Trying not to do the nube shuffle.

[Burrr]

ripped Jesus died for your ASS sins.

I'm gonna drop a truth bomb here.
you'll probably need TRT after a cycle.
the best way to learn about estro control is to contemplate it while crying.
PCT is worth knowing about, but yours will probably fail.
the tendonitis will haunt you, even worse on cycle.
screwing things up with your endocrine system is a terrible thing for a 20 something ...
old guys... eh, it was fucked anyway.

 

[The ole man]

ripped Jesus died for your ASS sins.

I'm gonna drop a truth bomb here.
you'll probably need TRT after a cycle.
the best way to learn about estro control is to contemplate it while crying.
PCT is worth knowing about, but yours will probably fail.
the tendonitis will haunt you, even worse on cycle.
screwing things up with your endocrine system is a terrible thing for a 20 something ...
old guys... eh, it was fucked anyway.

So with trt therapy, is the amount of test they give you small enough that you dont need on cycle estro control?
And why do you think that my tamox will fail?

And eventho dude acted like a prick when he posted, I still heeded his advice. I'm seeing about TRT... I will hold on too everything I got, and i'm waiting to see what the Dr says and what blood work says..

I moved my work outs up to 4 times a week.. I also started using other machines, lat pull down, rows, fly/rear delt...
Im eating 2500 calories a day. 150 grams protein...
As long as Im making gains, even if small gains, im satisfied.

My energy level is up, and i prob dropped from 23% bfi to 15% and im pretty happy about that.

So I just keep putting in the work, and when I hit that wall, well I guess we will cross that bridge when I get there.

 

[The ole man]

You’re probably developing or already have
bicep tendonitis. Drop the weight and correct your form. But you’ll probably find something insulting in that bit of information and you won’t heed the advice.

Actually I'm not a asshole or hard headed. But I dont let ppl just talk down to me, I dont care what great info you hold. If I want it bad enough, I will find it and learn it myself.. Alot of people on blogs and threads always want to demean ppl just cause they hold a few valuable pieces of info... I get it, put in the work, not spoonfed..
i'm a moderator on a site for Vets and patients, as well as legal residents of legal states on how to procure there own medicine.. I know all about ppl just wanting answers.. But you know what< I provide them with them. I have no reason to not. They desire to know, as I once did, and its a long journey.
I'm sure there are many parallels between these 2 things..

We all hold info that somebody wants...

 

[Burrr]

I'm just a few years older than you and started with the AAS at your age.
for us it's more likely than not that we will see a drop on long term test levels after a cycle.

you wont be content with functioning at a lower than normal test level and will jump on the TRT train.

some guys will absolutely need e2 control at TRT dose of test.
others won't . do bloodwork

 

[The ole man]

So saw my Dr today and he ordered blood work, and I got it completed. Results will be available Mon...
Here was the tests I asked for and was givin..
1.CMP(COMPREHENSIVE METABOLIC PANEL)
2.CBC(COMPLETE BLOOD COUNT WITH DIF)
3.FREE AND TOTAL TESTOSTERONE
4.LIPID PANEL
5.THYROID STIMULATING HORMONE (TSH)

Does that cover all the tests we wanted?
Any other suggestions?

I of course am gonna wait and see if I can get my Dr to prescribe TRT.. But if Not, at least I have some numbers for placebo to compare against...

I appreciate the candor @Burrr ... Kinda straight forward...
As well as the others that have commented here...

 

[The ole man]

So I got an online portal where they post my test results, and I got a couple tests back.

Lipid Panel..
Component Results
Component Your Value Standard Range
CHOLESTEROL 183 mg/dL <200 mg/dL
TRIGLYCERIDES 74 mg/dL <150 mg/dL
HDL CHOLESTEROL 62 mg/dL >40 mg/dL
LDL 106 mg/dL <130 mg/dL
VLDL 15 mg/dL 10 - 50 mg/dL
CHOL/HDL RATIO 3.0 0.0 - 4.4
NON-HDL CHOLESTEROL 121 mg/dL <130 mg/dL


