Triptorelin.

[Silentlemon1011]

Okay...
So I've done a fuck tonne of research and searching on this stuff.

I just dont fucking understand how it works WHATSOEVER.

Here I'd what is confusing me.

1. You can chemically Castrate yourself with it.
2. WebMD says it suppresses LH and FSH
3. Can be used for PCT and has WORKED for a Bodybuilder who was Blast and cruise for 10 years... did 1x Triptorelin @ 100mcg followed by 20 Nolva for 4 weeks...
He went from 0 production to HIGH production.. and was still good to go 1 year after Triptorelin/PCT administration.

Can someone with a better understanding (Bigger brain than me too) help me out with understanding this?
I'm looking at you
@Old
@The Terminator
@Michael Scally MD

lol

How can the same drug
Shut down production and chemically castrate you....AND be used for the ultimate PCT?

What am I missing here?

 

[The Terminator]

Well from my understanding under normal or “natty” conditions your hypothalamus releases GnRH in a pulsatile manner, and if you mimic this with a small amount, which I think is 0.1mg you would get the triptorelin to stimulate LH/FSH. But, when the pituitary gets a heavy constant dose of GnRH or GnRH analog it will become desensitized to the GnRH, which will suppress LH/FSH which causes the chemical castration. Of course this isn’t permanent, once the triptorelin wears off you’d slowly return to normal.

Like I said if you can mimic the way the hypothalamus works you’ll get LH/FSH, which would be hard to do long term without an expert dr’s help, but for pct you’d only do one shot of 0.1mg. I believe for prostate cancer or castration purposes they typically do at least 3.75mg/4 wks and they also have 11.25 and 22.5mg doses so the pct dose is pretty small.

 

[Silentlemon1011]

Well from my understanding under normal or “natty” conditions your hypothalamus releases GnRH in a pulsatile manner, and if you mimic this with a small amount, which I think is 0.1mg you would get the triptorelin to stimulate LH/FSH. But, when the pituitary gets a heavy constant dose of GnRH or GnRH analog it will become desensitized to the GnRH, which will suppress LH/FSH which causes the chemical castration. Of course this isn’t permanent, once the triptorelin wears off you’d slowly return to normal.

Like I said if you can mimic the way the hypothalamus works you’ll get LH/FSH, which would be hard to do long term without an expert dr’s help, but for pct you’d only do one shot of 0.1mg. I believe for prostate cancer or castration purposes they typically do at least 3.75mg/4 wks and they also have 11.25 and 22.5mg doses so the pct dose is pretty small.

Thanks brother,
That definatly clears things up substantially.

So, how would a Triptorelin PCT look like?
I assume you would still have to use SERMs
Would HCG be required?
Or would it in fact be detrimental to kickstarting LH/FSH?

The literature I read was as follows.

100mcg Triptorelin
followed by
20mg Nolvadex for 4 weeks.

The subject had been Blasting and cruising for 10 years
He recovered to high natural levels of Testosterone

This is certainly quite interesting and I'm actually seriously surprised that this protocol isn't talked about within our community very often.

 

[Dr__Jan_Itor]

Hcg is definetly needed bc the triptorelin only kickstarts your lh/fsh.
Your nuts are still atrophied. Sure you could wait till they naturally recover (if they do) but why take that risk.

I have used triptorelin but just as an addition to a normal pct (hcg/tamoxifen/clomid)

 

[Old]

Okay...
So I've done a fuck tonne of research and searching on this stuff.

I just dont fucking understand how it works WHATSOEVER.

Here I'd what is confusing me.

1. You can chemically Castrate yourself with it.
2. WebMD says it suppresses LH and FSH
3. Can be used for PCT and has WORKED for a Bodybuilder who was Blast and cruise for 10 years... did 1x Triptorelin @ 100mcg followed by 20 Nolva for 4 weeks...
He went from 0 production to HIGH production.. and was still good to go 1 year after Triptorelin/PCT administration.

Can someone with a better understanding (Bigger brain than me too) help me out with understanding this?
I'm looking at you
@Old
@The Terminator
@Michael Scally MD

lol

How can the same drug
Shut down production and chemically castrate you....AND be used for the ultimate PCT?

What am I missing here?

With the one case I found (did not search for more), the guy had an unusual feature. https://www.fertstert.org/article/S0015-0282(10)00503-0/pdf

He was 34 and had been blasting since 21. He ALSO had been using clomid and hCG as his PCT (though not it the 'right' way). His testicals were quite small (2.9ml, [normal range 15-25]. YET HE HAD NORMAL SPERM COUNT!
He was treated with a single dose of 100 μg of triptorelin. Within 1 month, the patient's serum testosterone was in the normal range.

