Treating mild Gyno during PCT

[schmib]

Hi all,

Today is my last pin of a 10wk 400mg/wk Test Prop cycle and just a few days ago I noticed I had a very small lump under my left nip. Both of them have been more puffy than usual lately. I was surprised as I've been running Aromasin 12.5mg/day throughout the cycle, but it is what it is. I immediately upped my Aromasin to 25mg/day and started nolva at 40mg/day.

My question is, should I run Aromasin throughout PCT (clomid + nolva)? Should I start Letrozole immediately? If so, how long should I run these after PCT? I haven't been able to find much on the web about the use of Aromasin or Letro for gyno treatment DURING PCT. I want to take every step I possibly can to minimize the risk of this thing getting any worse. Libido and the other side effects of crashing my E2 are a secondary concern.

Thanks so much.

Stats

6'
195lbs
~13% BF

 

[skofan]

aromasin and letro wont treat your gyno, period. there's no need for crashing your e2 at all. aromatose inhibitors like aromasin and letrozole are used to prevent gyno onset, not for treatment. (they're also used to combat bloat, limp dick, and other side effects of high estro).
nolva on the other hand can treat gyno, and you should start nolva right away. serm's especially tamoxifen (nolva) and raloxifene, have been shown effective at reducing, and in some cases even removing pre existing gyno in peer reviewed studies.

 

[schmib]

So you're saying Letro does nothing for gyno? That goes against pretty much everything I've read about gyno treatment ever.

Should I even pin my last test shot? Should I continue aromasin into PCT and beyond? Is there any reason I shouldn't just nuke with Letro during PCT, just to be safe? Halp!

 

[Docd187123]

AIs can work on gyno but they aren't as effective as seems like Nolva and ralox are. Get blood work to see if your AI dose is sufficient.

Take Nolva or ralox to treat the gyno. Stop the AI before going into pct and just keep the SERMs for pct and beyond if needed to treat the gyno

 

[skofan]

letro (and other ai's) will shrink the tissue if you crash your e2 completely, for an extended period of time, but the tissue will still be there waiting for your estrogen to increase.

serm's will kill the tissue. normally serms are used as a way to increase the speed of recovery in the testes, but when treating gyno they are actually doing their intended job of killing brest tissue, since they were designed as brest cancer drugs.

edit.. imagine this. the breast tissue has receptors waiting for estrogen, removing the estrogen will help while the estrogen is gone. clogging the receptors will fix the issue when the estrogen is back.

 

[schmib]

Thanks guys. I'll continue the Nolva and drop the aromasin at PCT.

Should I do my last pin of prop today, or cut my cycle short? Would it be increasing the risk if I did?

 

[skofan]

Thanks guys. I'll continue the Nolva and drop the aromasin at PCT.

Should I do my last pin of prop today, or cut my cycle short? Would it be increasing the risk if I did?

yes it could make the problem worse, since your AI seems to be bunk, however if you know for sure that your nolva is legit, and already started taking it it wont.
personally id just skip the last shot and move on, no reason for taking unneeded risks.

 

[schmib]

Thanks so much!

 

[schmib]

So I've been reading up even further and there seems to be a lot of conflicting information about Letro. Some say it's literally your only hope if you want to combat your gyno without surgery and that it should be started as soon as possible (this protocol is all over the internet: http://www.steroidology.com/forum/anabolic-steroid-forum/584008-gyno-reduction-protocol.html).

If I wanted to be on the safe side and run Letrozole during PCT, could I do this? Should I use an AI for a few weeks afterwards to avoid rebound, or just Nolva to do the same thing?

 

[skofan]

if you absolutely want to crash your estro, running letro alongside the nolva wont prevent the nolva from working.
and its true, the old protocol for treating gyno used to be letro+nolva, and people used to say that if you had gotten fibrous tissue, the gyno had "set" and your only option was surgery. personally i used to believe that too, but then studies like this made it around the bodybuilding community:
Treatment of gynecomastia with tamoxifen: a double-blind crossover study. - PubMed - NCBI
Tamoxifen to treat male pubertal gynaecomastia
Management of physiological gynaecomastia with tamoxifen. - PubMed - NCBI
Endocrine treatment of physiological gynaecomastia: Tamoxifen seems to be effective

and then later than that studies on raloxifene, which shows to be even more effective.

i just looked at the page you linked, it says "Nolvadex will do nothing to reverse your gyno" which is 100% false, serm's are scientifically proven to reduce or cure gyno, and have been shown to help 50-70% of patients, while there is little to no evidence of permanent cure from aromatose inhibitors.

also, estradiol is produced in the male body by a conversion from testosterone, the percieved rebound is actually your estradiol levels returning to normal levels, once natural testosterone production has been restored, and no aromatose inhibitor is present to prevent aromatase.

if you want to run letro anyway, its up to you, but the serm's are the cure you are looking for. if nolva doesnt work for you, look into getting some raloxifene, its a lot worse for restoring testosterone production, but it have been shown more effective at curing gyno in studies.