CBC
Component Results
Component Your Value Standard Range
WBC 4.25 10(3)/mcL 4.00 - 12.00 10(3)/mcL
RBC 5.30 10(6)/mcL 4.40 - 5.80 10(6)/mcL
HEMOGLOBIN (HGB) 16.0 g/dL 13.0 - 16.5 g/dL
HEMATOCRIT (HCT) 47.1 % 38.0 - 50.0 %
MCV 88.9 fL 82.0 - 96.0 fL
MCH 30.2 pg 26.0 - 32.0 pg
MCHC 34.0 g/dL 31.0 - 36.0 g/dL
PLATELET COUNT 205 10(3)/mcL 140 - 440 10(3)/mcL
RDW 13.1 % 11.8 - 15.5 %
MPV 11.2 fL 8.0 - 12.6 fL
NEUTROPHILS 58.8 % 40.0 - 68.0 %
LYMPHOCYTES 28.7 % 19.0 - 49.0 %
MONOCYTES 9.2 % 3.0 - 13.0 %
EOSINOPHILS 2.6 % 0.0 - 8.0 %
BASOPHILS 0.7 % 0.0 - 1.0 %
ABSOLUTE NEUTROPHILS 2.50 10(3)/mcL 1.40 - 5.30 10(3)/mcL
ABSOLUTE LYMPHOCYTES 1.22 10(3)/mcL 0.90 - 3.30 10(3)/mcL
ABSOLUTE MONOCYTES 0.39 10(3)/mcL 0.10 - 0.90 10(3)/mcL
ABSOLUTE EOSINOPHIL 0.11 10(3)/mcL 0.00 - 0.50 10(3)/mcL
ABSOLUTE BASOPHILS 0.03 10(3)/mcL 0.00 - 0.10 10(3)/mcL
NRBC PER 100 WBC 0

I guess the rest will be uploaded by monday...
I didnt have no flags for out of range values.
For you guys that live and breathe this life, does any thing stand out that I should be aware of?

Thanks again.....

 

[The ole man]

So if I dont get TRT, this would be my first cycle in theory?
1-12 weeks Test E at 500 ( can I pin this in 1 pin?) Bad PIP?
1-4 weeks epistane 20/30/40/50 ( I have on-cycle meds for the liver,heart) This will be my second cycle of epistane. But I only did 20/30/30/30 first time
1- 14 weeks Arimidex at 1/4 mg ew, adjusted as needed 14-15 weeks Hcg at 250 iu every 5 days
16-20 clomid at 100/100/50/50
16-20 nolva at 40/40/20/20

Does that look better?
I went and researched some threads.
Let me know if Im on the right track at least and show me where I need to maybe make corrections...

Still waiting on the results of my testosterone blood tests..
I share them as soon as I get them...

 

[FourOneDeuxFitt]

I feel like your PCT doses are too high IMO. For a test only cycle I believe you could easily get away and recover properly with Clomid 50/25/25/25 and Nolvadex 40/20/20/20. As far as taking your AI I personally don’t start taking it until I see signs that make me aware my estrogen is too high. Screwing around with my estrogen levels is something I try to avoid at all causes. I’m also not extremely prone to the side at moderate dose. For instance this cycle I hadn’t started adex until week 4 when I started to hold onto water and get a bit of a soft look .5g EOD cleared that up just fine for me and now I’ll finish out the cycle st that dose unless something else comes along that warrants something different being needed.

 

[The ole man]

I feel like your PCT doses are too high IMO. For a test only cycle I believe you could easily get away and recover properly with Clomid 50/25/25/25 and Nolvadex 40/20/20/20. As far as taking your AI I personally don’t start taking it until I see signs that make me aware my estrogen is too high. Screwing around with my estrogen levels is something I try to avoid at all causes. I’m also not extremely prone to the side at moderate dose. For instance this cycle I hadn’t started adex until week 4 when I started to hold onto water and get a bit of a soft look .5g EOD cleared that up just fine for me and now I’ll finish out the cycle st that dose unless something else comes along that warrants something different being needed.

Appreciate it! I used 40/40/20/20 nolva after my 4 weeks of epistane. I prob could of got by on your numbers then too, eh?
So is my usage of hcg at right times, dose?

 

[The ole man]

A question for anybody on TRT..
Do people on TRT also use AAS along side the TRT dose, or other compounds along with the TRT dose?

 

[FourOneDeuxFitt]

Appreciate it! I used 40/40/20/20 nolva after my 4 weeks of epistane. I prob could of got by on your numbers then too, eh?
So is my usage of hcg at right times, dose?

Well if your going on trt then using HCG twice a week during cycle is what I would personally do at that dose of 250iu twice a week. If not going to go on trt I’d wait and start it the day after your last pin at 500iu twice a week and make sure you have at least a solid 4-5 days between your last shot of HCG before you start taking your PCT protocol. Some may use or recommend more HCG. But those numbers have always worked well for me with a mild cycle. I’m not a pro by any means I’m sure others have different opinions and experiences and insight. I’m just telling you what I’ve done in the past.

 

[The ole man]

Well if your going on trt then using HCG twice a week during cycle is what I would personally do at that dose of 250iu twice a week. If not going to go on trt I’d wait and start it the day after your last pin at 500iu twice a week and make sure you have at least a solid 4-5 days between your last shot of HCG before you start taking your PCT protocol. Some may use or recommend more HCG. But those numbers have always worked well for me with a mild cycle. I’m not a pro by any means I’m sure others have different opinions and experiences and insight. I’m just telling you what I’ve done in the past.

