Trouble with chest growth

[Docd187123]

It is actually quite painful during squats as well due to the position of my elbows.

This makes it sounds like a common issue.

When you squat do you do the thumbs over grip or thumbs around? You set your grip relatively close to the center of the bar?

Donnie Thompson I believe talks about this a lot and that we shouldn't be squatting with Oly bars. He says they do more harm than good. He recommends the buffalo bar as it's a lot more forgiving.

The issue, I'm guessing if it's the joint, is from retracting your scapula and pinching back your shoulders is pinches a nerve which causes the elbow pain. It's quite common with powerlifters.

1) if you use a thumbs around grip STOP USING IT and use a thumbs over grip on the bar.

2) widen out your grip/hand position to relieve some of the tension.

3) use a Specialty bar to squat with. SSB, cambered bar, buffalo bar are the most popular ones.

 

[DjX18058]

Not wanting to hijack a thread but since yourself and WC are here thought I'd take advantage of it. My question is about elbow pain. I've been going great with strength increase in bench going from sets of 5 @ 100kg to 5x5 @ 120kg but my elbows are giving me grief. I dropped back to 100kg the other day and did sets of 10 but my right elbow was sore as Fuck afterwards. It's happened before and had to stay @ higher reps while they healed and massaged them everyday. I use good form but that doesn't seem to matter. Any tips on what I may be doing wrong or is this an inevitable side to lifting heavy?

I get elbow pain too but on bicep day they ache like a bitch after some heavy curls

 

[DjX18058]

Try working various rep ranges and intensities on barbell bench press. For example:

6x3 @ 80-85%
5x5 @ 70-75%
3-4x8 @ 65%

Do this as your first lift on chest day. you can switch it to later in the workout every now and then but understand fatigue built through your workout may not let you finish the sets and reps at the intensities I listed above those days.

Follow it up with your isolation and accessory lifts after that with lifts like incline barbell press, DB press, incline DB press, CG bench press, dips, floor presses, flys, etc. Do these lifts for 3-6 sets in the 8-12 rep range at an RPE of 8-9 meaning you could have done another 1-3 reps after you finish each set. The weight can change depending on the day but that's the beauty of using RPE. It allows you to tailor your workout to risky stresses.

Then after that if you want to use some machines like a pec deck or something do them for a few high rep burn out sets of 12-20 reps

Awesome I really Appretiate the advice brother. Will definitely give this a try and let ya know how it works out. Also do u think working chest just about every other day is ok to do ? Or should I cut back on how many Times I week I work it

 

[DjX18058]

I understand if I wasn't on a cycle I most likely would never be able to pull this off

 

[Maxlass]

This makes it sounds like a common issue.

When you squat do you do the thumbs over grip or thumbs around? You set your grip relatively close to the center of the bar?

Donnie Thompson I believe talks about this a lot and that we shouldn't be squatting with Oly bars. He says they do more harm than good. He recommends the buffalo bar as it's a lot more forgiving.

The issue, I'm guessing if it's the joint, is from retracting your scapula and pinching back your shoulders is pinches a nerve which causes the elbow pain. It's quite common with powerlifters.

1) if you use a thumbs around grip STOP USING IT and use a thumbs over grip on the bar.

2) widen out your grip/hand position to relieve some of the tension.

3) use a Specialty bar to squat with. SSB, cambered bar, buffalo bar are the most popular ones.

I use thumbs over grip now with thumbs about where the rings are. It does feel marginally better the wider I go but am limited as I don't want to jam my fingers in the rack when reracking. I'll Google the bars you speak of but I'm currently limited to what my gym has. Perhaps I can convince them into purchasing something different.

 

[Docd187123]

Awesome I really Appretiate the advice brother. Will definitely give this a try and let ya know how it works out. Also do u think working chest just about every other day is ok to do ? Or should I cut back on how many Times I week I work it

You're welcome.

