology @Ghoul is recommending is sound. Take a 5ARI, and that'll neutralize the DHT aspect of your test base, which significantly lower your total androgenic load on your scalp. The minoxidil will help to slowly regrow part of what you've lost since puberty.

But you wanna have "full coverage," (protect against Primo and other AAS besides test) ya gotta add a topical AA as well. The most effective (but def the most sketchy) is RU58841, and the least sketchy but not-likely-as-effective-as-RU option (FDA approved for OTC sale) is KX-826, which you can buy directly from the pharma company that made it, Kintor. Google it, I think Koshine is the store they sell it from. On Amazon too. Kinda expensive, but worth it if you don't wanna dip into the RU58841 experimentation.

However, legit miniaturization (the permanent, unreversible death of hair follicles) is unlikely to be noticeable so quickly and discretely even on a 12-week cycle. So it might just be the AI effects of Primo making your hair look weak and brittle from low e2. Fortunately, if this is the case, your hair will return to normal once your e2 normalizes. There's also telogen effluvium, which is temporary hair shedding from stress and shit like that, which as I understand it, is pretty common on cycle.

So most likely, this thinning you're noticing is probably temporary. But if you care about your hair, and you have any reason to believe you're genetically predisposed to male pattern baldness (most hispanic men are to some degree), then this is a good wake-up call to start figuring out how to protect yourself, especially if you plan to blast into the future.

Good luck bro.

All good points, and as most men experience MBP long term from their normal levels of DHT Fin lowers that base level before any DHT derived AAS adds to it so it'll certainly help to some degree, and should be part of long term hair protection.

That said, I find conflicting info regarding whether Primo directly hits the receptors or increases DHT conversion. I'm surprised there's uncertainty about this, I'd think it'd be simple to establish.

On that note it got me thinking about 5-AR conversion. Type one 5-AR conversion takes place directly in the follicle, the worst possible place for DHT to be, DHT is also found in high levels in scalp sebum, so if you have oily hair, that worsens it by spreading it from follicle to follicle. Like applying topical DHT to your scalp, lol.

Type one conversion is only inhibited by Dutasteride (type one and two 5-AR inhibitor), not Finasteride (type two 5-AR inhibitor only).

Dutasteride is only in .5mg capsules (in the US), which may be way too much, crashing DHT. As a gel filled capsule you can't split it to reduce the dose. It was made that way due to difficulty in absorbing the drug.

There are more modern formulations in solid tabs available from India pharma, so it may be possible to cut those for a reduced dose that won't crash DHT, but be more effective against hair loss. The tablets use a more absorbable form of Dutasteride along with absorption enhancers to make a solid tab feasible.

IMG_0560.webp
 
For what it's worth, there is some decent evidence that due to the 5-AR types that are almost always highly expressed in prostate cancer (1 and 3), dutasteride has some benefits over finasteride when it comes to the additional benefit of prostate cancer prevention.

Big fan of 5-AR inhibitors in general, especially dutasteride, thing most of us get more than enough androgen stimulation through the things we're putting in our body! Have noticed nothing but great effects since starting with dutasteride. Even less acne (though I've never been prone to it), zero oily skin, zero shedding/even some regrowth, calmer mood, zero impact to libido.

Side effects are certainly real for some (though I think overblown for 90%), but don't think they deserve anywhere near the demonization they get.
 
Don't want boner problems. I'd rather be bald.
The amount of people who aren’t hypogondal/already depressed/fat and have libido issues on a 5-AR inhibitor are incredibly small, certainly less than the % of people that have issues with deca and yet there’s no shortage of people giving that a go. There is also simply zero plausible explanation for the so-called post finasteride syndrome where symptoms stick around despite every hormone returning to normal.

It’s obviously your choice to make, but the risk simply isn’t what people make it out to be especially for our user population. (Not to mention the benefits beyond hair loss like prostate cancer prevention, less LVH and RHR increase from DHT’s effect on on the heart, etc)
 
The amount of people who aren’t hypogondal/already depressed/fat and have libido issues on a 5-AR inhibitor are incredibly small, certainly less than the % of people that have issues with deca and yet there’s no shortage of people giving that a go. There is also simply zero plausible explanation for the so-called post finasteride syndrome where symptoms stick around despite every hormone returning to normal.

It’s obviously your choice to make, but the risk simply isn’t what people make it out to be especially for our user population. (Not to mention the benefits beyond hair loss like prostate cancer prevention, less LVH and RHR increase from DHT’s effect on on the heart, etc)

There are some hardcore defenders of oral fina/duta. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. Topicals work well for me.
 
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