We would need to see a lot more cases before recommending this as PCT. It is unusual to have normal sperm count from testicles with such atrophy. Also, with this case he had been using clomid and hCG between blasts. So it is hard to draw a conclusion that would apply to others. Certainly 1 month recovery is remarkable. But how recently had he used clomid/hCG?

Now I'll go on a limb to explain possible benefit/reasons:

• The hypothalamus is part of the brain ... it is brain tissue (neurons).
• Neurons require continual stimulation (receiving pulses from other axions to their dendrites) or they will die.
• The brain THRIVES on CHANGE.
• The greater (sudden+magnitude) the change the greater the brain reacts.
• Regulatory systems monitor changes and respond accordingly
• When part of the hypothalamus is nearly shutdown, it adapts to functioning in that new range of continually elevated E2 and/or androgens.
• If one waits for natural production to restore without intervention, it can take months, or years, or never truly never returns to healthy ranges. Gradual feedback signals result in gradual, lackluster responses.
• When the hypothalamus receives a sudden, dramatic change in E2 and/or T, it adapts more strongly. IMO that is why front-loading the first day of SERM(s) is important.
• So perhaps the sudden change with triptorelin (as seen in Figure 1) incited the hypothalamus to respond more quickly to low E2 and T.

 

[Silentlemon1011]

With the one case I found (did not search for more), the guy had an unusual feature. https://www.fertstert.org/article/S0015-0282(10)00503-0/pdf

He was 34 and had been blasting since 21. He ALSO had been using clomid and hCG as his PCT (though not it the 'right' way). His testicals were quite small (2.9ml, [normal range 15-25]. YET HE HAD NORMAL SPERM COUNT!
He was treated with a single dose of 100 μg of triptorelin. Within 1 month, the patient's serum testosterone was in the normal range.

We would need to see a lot more cases before recommending this as PCT. It is unusual to have normal sperm count from testicles with such atrophy. Also, with this case he had been using clomid and hCG between blasts. So it is hard to draw a conclusion that would apply to others. Certainly 1 month recovery is remarkable. But how recently had he used clomid/hCG?

Now I'll go on a limb to explain possible benefit/reasons:

• The hypothalamus is part of the brain ... it is brain tissue (neurons).
• Neurons require continual stimulation (receiving pulses from other axions to their dendrites) or they will die.
• The brain THRIVES on CHANGE.
• The greater (sudden+magnitude) the change the greater the brain reacts.
• Regulatory systems monitor changes and respond accordingly
• When part of the hypothalamus is nearly shutdown, it adapts to functioning in that new range of continually elevated E2 and/or androgens.
• If one waits for natural production to restore without intervention, it can take months, or years, or never truly never returns to healthy ranges. Gradual feedback signals result in gradual, lackluster responses.
• When the hypothalamus receives a sudden, dramatic change in E2 and/or T, it adapts more strongly. IMO that is why front-loading the first day of SERM(s) is important.
• So perhaps the sudden change with triptorelin (as seen in Figure 1) incited the hypothalamus to respond more quickly to low E2 and T.

I think I understand.

It's the whole idea of LH/FSH and TT MUST be lower than "Normal" (Individually different)
Before starting PCT (Standard PCT)

I noticed in figure 1
FSH actually DROPPED slightly during thenexaxt moment of administration of Triptorelin.
(Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but it seems to be the case)

So basically the "Shock"of a plummeting FSH LH will kickstart the HPTA into significant attempts at production?

With the proper medication of course.

Am I kind of on the right track?

 

[Old]

I think I understand.

It's the whole idea of LH/FSH and TT MUST be lower than "Normal" (Individually different)
Before starting PCT (Standard PCT)

I noticed in figure 1
FSH actually DROPPED slightly during thenexaxt moment of administration of Triptorelin.
(Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but it seems to be the case)

So basically the "Shock"of a plummeting FSH LH will kickstart the HPTA into significant attempts at production?

With the proper medication of course.

Am I kind of on the right track?

Yes, "Shock" is the idea I suggest. It's a key feature of learning and in this case, 'unconscious' learning [of the hypothalamus].

Not sure how triptorelin works for ADT since it stimulates LH and FSH. Perhaps there is a negative feedback for GnRH into the hypothalamus (not just E and androgens). And the steady state (lack of pulses) leads to no response downstream.

For prostate cancer, they use "Sustained-release 1-, 3- and 6-month formulations of triptorelin". [ An Update on Triptorelin: Current Thinking on Androgen Deprivation Therapy for Prostate Cancer ] With the guy above, they used just triptorelin which has a half-life of just a few minutes.