Spend a few weeks learning to bench press with a barbell properly. When compared to doing it on a smith they're worlds apart in technique and what you can actually lift. So hammer down some good form and get some good time under the barbell. After a couple weeks you can test outa 1RM. You should use a spotter for that if possible. If not just stop short of failure and use that number. Use your max to calculate the weights to be used based on the percentages above. You can change the percent age and reps and sets daily or weekly or undulate between all. The goal though is to keep adding weight to the bar over time. So if you did 6sets of 3reps at 85% which turned out to be 250lbs. The following week or two weeks you should try 6x3 @ 255lbs. Same with the other rep ranges.

For the accessory and isolation lifts you don't need to use percentages and RPE would be a better way to use them. An RPE of anywhere from 7-9 is fine but keep the reps on these lifts higher than you wild for bench. You're not using then to build strength so much as to add volume and fatigue to your chest.

As a powerlifter, I don't work chest or body parts for that matter. I work lifts ie squat, bench and deads. I do 6 bench press sessions or a variant like CG bench, touch and go bench, 2ct paused bench, 3ct paused bench, floor press, etc a week and I workout 4days a week now. This means I do a "bench session everyday I'm in the gym and 2 of those days I do two bench sessions in the day. So I can do that bc I'm not doing a toN Of other work on my chest. If you plan on adding a lot of smaller work on top of benching for your chest I would start off a twice a week and go from there. Once you get accustomed to it you can go 3x a week if you feel recovery is good. If not stick to twice a week.

 

[Docd187123]

I use thumbs over grip now with thumbs about where the rings are. It does feel marginally better the wider I go but am limited as I don't want to jam my fingers in the rack when reracking. I'll Google the bars you speak of but I'm currently limited to what my gym has. Perhaps I can convince them into purchasing something different.

If you're gym is like mine they'll laugh at you when you bring up the topic of buying specialty bars lol but I hope they come through for you.

Maybe take a wide grip for you sets then slide your hands in a bit right as you're racking the bar back?

Anecdotally, one thing that seems to help me is when I do bamboo bench presses. I don't have access to a bamboo bar at my gym but I use two resistance bands and two clips to ghetto rig one so to speak on a normal Oly bar. The instability of the weight on the bar seems to help strengthen and help the ROM of my shoulders and elbows. It's not a night and day difference, it maybe placebo for all I know, but it might be worth a shot if you have a couple of resistance bands or even thin rope laying around.

 

[Maxlass]

If you're gym is like mine they'll laugh at you when you bring up the topic of buying specialty bars lol but I hope they come through for you.

Maybe take a wide grip for you sets then slide your hands in a bit right as you're racking the bar back?

Anecdotally, one thing that seems to help me is when I do bamboo bench presses. I don't have access to a bamboo bar at my gym but I use two resistance bands and two clips to ghetto rig one so to speak on a normal Oly bar. The instability of the weight on the bar seems to help strengthen and help the ROM of my shoulders and elbows. It's not a night and day difference, it maybe placebo for all I know, but it might be worth a shot if you have a couple of resistance bands or even thin rope laying around.

I used to be able to slide my hands in when I was lifting lighter but find it difficult as I got heavier. I'm up to sets of 5 @ 180kg and find my hands naturally slide further out through the reps but sliding them back in when reracking I find difficult. This morning I did sets of 15 @ 130kg due to the discomfort of my elbow and it was a lot easier manipulating my hand position due to the lighter load. I FUCKING HATE high rep squats though. Gasses the shit out of me and the lower back pump after set 5 was excruciating.

 

[RodgerThat]

Mark bell makes a decent compression cuff that i find alleviated nagging elbow pain they are fairly cheap. Not saying definitively that it will work for you but i was getting a tad bit of issue doing overhead triceps extensions and my 1 rep max on bench would agitate it. the compression cuff stopped the agitation and really helped it heal up.

As for chest growth man like DOC said bench is king in that world nothing will build you up like the 3 main compound lifts and if you are skimping on the one that works the area you want to build seems silly to me.

 

[Docd187123]

I used to be able to slide my hands in when I was lifting lighter but find it difficult as I got heavier. I'm up to sets of 5 @ 180kg and find my hands naturally slide further out through the reps but sliding them back in when reracking I find difficult. This morning I did sets of 15 @ 130kg due to the discomfort of my elbow and it was a lot easier manipulating my hand position due to the lighter load. I FUCKING HATE high rep squats though. Gasses the shit out of me and the lower back pump after set 5 was excruciating.