I appreciate your opinions and hindsight advice for me..
When you say if I was on TRT you would use HCG, just with the TRT dose? Or would I want to add other compounds?

My diet has been to drop bodyfat the last 4 months, so I have followed the 16 hr fast from 10 pm to 2 pm, where I have a protein shake and a protein bar and 2 hard boiled eggs, then I dont eat supper till 6.. For supper I have anything from Tuna/chicken breasts/salmon/hard boiled eggs/garden salads/green beens/cottage cheese/

I have Mio 0 calorie is what I drink all day, with coffee in the morning with just a tad of reese creamer out the fridge,,, 30 calories..

And a protein bar before bed...

But that was to cut calories to drop bfi...
But on a cycle I would want to up my calories to prob 2500 right?
I am under the impression that I go 40/40/20
protein/carbs/fat while on cycle.
So a breakfast of oatmeal and hard boiled eggs, and a banana added to what I already consume. And then a 4 pm peanut butter sandwich with my high protein Peanut butter, on 100 calorie no sugar wheat bread.. I'm gonna go see what threads I can pull up on diets, see what I can learn..

 

[Dregib]

Yeah bro pin once a week 500mg at a time solid idea, that’ll keep your levels steady as fuck and prevent PIP

 

[The ole man]

Yeah bro pin once a week 500mg at a time solid idea, that’ll keep your levels steady as fuck and prevent PIP

Well it looks as tho its recommended to split into twice a week, like Mon and Thursday.. So thats fine, I can handle that..
Im gonna take it, that the more liquid u pin the worse the pip will be?

 

[Dregib]

I was being sarcastic lol. Every 3.5 days is preferable for test e or Cyp, if you were to pin once a week it would be a rollercoaster as far as your test levels go.

and as far as the PIP goes concentration causes PIP , as well as volume but I’d think concentration even more so . So if you were to pin 2 mls at one time or, 1 ml of test500 it’d be more painful than 2 separate pins of 250mg. you’re going to experience PIP regardless especially your first few weeks, but yeah pin 250mg Monday morning and Thursday evening is how most usually do it.

 

[FourOneDeuxFitt]

I don’t have any experience with being on TRT or “cruising” between cycles. I still do a full PCT at the end of my cycle. So for myself I’d use HCG at the end during the time period between my last pin and starting my PCT making sure to at least give a full 14 days after my last shot of HCG before starting PCT protocol.

Normally when people go from “on cycle” or their “blast” to cruising or TRT however they wanna make it out to be they will use HCG during the blast or while on cycle. Some as well will continue to use it during their cruise and pct too to keep the kids working and etc. now. Normally when your going from a blast to TRT all that Clomid and nolvadex isn’t going to even come into play unless absolutely needed for sides. Some people prefer to do a mini pct at the end of the blast as well before the transition to TRT dose and some people just cruise right on into it only taking an AI where and as needed.

DO NOT run HCG if you have signs of gyno as HCG will only make it worse. For PCT a minimum of 10,000 IU's HCG is needed. When you have a proper PCT planned with a serm and an AI, and you want to run HCG during the last 4 weeks of your cycle, then you might only need 5,000iu's.
An anti-estrogen (Nolva, etc.) is to be used with HCG during your last 4 weeks of cycle.
IMO HCG is best dosed at 500 IU and/or 1000iu, more than that can cause too much aromatization, and some people won't react to less than 500iu. So during the last 4 weeks of a cycle, you shoot 500 IU of HCG twice a week or 1000 IU once a week. For PCT, 500 IU ED or 1000 IU EOD. Do remember estrogen is elevated by two ways from HCG use. Primarily from the sharp rise in testosterone, which allows more testosterone to aromatize to estrogen. Secondly HCG can cause a small amount of estrogen to be produced which is not from the result of aromatizing, and this is the reason that a combination of an anti aromatize such as liquidex/arimidex/letrozole and a estrogen receptor blocker such as nolvadex are ideally used. The nolvadex may also offer some additional benefit to help avoid a negative estrogen feedback to the HPTA during HCG therapy, which would otherwise slightly lessen the effectiveness of the therapy. (So run a small 20mg dose of nolvadex during the period of time you start to finish HCG)

 

[The ole man]

I was being sarcastic lol. Every 3.5 days is preferable for test e or Cyp, if you were to pin once a week it would be a rollercoaster as far as your test levels go.

and as far as the PIP goes concentration causes PIP , as well as volume but I’d think concentration even more so . So if you were to pin 2 mls at one time or, 1 ml of test500 it’d be more painful than 2 separate pins of 250mg. you’re going to experience PIP regardless especially your first few weeks, but yeah pin 250mg Monday morning and Thursday evening is how most usually do it.

I knew you were, but I also knew there was a little nugget of info to be gained by communicating with you..
I appreciate your follow up.
I got another question for you, or whoever..
I got 2 vials of test E 300/ml...
Should I do the math to figure out what 250 would be.. ?
which by my math is about 82.5% of a ml
Or do I just blast 300 twice a week? Or woulds that be too much?