 

[schmib]

if you absolutely want to crash your estro, running letro alongside the nolva wont prevent the nolva from working.
and its true, the old protocol for treating gyno used to be letro+nolva, and people used to say that if you had gotten fibrous tissue, the gyno had "set" and your only option was surgery. personally i used to believe that too, but then studies like this made it around the bodybuilding community:
Treatment of gynecomastia with tamoxifen: a double-blind crossover study. - PubMed - NCBI
Tamoxifen to treat male pubertal gynaecomastia
Management of physiological gynaecomastia with tamoxifen. - PubMed - NCBI
Endocrine treatment of physiological gynaecomastia: Tamoxifen seems to be effective

and then later than that studies on raloxifene, which shows to be even more effective.

i just looked at the page you linked, it says "Nolvadex will do nothing to reverse your gyno" which is 100% false, serm's are scientifically proven to reduce or cure gyno, and have been shown to help 50-70% of patients, while there is little to no evidence of permanent cure from aromatose inhibitors.

also, estradiol is produced in the male body by a conversion from testosterone, the percieved rebound is actually your estradiol levels returning to normal levels, once natural testosterone production has been restored, and no aromatose inhibitor is present to prevent aromatase.

if you want to run letro anyway, its up to you, but the serm's are the cure you are looking for. if nolva doesnt work for you, look into getting some raloxifene, its a lot worse for restoring testosterone production, but it have been shown more effective at curing gyno in studies.

Thanks! I think I'll avoid the letro in PCT now unless it starts to get worse for some reason.

So this estradiol rebound - can it worsen your gyno?

Should I continue my aromasin into PCT though? I'm still hesitant to cut it off even though I finished my cycle 3 days ago.

 

[skofan]

if your nolva is legit, it wont get worse, but id be slightly nervous about how good it is, since your aromasin seems to be bunk. there's no way you should have gotten gyno at 400mg a week with a working ai.

there is no rebound, its just your body returning to normal, if you dont have to deal with gyno off cycle usually, nothing have changed.

well if you finished your cycle 3 days ago, you still have large amounts of artificial testosterone in your body, so yes you should be using an ai, at least until the artificial test clears. i think the half life of prop is 3 days, im unsure on how often you pinned, but id guess you should run an ai for at least 9 days after the last pin, maybe 12 would be better to stay on the safe side.

 

[mghoward74]

Aromasin is the only AI that can be ran during pct.

Pct doesn't start 3 days after last Test P pin, it's roughly 10-14 days.

3 days is bro science

 

[schmib]

It's been almost a week since I've been dosing with Nolva at 40mg/day, I'm just going to keep dosing it and go straight into PCT in two days and continue the Aromasin for 12 days after the last pin.

These goddamn puffy nipples are messing with my head. I can't stop fiddling with them. I hope to god they go away during PCT.

If they don't, should I wait until after PCT to nuke with Letro?

 

[schmib]

All this talk on the web about surgery being your only option once the gland has formed has me petrified. If I can get rid of this thing successfully, I'm never running another cycle.

 

[schmib]

Any help would be greatly appreciated - looking into sourcing some Raloxifene to run concurrently with Nolva, but until then should I keep running Nolva at 40mg and Asin at 12.5 until 12 days after the last pin?

Is there any harm in nuking with Letro 2.5mg/day for a week, then going back to Asin to avoid rebound?

 

[Docd187123]

Any help would be greatly appreciated - looking into sourcing some Raloxifene to run concurrently with Nolva, but until then should I keep running Nolva at 40mg and Asin at 12.5 until 12 days after the last pin?

Is there any harm in nuking with Letro 2.5mg/day for a week, then going back to Asin to avoid rebound?

There's nothing to show Nolva and ralox together being more efficacious but may present its own problem. Run one or the other.

Use your aromasin as needed indicated by blood work.

Harm? Maybe crashing your E2. There's no such thing as estrogen rebound so don't worry about it.

 

[schmib]

Thank you! I'll just go with the ralox then, and contine it after PCT ends as well.

I definitely don't want to crash my E2 unnecessarily but I do want to do everything I possibly can to combat this gyno in its early stages. I don't mind a week or two of feeling like shit if it helps in the long term. I just know that I'm doing this during PCT so it's hard to find any info about this on the web.