I know what you mean. Heavy sets are much harder to slide your hands on plus if something goes wrong.....

I've done some 20rep squat runs here and there for conditioning and endurance but fucking hate them too. Love sets of 3 and heavy singles myself.

Try just keeping your hands as wide as you can. Even an inch or so wider can make a pretty significant difference. What I normally do is my warmups with a very wide grip and work sets with a narrow grip. It still bothers me but not as much as if I do all sets with narrow grip. I also don't feel as secure with a wider grip which is another reason the tradeoff with the pain is worthwhile. I can't lift as much with a wide grip as I feel my upper back doesn't get as tight and I tend to get chest cave as the weights to up

 

[DjX18058]

You're welcome.

Spend a few weeks learning to bench press with a barbell properly. When compared to doing it on a smith they're worlds apart in technique and what you can actually lift. So hammer down some good form and get some good time under the barbell. After a couple weeks you can test outa 1RM. You should use a spotter for that if possible. If not just stop short of failure and use that number. Use your max to calculate the weights to be used based on the percentages above. You can change the percent age and reps and sets daily or weekly or undulate between all. The goal though is to keep adding weight to the bar over time. So if you did 6sets of 3reps at 85% which turned out to be 250lbs. The following week or two weeks you should try 6x3 @ 255lbs. Same with the other rep ranges.

For the accessory and isolation lifts you don't need to use percentages and RPE would be a better way to use them. An RPE of anywhere from 7-9 is fine but keep the reps on these lifts higher than you wild for bench. You're not using then to build strength so much as to add volume and fatigue to your chest.

As a powerlifter, I don't work chest or body parts for that matter. I work lifts ie squat, bench and deads. I do 6 bench press sessions or a variant like CG bench, touch and go bench, 2ct paused bench, 3ct paused bench, floor press, etc a week and I workout 4days a week now. This means I do a "bench session everyday I'm in the gym and 2 of those days I do two bench sessions in the day. So I can do that bc I'm not doing a toN Of other work on my chest. If you plan on adding a lot of smaller work on top of benching for your chest I would start off a twice a week and go from there. Once you get accustomed to it you can go 3x a week if you feel recovery is good. If not stick to twice a week.

You seem to be extremely knowledgeable of the subject thanks a lot for the help man seriously this is going to help greatly

 

[Docd187123]

Mark bell makes a decent compression cuff that i find alleviated nagging elbow pain they are fairly cheap. Not saying definitively that it will work for you but i was getting a tad bit of issue doing overhead triceps extensions and my 1 rep max on bench would agitate it. the compression cuff stopped the agitation and really helped it heal up.

As for chest growth man like DOC said bench is king in that world nothing will build you up like the 3 main compound lifts and if you are skimping on the one that works the area you want to build seems silly to me.

I forgot about those compression cuffs. Do you find they help with the tendons in the forearm like golfer's elbow or for the actual joint itself too? I used to take an ace bandage and wrap it tightly around my forearm where some of the pain was and it would help the golfer/tennis elbow but so much at the joint itself.

Barbell Bench press and dB bench are super important lifts. I'd also add in some heavy overhead pressing work as well. I find OHP and benching to go beautifully together. Almost makes incline benchingredundant lol

 

[RodgerThat]

The compression cuff is nice in that if feels like a wrist wrap on my elbow so there is no play, im just piping broscience first hand experience here but it is pretty good i got the size to fit my forearm and it works for forearm elbow and lower bycep any higher than that and it cuts off circulation in my guns . But yes i do notice a difference wearing it to not, i don't wear it all the time just the second i feel any issue in the elbow ill throw it on to finish the workout pain free. probably pull it out of the bag 1-3 times a month now.

Dumb bells are great for when you are pushing lighter weight as you can turn them 90 degrees at the top and really squeeze the chest but other than that i much prefer barbell as i can simply do more weight due to technique but thats more of a PLer thing.

 

[Docd187123]

You seem to be extremely knowledgeable of the subject thanks a lot for the help man seriously this is going to help greatly

Thank you. I hope it does. If you find it doesn't come back and we'll keep working at it making little tweaks here and there.

