My IGF-1 was 138 range 71 to 290 my Dr. told me I am good. SWALE said most Anti-Aging Dr.'s would put me on HGH if I were under 300 is my Dr. blowing smoke. We have talked about my low HGH for some time now that I am on HCG he feels I am good HCG does not bring up GH right. I read the people that get bad Bronchitis and it lasts me most of the winter don't get it on HGH. I need to know what brand to you use. My MedcoHeath drug plain pays for HGH now I think it is called Humatrope. I am need to know if one is under 300 or my level at 138 if I need to get on my Dr.'s ass to get on this.jwtex said:
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
Using HGH to lower SHBG
- Thread starter frankwhardy
- Start date
Phil,
There is a excellent book called "The Life Extension Revolution" by Dr. Philip Miller, which has an excellent section on how, when and why to use HGH. According to this book, simply looking at IGF-1 numbers is not enough, because depending on a number of factors, the meaning of the IGF-1 number changes.
There is a excellent book called "The Life Extension Revolution" by Dr. Philip Miller, which has an excellent section on how, when and why to use HGH. According to this book, simply looking at IGF-1 numbers is not enough, because depending on a number of factors, the meaning of the IGF-1 number changes.
jwtex,
Those numbers are amazing. By the TT number against normals you are middle aged, even more impressive. Question, I assume you had not been doing the IGF numbers at that level while taking selegiline by your posting. Most reports show seleg making nice increases in hGH and IGF-1's. I don't know that you may not be skirting on a problem here with these levels... someone else might know a lot more as I am no endo.
Perhaps just jealousy talking on the gh numbers..
Those numbers are amazing. By the TT number against normals you are middle aged, even more impressive. Question, I assume you had not been doing the IGF numbers at that level while taking selegiline by your posting. Most reports show seleg making nice increases in hGH and IGF-1's. I don't know that you may not be skirting on a problem here with these levels... someone else might know a lot more as I am no endo.
Perhaps just jealousy talking on the gh numbers..
pmgamer18 said:
I believe that most anti-aging doctors are going to be side-stepping away from HGH...
Growth Hormone Deemed Illegal for Off-Label Antiaging Use - Medscape, 10/28/05 - "1988 and 1990 amendments to the Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (FDCA) make off-label distribution or provision of GH to treat aging or age-related diseases illegal in the U.S."
From a very recent article:
Growth Hormone Deemed Illegal for Off-Label Antiaging Use, 10/2005
"1988 and 1990 amendments to the Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (FDCA) make off-label distribution or provision of GH to treat aging or age-related diseases illegal in the U.S."
Growth hormone (GH) is illegal for off-label antiaging use, according to an article in the Oct. 26 issue of JAMA. This article reviews the literature concerning the uses and adverse effects of GH as well as the legal ramifications of selling, using, or prescribing it.
"Prescribing and administering GH has become a routine intervention in an industry that is variably called anti-aging, regenerative, longevity or age management medicine," lead author Thomas Perls, MD, MPH, from Boston University School of Medicine in Massachusetts, said in a news release. "Hundreds of thousands of patients who have received GH in recent years as a purported treatment for aging are unaware that they are receiving the drug illegally."... The FDA has approved GH only for GH deficiency-related syndromes causing short stature in children, adult GH deficiency caused by rare pituitary tumors and their treatment, and muscle-wasting disease associated with HIV and AIDS... "Off-label use for many drugs is a normal and accepted practice in medicine, but that is not true for growth hormone," says coauthor S. Jay Olshansky, PhD, from the University of Illinois at Chicago School of Public Health. "According to laws instituted by Congress more than 10 years ago, HGH can only be distributed for indications specifically authorized by the Secretary of Health and Human Services, and aging and its related disorders are not among them. The use of HGH as an alleged antiaging intervention is a major public health concern not just because it is illegal, but also because its provision for antiaging is not supported by science and it is potentially harmful."... Although GH, unlike anabolic steroids, is not a schedule III drug, Congress specifically authorized the Drug Enforcement Agency to investigate offenses related to HGH distribution. The penalties for distribution or provision of GH for antiaging purposes may include up to five years in prison, or 10 years if the offense involves a minor, with fines of up to $250,000 for an individual or $500,000 for an organization, or alternatively, twice the gross gain or loss from the offense, in addition to forfeiture of property used in or derived from violations of the HGH law...