Thanks for the communication!

 

[The ole man]

I don’t have any experience with being on TRT or “cruising” between cycles. I still do a full PCT at the end of my cycle. So for myself I’d use HCG at the end during the time period between my last pin and starting my PCT making sure to at least give a full 14 days after my last shot of HCG before starting PCT protocol.

Normally when people go from “on cycle” or their “blast” to cruising or TRT however they wanna make it out to be they will use HCG during the blast or while on cycle. Some as well will continue to use it during their cruise and pct too to keep the kids working and etc. now. Normally when your going from a blast to TRT all that Clomid and nolvadex isn’t going to even come into play unless absolutely needed for sides. Some people prefer to do a mini pct at the end of the blast as well before the transition to TRT dose and some people just cruise right on into it only taking an AI where and as needed.

DO NOT run HCG if you have signs of gyno as HCG will only make it worse. For PCT a minimum of 10,000 IU's HCG is needed. When you have a proper PCT planned with a serm and an AI, and you want to run HCG during the last 4 weeks of your cycle, then you might only need 5,000iu's.
An anti-estrogen (Nolva, etc.) is to be used with HCG during your last 4 weeks of cycle.
IMO HCG is best dosed at 500 IU and/or 1000iu, more than that can cause too much aromatization, and some people won't react to less than 500iu. So during the last 4 weeks of a cycle, you shoot 500 IU of HCG twice a week or 1000 IU once a week. For PCT, 500 IU ED or 1000 IU EOD. Do remember estrogen is elevated by two ways from HCG use. Primarily from the sharp rise in testosterone, which allows more testosterone to aromatize to estrogen. Secondly HCG can cause a small amount of estrogen to be produced which is not from the result of aromatizing, and this is the reason that a combination of an anti aromatize such as liquidex/arimidex/letrozole and a estrogen receptor blocker such as nolvadex are ideally used. The nolvadex may also offer some additional benefit to help avoid a negative estrogen feedback to the HPTA during HCG therapy, which would otherwise slightly lessen the effectiveness of the therapy. (So run a small 20mg dose of nolvadex during the period of time you start to finish HCG)

My nipps are always hard, is that gyno? Been that way since I was in my 30's They dont never hurt tho...

Awesome on that info. So I take it that HCG will cause some aromatizing in the testies that Nolva and arimidex cant completely control if too much HCG is administered?

And being the half life of Test E, the first 2 weeks after pin use HCG, then 2 more weeks to start PCT, which is 28 days after last pin... That is what I see recommended by a few older cats here, such as The Dr, as well as you.. I think I even sen them say up to 35 days...

Well I will update my cycle info with your recommendations, and repost it..

 

[The ole man]

1-12 weeks Test E 300/ml twice a week
1-4 weeks epistane 20/30/40/50
1- 12 weeks arimidex as needed
13-14weeks hcg at 500 iu twice a week
16-20 clomid at 50/25/25/25
16--20 nolva at 40/20/20/20

I am gonna not run the HCG on cycle because I think I might have some gyno and be prone to it.. If during weeks 13 and 14 if I see gyno flare up, should I discontinue HCG and move on to clomid/nolva or should I use a little nolva with the hcg at a small dose? I am only talking weeks 13 -14.

 

[FourOneDeuxFitt]

My nipps are always hard, is that gyno? Been that way since I was in my 30's They dont never hurt tho...

Awesome on that info. So I take it that HCG will cause some aromatizing in the testies that Nolva and arimidex cant completely control if too much HCG is administered?

And being the half life of Test E, the first 2 weeks after pin use HCG, then 2 more weeks to start PCT, which is 28 days after last pin... That is what I see recommended by a few older cats here, such as The Dr, as well as you.. I think I even sen them say up to 35 days...

Well I will update my cycle info with your recommendations, and repost it..

Sounds about right. I’ve done a good bit of research in the past when first started using it. That seemed to be the best info I could find along with experience from other members and people who have been doing this a lot longer than myself. Again most of what I share with you is simply information I’ve gained from others and what has worked for myself previously. When I run HCG if I’m not already using an AI I will use a small daily dose of nolvadex just to be safe during the duration of my HCG use.

I can’t soeak for your nips constantly being hard. That I honestly don’t know but that’s a starting sign I notice when my estrogen is starting to raise is the nips getting hard to the point I feel like I can feel the damn hair growing in that area haha. Normally followed by them becoming tender to the touch and whatnot normally notice it putting my shirt on/off etc. which like I told you previously was what started to happen about a week ago along with water retention I noticed. So I started with adex .5mg EOD and it’s been under control since.

Seeing your updated post would start HCG week 11-14. Start pct week 16 as you have stated.