I'm a powerlifter and pretty OCD about my training so I cannot wing my workouts, go by feel, or decide what I want to do when I get to the gym. I need structure and planned progression to make the most efficient use of my time in the gym. I research the hell out of this topic and programming in general bc it interests me greatly. Plus I have an amazing coach who I've worked with for almost 2yrs now and I've learned a lot from him.

Remember success in the gym doesn't fall in your lap. It's planned for. You'll never achieve your goals unless spend time planning on how to work towards them. I log every single lift I do with weights and reps and sets, I have my programming planned out for the next 5months, I try to learn everything I can and apply those things to see what I benefit from the most, I video my main/competition lifts and send them to my coach for form feedback, I drive 2.5hrs one way to lift with my coach whenever possible, and numerous other little things. You can adopt all these to help you get better and it only requires a minimal amount of extra work on top of what you're currently doing.

A quote I read by Texan's Defensive End applies perfectly here and has stuck with me ever since I read it. Watt says:

"Success isn't owned. It is leased and rent is due every day"

Just reading that ^^^ fires me up lol.

 

[insertnamehere]

Awesome I really Appretiate the advice brother. Will definitely give this a try and let ya know how it works out. Also do u think working chest just about every other day is ok to do ? Or should I cut back on how many Times I week I work it

Just butting in for a point of reference in your strength journey.

I successfully bench 3 times a week, using a different % of 1RM with corresponding volume specific to each bench day:

Tues- 95% - 5x2
Thurs -75% - 5x5
Sat -60% - 6x8

 

[RodgerThat]

Just butting in for a point of reference in your strength journey.

I successfully bench 3 times a week, using a different % of 1RM with corresponding volume specific to each bench day:

Tues- 95% - 5x2
Thurs -75% - 5x5
Sat -60% - 6x8

Trail and error for those numbers or are they from a program i haven't seen, they look quite promising adequate volume and intensity and the weekly volume defiantly adds up. Like how there is the 3 day break before the high intensity day as well.

 

[insertnamehere]

Trail and error for those numbers or are they from a program i haven't seen, they look quite promising adequate volume and intensity and the weekly volume defiantly adds up. Like how there is the 3 day break before the high intensity day as well.

Yes, definitely some trial and error up to this point but I develop my own program using Prilepins chart as a reference guide.

 

[insertnamehere]

Trail and error for those numbers or are they from a program i haven't seen, they look quite promising adequate volume and intensity and the weekly volume defiantly adds up. Like how there is the 3 day break before the high intensity day as well.

Actually I messed that up, lol. Its like this:

Tues- 95% - 5x2
Thurs -60% - 6x8
Sat -75% - 5x5

 

[Maxlass]

Thank you. I hope it does. If you find it doesn't come back and we'll keep working at it making little tweaks here and there.

I'm a powerlifter and pretty OCD about my training so I cannot wing my workouts, go by feel, or decide what I want to do when I get to the gym. I need structure and planned progression to make the most efficient use of my time in the gym. I research the hell out of this topic and programming in general bc it interests me greatly. Plus I have an amazing coach who I've worked with for almost 2yrs now and I've learned a lot from him.

Remember success in the gym doesn't fall in your lap. It's planned for. You'll never achieve your goals unless spend time planning on how to work towards them. I log every single lift I do with weights and reps and sets, I have my programming planned out for the next 5months, I try to learn everything I can and apply those things to see what I benefit from the most, I video my main/competition lifts and send them to my coach for form feedback, I drive 2.5hrs one way to lift with my coach whenever possible, and numerous other little things. You can adopt all these to help you get better and it only requires a minimal amount of extra work on top of what you're currently doing.

A quote I read by Texan's Defensive End applies perfectly here and has stuck with me ever since I read it. Watt says:

"Success isn't owned. It is leased and rent is due every day"

Just reading that ^^^ fires me up lol.

I record myself to see what my form looks like rather than just feel. My sister and brother in law has a fair bit of knowledge up their sleeve too so I send it to them for critiquing. Get some strange looks when I'm setting of my phone to record but who gives a shit.