This point probably needs to be emphasized:
The FDA has approved GH only for GH deficiency-related syndromes causing short stature in children, adult GH deficiency caused by rare pituitary tumors and their treatment, and muscle-wasting disease associated with HIV and AIDS...
So, yes, MedCo might list HGH as one of their approved medications, but unlike most drugs which can be prescribed for ANY kind of off-label use once approved by the FDA, the "1988 and 1990 amendments to the Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (FDCA)" pretty clearly make any type of "off-label" distribution other than for the listed provisions illegal.
As enforcements have started with at least one anti aging doctor recently arrested for such off-label purposes, I would imagine that more and more doctors will shy away from thsi practice....
pmgamer18 said:
I wouldn't be surprised.
Fear of felony prosecution will definitely do that... surprising that after all of these years that now they suddenly take prohormones like Ando off the shelf, start pushing to ban DHEA - and start enforcement of an older law like this that was studiously ignored up until now.
Larry
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HeadDoc
Psychologist
for some, increasing gh thru supplemental hgh may lower shbg but leave free testosterone unchanged.
Acta Endocrinol Suppl (Copenh). 1986;279:164-9. Related Articles, Links
Observations on the role of GH/IGF-1 and sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) in the pubertal development of growth hormone deficient (GHD) children.
Rudd BT, Rayner PH, Thomas PH.
SHBG concentrations in GHD and non GHD children of both sexes were studied in relation to their weight and androgen status. SHBG was inversely related to age in short and control children, but not for GHD. Correction for body weight restored the inverse relationship in these children and improved the correlation for the other groups. DHAS concentrations were similar in GHD and short children, suggesting GH per se does not influence adrenal androgen synthesis. The mean free testosterone in GHD children 12.7 pmol/L, was similar to that in short children, 14.3 pmol/L, and lower than controls 21.2 pmol/L, but consistent with their pubertal status. The linear regression of SHBG on IGF-1 was r = -0.605 (P less than 0.01). It was postulated that IGF-1 and free testosterone may regulate SHBG synthesis. Administration of native and synthetic GH to prepubertal GHD children lowered SHBG without a significant change in TBG, albumin or free testosterone. The fall in SHBG concentration after HGH in GHD children is suggested as a selective mechanism which may lead to improved pubertal development.
PMID: 2946133 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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Acta Endocrinol Suppl (Copenh). 1986;279:164-9. Related Articles, Links
Observations on the role of GH/IGF-1 and sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) in the pubertal development of growth hormone deficient (GHD) children.
Rudd BT, Rayner PH, Thomas PH.
SHBG concentrations in GHD and non GHD children of both sexes were studied in relation to their weight and androgen status. SHBG was inversely related to age in short and control children, but not for GHD. Correction for body weight restored the inverse relationship in these children and improved the correlation for the other groups. DHAS concentrations were similar in GHD and short children, suggesting GH per se does not influence adrenal androgen synthesis. The mean free testosterone in GHD children 12.7 pmol/L, was similar to that in short children, 14.3 pmol/L, and lower than controls 21.2 pmol/L, but consistent with their pubertal status. The linear regression of SHBG on IGF-1 was r = -0.605 (P less than 0.01). It was postulated that IGF-1 and free testosterone may regulate SHBG synthesis. Administration of native and synthetic GH to prepubertal GHD children lowered SHBG without a significant change in TBG, albumin or free testosterone. The fall in SHBG concentration after HGH in GHD children is suggested as a selective mechanism which may lead to improved pubertal development.