Noted later when reading the whole article that the author attributes the man's success largely to previous use of clomid and hCG. (Then he goes off about how horrible it is to have easy internet access to androgens).

Still, triptorelin might be useful. Anyone know of other cases of its use?

I have used triptorelin but just as an addition to a normal pct (hcg/tamoxifen/clomid)

At what point, how long, and how much triptorelin did you use for your PCT?
Do you think you get better or quicker results using it?

 

[Silentlemon1011]

Yes, "Shock" is the idea I suggest. It's a key feature of learning and in this case, 'unconscious' learning [of the hypothalamus].

Not sure how triptorelin works for ADT since it stimulates LH and FSH. Perhaps there is a negative feedback for GnRH into the hypothalamus (not just E and androgens). And the steady state (lack of pulses) leads to no response downstream.

For prostate cancer, they use "Sustained-release 1-, 3- and 6-month formulations of triptorelin". [ An Update on Triptorelin: Current Thinking on Androgen Deprivation Therapy for Prostate Cancer ] With the guy above, they used just triptorelin which has a half-life of just a few minutes.

Noted later when reading the whole article that the author attributes the man's success largely to previous use of clomid and hCG. (Then he goes off about how horrible it is to have easy internet access to androgens).

Still, triptorelin might be useful. Anyone know of other cases of its use?


At what point, how long, and how much triptorelin did you use for your PCT?
Do you think you get better or quicker results using it?

Appreciate the help @Old
@The Terminator

I'm thinking it would be a worthwhile experiment to run.

I am curre tl running a traditional PCT

Next time
I will run a Triptorelin hit at the front end of PCT.

I assume its Beneficial to start on Nolva and Clomid IMMEDIATLY after Triptorelin
Or Front load the day before so that the SERMs are active in my system.

With the latter methodology, would that dull the "shock" of the Triptorelin shot?

I know we are talking theories and opinions here, I cant expect anyone has a concrete scientifically backed answer to that question...

HOWEVER
I already have low natural test and will be TRT within a few years,
So TBH I'm quite okay with a little experimentation.

Thoughts?

 

[Old]

Appreciate the help @Old
@The Terminator

I'm thinking it would be a worthwhile experiment to run.

I am curre tl running a traditional PCT

Next time
I will run a Triptorelin hit at the front end of PCT.

I assume its Beneficial to start on Nolva and Clomid IMMEDIATLY after Triptorelin
Or Front load the day before so that the SERMs are active in my system.

With the latter methodology, would that dull the "shock" of the Triptorelin shot?

I know we are talking theories and opinions here, I cant expect anyone has a concrete scientifically backed answer to that question...

HOWEVER
I already have low natural test and will be TRT within a few years,
So TBH I'm quite okay with a little experimentation.

Thoughts?

My thoughts are still, lol. Given how quickly triptorelin is, one could do them all together (though one is SQ and the others oral).

Would love to hear JokerTime94's experiences.

 

[Silentlemon1011]

My thoughts are still, lol. Given how quickly triptorelin is, one could do them all together (though one is SQ and the others oral).

Would love to hear JokerTime94's experiences.

As would I.

I'm personally thinking doing a Clomid and Nolva frontload immediately after a shot would be beneficial.

I'm sure that would be quite shockinf to the system

sure the Triptorelin tskes effext in seconds, but LH/FSH wont recover in seconds and the Clomid Nolva will work their best at the new flatlined levels.

Could make for an interesting experiment.

HoweverAll of that is obviously 100% PURE speculation in my part lol

 

[The Terminator]

Thanks brother,
That definatly clears things up substantially.

So, how would a Triptorelin PCT look like?
I assume you would still have to use SERMs
Would HCG be required?
Or would it in fact be detrimental to kickstarting LH/FSH?

The literature I read was as follows.

100mcg Triptorelin
followed by
20mg Nolvadex for 4 weeks.

The subject had been Blasting and cruising for 10 years
He recovered to high natural levels of Testosterone

This is certainly quite interesting and I'm actually seriously surprised that this protocol isn't talked about within our community very often.

I’d imagine you’d still want to use hCG to recover T before you attempt to recover the HP. Not sure if serms would be necessary tbh, I guess you could just to be on the safe side but I’d imagine triptorelin would have more of an affect or quicker. And yea I guess I already answered this about how the same drug can be used for pct and chemical castration, well as I said when the pituitary is over exposed to high amounts of GnRH consistently it becomes desensitized and starts down regulating receptors. Why it acts like that idk, but GnRH analogous like triptorelin are stronger than your own natural GnRH, or longer half-life.