Train till failure ?

[DECLAN]

The problem is there are only a few people who can relate training to failure. I bet most guys here can count with their fingers the times they can honestly say they trained to failure, with the few exceptions of course.

It takes time and experience to be able to learn to lif balls out and find the volume to exert what is the effort needed to reach utter failure.

I can honestly say I only did it a few times when I had a training partner who I trust to spot me exclusively through out the lifting sessions. And yeah it was leg day lol.

 

[Titan18]

The problem is there are only a few people who can relate training to failure. I bet most guys here can count with their fingers the times they can honestly say they trained to failure, with the few exceptions of course.

It takes time and experience to be able to learn to lif balls out and find the volume to exert what is the effort needed to reach utter failure.

I can honestly say I only did it a few times when I had a training partner who I trust to spot me exclusively through out the lifting sessions. And yeah it was leg day lol.

This is an important point. You really do have to do balls out training and see what true failure is before even considering any type of reps in reserve training otherwise you will have have guys who think they are 3 reps from failure but are actually 7 or 8 reps from failure.

 

[3Th3osis3]

Failure essencial
Time under tension essential
Progressive overload essential

Under 600mg anabolics and you won't stop growing

 

[Elvis755]

I listen to the blood sweat and gear podcast on YouTube, recently they’ve had a couple older competitors on who have switched away from failure/progressive overload training to more like a RIR style and gotten good results. I’m not sure exactly but I think Nick Walker this season is working with renaissance periodization which is more volumed based training close to failure. Idk. When I got into lifting I was big into Dorian Yates and liked the low volume high intensity stuff. I think a lot of people now watch someone like Justin shier on Instagram where his sets look effortless and don’t realize how hard he’s actually pushing because his form is so good. My gym has a lot of younger people working out like they’re half asleep with perfect form and they’re tiny. Because they’re missing the intensity piece

 

[tripod3000]

I train until task failure, so if I am not able to complete another repetition without compromising form, I keep the volume moderate to low, 2 working sets for most exercises

 

[goodstuffbro]

It's also important which order you train some muscles, if you do multi-joint exercises in the wrong order you will not be able to train properly others,
example, for me some days when I train shoulders till failure, I can't do properly biceps curls in the same session

 

[AlexDavis43]

There are new studies on this all the time. Some say no difference, others favor non-failure training.

In my opinion: in practice, if you don't have a lot of time per week and can do it safely, higher intensity fits the bill. Otherwise non-failure higher volume works.

Whatever works better with your schedule and preferences. You're gonna work hard either way.

 

[ThinkDeroid]

People write here about "it must be heavy weights, not light weights" - not true, The Science says failure, regardless if achieved by heavy weights or light weights. And for me personally, some exercises give a much better feeling with light weights, ie. seated incline curls. For me as a boomer safety profile also matters, it's easier to do 25x reps of X light weight with very good form than 10x reps of Y heavy weights with very good form.

 

[Plate Smacker]

Hey guys, do you do the classic ego lift till failure every set or the “science” way?

For people juicing

My guess is, and we will see this more often due to his rise in popularity... is a miss interpretation of Sam Sulek's mild trolling done in his initial videos. "Ego lifting trumps science based lifters all the time, which is why most of them are small" type trolling.
Sam knows the science, but feels people overcomplicate lifting. He has spoken recently that he was obviously trolling... but it does hold some weight in the sense that as long as you have some good sets to failure, and a "sweet pump", then you cover your basis for growth. He is aware of effective reps, RIR and RPE based methodology and science. He also now does lighter, mind muscle connection, pump works sets to failure or near failure... focusing on the squeeze.

Sam was doing around 11 sets to failure per bodypart per workout, but has dropped to around 6-8 sets. Using the same split I have defaulted to time and time again.
Back and Rear Delts
Chest and Shoulders
Arms
Legs
Repeat

He often trolled the science based lifters and touted ego lifting the whole stack to failure on ever set. However he meant "working sets" only. You didn't really see the warmup sets.

 

[HeavyLiftr]

Hey guys, do you do the classic ego lift till failure every set or the “science” way?

For people juicing

I have always trained to failure.

 

[Shoobiedoubie]

Hey guys, do you do the classic ego lift till failure every set or the “science” way?

For people juicing

Trained like Sam Sulek for 20 weeks during a blast. Heavy weight, ego lifting, almost always to failure. 7 days a weeks. Probably took like 4 rest days total in those 20 weeks.

No b.s. my bench went up by 40 lbs, squat went up by 40 lbs, and deadlift went up by 80 lbs.

Went from 180 lbs bodyweight to 202 lbs bodyweight.

 

[ChevChelios]

Hey guys, do you do the classic ego lift till failure every set or the “science” way?

For people juicing

It’s the same whether or not you’re juicing or not, train heavy n either go to failure or close to it n you’re good (I usually go to like near failure so when the bar starts getting real grindy I know I did the right amount of reps but often I will still test myself with some more reps n if need be I just dump or roll the bar). It’s honestly not that important what you do as long as you do it hard n consistent imo (n ofc eat your face off)

 

[ChevChelios]

Trained like Sam Sulek for 20 weeks during a blast. Heavy weight, ego lifting, almost always to failure. 7 days a weeks. Probably took like 4 rest days total in those 20 weeks.

No b.s. my bench went up by 40 lbs, squat went up by 40 lbs, and deadlift went up by 80 lbs.

Went from 180 lbs bodyweight to 202 lbs bodyweight.

This. Too many people get caught up in ‘optimal’ n forget that the important thing is actual effort n stimulation, some ‘body English’ is more than normal if one did only strict movements they would stay at the same weights for ages

 

[29trt]

It’s the same whether or not you’re juicing or not, train heavy n either go to failure or close to it n you’re good (I usually go to like near failure so when the bar starts getting real grindy I know I did the right amount of reps but often I will still test myself with some more reps n if need be I just dump or roll the bar). It’s honestly not that important what you do as long as you do it hard n consistent imo (n ofc eat your face off)

I find judging in set proximity to failure is relatively easy, the problem comes when deciding if you are going to do one more set... because I could rest a little longer and for sure I will be able to continue "stimulating" the target muscle only later to discover that I went over board and will take me a week to recover instead of 2-3days...

and to make it complicated no one can say with certainty which way you are going to grow more being an enhanced individual that has anabolism on all the time...

 

[ChevChelios]

I find judging in set proximity to failure is relatively easy, the problem comes when deciding if you are going to do one more set... because I could rest a little longer and for sure I will be able to continue "stimulating" the target muscle only later to discover that I went over board and will take me a week to recover instead of 2-3days...

and to make it complicated no one can say with certainty which way you are going to grow more being an enhanced individual that has anabolism on all the time...

Fair enough, in my case I don’t take that long to recover even as a natty but it does depend on what n how I do things I guess just like with most other things the most important factor here is autoregulation and ofc eating enough, cos I’ve gone past failure in the past without impacting my recovery more than usual but I noticed something that tends to recover slower than the muscles is stuff that gets stimulated from really heavy training like deadlifts it does leave you a bit burnt out if you’re doin em 3x a week or more but who tf is doing that at max weights ahah for the rest imo people really underestimate how quickly muscles recover n most ‘overtraining’ is neurological or cns related stuff as in it takes that longer to recover than the actual muscles due to well shit super high weights in big compound movements like the deadlift or some people with the squat (although the squat I found to be a lot easier to do even every day, you won’t be happy but you will be alright ahah)