TRT = anxiety /panic attacks

[foreveryoung]

Could be.

Could very well be Adex has caused more problems than anything for me...

And the mental benefits of no AI outweigh the mental benefits of HCG.

Gauging e2 with HCG in the mix has been very difficult. Goes up and down too much day to day.

and that's also why I put no faith in testing, I know myself it feels like estrogen levels are rising and falling by the hour when I am experimenting with that

 

[Jq88]

I fuckin tanked my e2 man...

Haven't taken HCG or AI since Monday yes a little more fat and bulkier but feel bigger stronger more confident more alpha.

Of course the fear is that e2 will go too high...

Forever young I'm with you If I could get by without an AI then I would drop the HCG no brainer.

I wonder if 50mg e3d would do it for me.

I remember when I was 60mg e3d no HCG my e2 was too high.

I also feel more of a kick from IM injections rather than SC. Is there any difference between the two?

 

[foreveryoung]

I personally think IM is way "smoother" and more predictably consistent than SC when it comes to testosterone cypionate

some theorize that sc vs im vs transdermal all have slight differences in estrogens and or dht conversion as well, and for sure there would be a difference in timing of absorption.

 

[Jq88]

Thanks man.

I'm taking the leap.

Ditching AI.

Ditching HCG.

Gonna finally follow the advice that has consistently been giving to me on this forum from yourself and LW64...

Gonna start 50mg (2x/wk) and get tested in a few weeks...

I'll deal with a little bloat if I feel better and have consistent erectile function.

Thoughts on PALEO diet vs more of a plant based diet?

Thanks,

Jeff

 

[Misterboots]

I used to have terrible panic attacks with the same protocol (androgen, armidex, and hcg. I have lower SHBG as well, and am sensitive. I know as soon as my E2 gets slightly high, b/c I get panic attack. I did great on just strait Androgel for 5 years, then my things got hairy. I was overweight, bloated, swollen prostate, panic attacks, moodiness (esp. in am), hot flash's/sweats, and the atrophy and that motivated me as it was pretty obvious I was in trouble. I had went through 3 doctors, before someone recommended on Meso was able to help. Estrogen and it was in the 70's. I tried all kinds of stuff. At first I felt great from low dose hcg, and Armidex too but I experienced what you are describing....hormones fluctuating all over the place. Sometimes Armidex wouldn't do shit, sometimes I crashed my E. Then I found my current protocol, Androgel and Aromasin with two OTCs. The Aromasin just works better, and I would be in trouble for sure if I went back to Armidex. The two OTC's also have worked wonders; 1000 mgs of Calcium D Glucarate and Progesterone Cream. If I ran out of any of these meds, I know my anxiety will soon return, and I am glad I met some good folks here that guided me. I was obese and this protocol got me to where I had the motivation to start going to the gym.and have since lost a good 30 lbs which helps things too. I cut out the HCG, and with this protocol my boys are hanging and plump, as good as ever. I hope sharing what worked for me will if anything give you some ideas. I know it is an aweful place to be, with the whole TRT/HRT Anxiety deal going on. Quality of life will be better once you figure out what works for you. One other thing, I have a professional job that is tough to perform while having Panic/Anxiety. I keep some Benadryl on hand at all times, even to this day, and have found that it does help with the Panic attacks I experienced when I had to be on point (meetings/presentations/etc). Hopefully, you will be dialed into a protocol that clears the anxiety. I share this because it really did help get me through some meetings that would have been horrible without. Just paying it forward as best I can. Respectfully, Boots-man

 

[Jq88]

Appreciate your input man...

I feel re-born now that my stance has changed on HCg.

It's just not necessary. I could go back to my shitty natty levels anytime... But that's not the direction I want to go.

I am prescribed trt and will use it not only to restore T levels... But to have an edge in the gym and put on mass which is one of the major benefits of trt.

T and e2 ratios are so much easier to gauge without HCG. It's much more cut and dry. Steady protocol and adjust with dosing or with a little AI.

The labs will tell the story. We will know anyways based on feel.

The HCG was just too tough to gauge as lw64 called it... A moving target impossible to nail down.

Fuck these new age docs demanding HCG be part of the protocol haha...

MEN have been taking testosterone for decades without any HCG.

Ball size is one of the dumbest arguments I've ever heard.

This forum seems to "get it" more than the others.

No need to over complicate things.

Get a good T score.

Keep e2 in range.

If those two things are on point more than likely we will feel GREAT unless there is some other issue.

I have wasted a lot of time and driven myself crazy but HCG is just not needed on a trt protocol.

Want to be fertile... Come off T... THEN run some HCG and/or clomid should take 6 months max.

OTher then fertility the benefits from hcg are not worth the juggling act that insues once implemented.

There are many drugs that have benefits. We don't take them because they have side effects.

Thank you again FY, LW, and others.

I think it's important that we prioritize our goals and our reason for being on trt in the first place. If we all did that... 95% of the time HCG just doesn't fit in. It just doesn't make Sense.

 

[foreveryoung]

good luck
and still be careful with the AI, if one can get away without using it all the better, but I do realize some have the system that needs it, I thought I needed it too at one time but it seems the body changes through time and now I do much better without any AI and just keep my single injection dose of test down

 

[Misterboots]

I would be afraid to stop AI myself now, but your right, the less meds=the less sides and Aromasin and Armidex are definitely not worth taking if you can get by without. Personal goal is to try to loose another 20 lbs-30 lbs, I'm at 6'1 245 right now and at worst shape was almost 270. Got down to 235, then winter did its thing and back at it. This place really does help with motivation, and I lurk a lot! I believe I ready your log Forever young, unless I have you confused with another member, amazing detail and was closest log to a movie I ever read. You could make a pretty cool movie...never mind...not trying to hijack. Have a great night everyone! Booted

 

[foreveryoung]

Ah, good luck with the weight loss, don't get in a rush, this is a life long journey and you might find that as you get closer to your goal weight your body will be a little better with the estrogen tendencies too