PMID: 2946133 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Display Summary Brief Abstract Citation MEDLINE XML UI List LinkOut ASN.1 Related Articles Cited Articles Cited in Books CancerChrom Links Domain Links 3D Domain Links GEO DataSet Links Gene Links Gene (GeneRIF) Links Genome Links Project Links GENSAT Links GEO Profile Links HomoloGene Links Nucleotide Links OMIA Links OMIM Links BioAssay Links Compound Links Compound via MeSH Substance Links Substance via MeSH PMC Links Cited in PMC PopSet Links Probe Links Protein Links SNP Links Structure Links UniGene Links UniSTS Links Show 5 10 20 50 100 200 500 Sort by Author Journal Pub Date Send to Text File Printer Clipboard E-mail Order
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ciobl
New Member
stat1951 said:
stat- back to dhea .... sit down and enjoy .... it was cited by other 6 studies ( pretty high, isn't it )
In view of the
role of CYP7B1 in the prostate, it is possible that some of the
beneficial effects of Ketoconazol could be due to its inhibition
of CYP7B1. If this is the case, 3Adiol itself or even dehydroepiandrosterone
(DHEA) would be of clinical benefit in the
prevention of prostate growth. DHEA has been used as adjuvant
treatment in prostate cancer with mixed success (38). DHEA is
converted in the body to 5-androstene-3,17-diol, which is also
a ligand for estrogen receptors (25, 39) and a substrate for
CYP7B1 (17, 40). According to our model, for DHEA to have
repressive effects on prostatic growth, a functional ER has to
be in the prostate. As cited above (79), studies show that ER
tends to be lost in advanced prostate cancer. The population of
patients who might benefit from 3Adiol or DHEA should first
be assessed for the presence of ER in the prostate.
ciobl
New Member
HeadDoc said:
great study P; did you bump into somthng for adults about the same ?
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frankwhardy
New Member
jwtex said:
Thanks for posting that, JWTex, and thanks to everyone else who's responded. I think that's true about Nettle Root extract: that it may indeed be helpful for lowering SHBG but perhaps only in the context of a high E2 situation (i.e., probably the most typical situation where the SHBG is elevated in response to an E2 level that is too high). In my case, though, I have a high SHBG (60+) with an already normal (sometimes lower-normal) E2 level, so I found that the Nettle Root extract actually made me feel worse (more fatigued), possibly because of overreduction of the E2. (Avena sativa was even worse for me - it severely exacerbated my chronic fatigue.)
So much for my trying HGH now, what with the clarification made of the illegality of its off-use in the Oct. 26 issue of JAMA. Oh well, I suppose I'll have to try a secretagogue-type approach and/or try to improve the amount of deep sleep I'm getting, to see if I can in fact lower my SHBG level by trying to increase GH/IGF-1. Sounds good in theory anyway.
Frank
frankwhardy
New Member
Hi 1cc,
These are my typical baseline numbers from a test panel a few months ago (with no TRT). The SHBG has been tested 3 times (all without TRT) and has varied between 60 to 65; and E2 has been as low as 14. Notice how that even though my T (total and free) are at the bottom of the ranges, my DHT is at the very top (without TRT) - how bizarre is that?:
E2: 28 pg/mL (<56)
Total T: 410 ng/dL (350-890)
SHBG: 60 nmol/L (13-71)
Free T (Calc): 52 pg/mL (47-244)
Free T (Percentage): 1.3 (1.6-2.9) [Below normal]
DHT: 510 pg/mL (155-553)
(My IGF-1 level tested out low-normal at 106ng/mL while I was on TRT.)
Frank
These are my typical baseline numbers from a test panel a few months ago (with no TRT). The SHBG has been tested 3 times (all without TRT) and has varied between 60 to 65; and E2 has been as low as 14. Notice how that even though my T (total and free) are at the bottom of the ranges, my DHT is at the very top (without TRT) - how bizarre is that?:
E2: 28 pg/mL (<56)
Total T: 410 ng/dL (350-890)
SHBG: 60 nmol/L (13-71)
Free T (Calc): 52 pg/mL (47-244)
Free T (Percentage): 1.3 (1.6-2.9) [Below normal]
DHT: 510 pg/mL (155-553)
(My IGF-1 level tested out low-normal at 106ng/mL while I was on TRT.)
Frank
frankwhardy
New Member
Sort of unrelated, but I was going to mention too, that I may be the poster-child for what effects that DHT actually has, given my low T/high DHT situation. And I can tell you that as far as I can ascertain, there's only one: oily skin. Otherwise, I'm very weak and fatigued with zero libido (although no ED problem, so perhaps DHT is important in that respect.)
Frank
Frank
frankwhardy said:
It looks like Nettle (Urtica dioica) will help you a lot. It primarily lowers SHBG, which should increase Free T and at higher doses (i think over 500mg a day), it also lowers DHT. According to the following link you would need about 240mg per day.
http://www.lef.org/protocols/prtcls-txt/t-prtcl-130.html
Nettle
About 90% of testosterone is produced by the testes; the remainder is produced by the adrenal glands. Tes-tosterone functions as an aphrodisiac hormone in brain cells and as an anabolic hormone in the development of bone and skeletal muscle. But testosterone that becomes bound to serum globulin is not available to cell receptor sites and fails to induce a libido effect. It is therefore desirable to increase levels of "free tes-tosterone" in order to ignite sexual arousal in the brain.
As discussed already, a hormone that controls levels of free testosterone is called SHBG. When testosterone binds to SHBG, it loses its biological activity and becomes known as "bound testosterone," as opposed to the desirable "free testosterone." As men age past age 45, SHBG's binding capacity increases almost dramatically--by 40% on average--and coincides with the age-associated loss of libido.
Some studies show that the decline in sexual interest with advancing age is not always due to the amount of testosterone produced, but rather to the increased binding of testosterone to globulin by SHBG. This explains why some older men who are on testosterone replacement therapy do not report a long-term aphrodisiac effect. That is, the artificially administered testosterone becomes bound by SHBG and is not bioavailable to cellular receptor sites where it would normally produce a libido-enhancing effect.
It should be noted that the liver also causes tes-tosterone to bind to globulin. This liver-induced binding of testosterone is worsened by the use of sedatives, antihypertensives, tranquilizers, and alcoholic beverages. The overuse of drugs and alcohol could explain why some men do not experience a libido-enhancing effect when consuming drugs and plant-based aphrodisiacs. An interesting review entitled "How Desire Dies" (Nature, 381/6584, 1996) discusses how frequently prescribed drugs, such as beta-blockers and antidepressants, cause sexual dysfunction. Prescription drugs of all types have been linked to inhibition of libido.
Logically, one way of increasing libido in older men would be to block the testosterone-binding effects of SHBG. This would leave more testosterone in its free, sexually activating form.
A highly concentrated extract from the nettle root provides a unique mechanism for increasing levels of free testosterone. European research has identified constituents of nettle root that bind to SHBG in place of testosterone, thus reducing SHBG's binding of free testosterone (309-313). As the authors of one study stated, these constituents of nettle root "may influence the blood level of free, i.e., active, steroid hormones by displacing them from the SHBG binding site."
The prostate gland also benefits from nettle root. In Germany, nettle root has been used as a treatment for benign prostatic hyperplasia (enlargement of the prostate gland) for decades. A metabolite of testosterone called dihydrotestosterone (DHT) stimulates prostate growth, leading to enlargement. Nettle root inhibits the binding of DHT to attachment sites on the prostate membrane.
Nettle extracts also inhibit enzymes such as 5-alpha reductase that cause testosterone to convert to DHT. It is the DHT metabolite of testosterone that is known to cause benign prostate enlargement, excess facial hair, and hair loss at the top of the head.
frankwhardy
New Member
Yes, I thought Nettle Root extract would be a possible solution as well, but unfortunately it also apparently lowers estrogen levels and I felt even worse on it. My current thinking is that Nettle Root extract is probably only good for high SHBG that is due to high E2. (My high SHBG appears to be idiopathic at this point, since all the usual underlying disease states for a high SHBG have been ruled out, although apparently really any chronic illness of long-standing duration can cause a high SHBG level.)
No, I haven't done the saliva cortisol testing yet. I'm having some cortisol testing done in January, through the endo I'm seeing, and I thought I'd wait for those results (covered by insurance) before paying out-of-pocket for the saliva tests.
Frank
No, I haven't done the saliva cortisol testing yet. I'm having some cortisol testing done in January, through the endo I'm seeing, and I thought I'd wait for those results (covered by insurance) before paying out-of-pocket for the saliva tests.
Frank
Have you tried T Cyp injections to get your T to high normal. I say T Cyp injections, because your DHT is already high and transdermal will make that worse.
This is an excerpt from "The Testosterone Syndrome" - by Dr. Eugene Shippen.
"High levels of testosterone actually depress production of SHBG". page 53
In your case you may want to keep it more stable at the high numbers and you may want to consider injecting every 3 days instead of once a week.
This is an excerpt from "The Testosterone Syndrome" - by Dr. Eugene Shippen.
"High levels of testosterone actually depress production of SHBG". page 53
In your case you may want to keep it more stable at the high numbers and you may want to consider injecting every 3 days instead of once a week.
