Using Peptide Raws Without Lyophilization?

[nixu]

Apologizes if my question is ignorant.

I've tried to do some research on peptide raws and what I've seen is most people emphasize on freeze-drying before using them. From what I understand, lyophilization is primarily done to improve long-term stability during storage. How critical is this step if the intention is to use the raw material relatively quickly?
I would, of course, filter through a 0.22 µm filter, use a high-quality accurate scale for dosing, check pH, and try to maintain sterility to the best of my ability.

Does anyone have experience homebrewing peptide raws without freeze-drying? Would skipping the lyophilization step be possible for GLP or BPC-157 powders?

 

[gainslol]

I've done it and it works but as for safety goes it's hard to say.

It is my understanding that lyophilization isn't only done for stability but by removing the water it also gives less room for bacterial growth.

Measuring small doses accurately can also be difficult and the powder will be exposed to air the entire time.

Milligram scales often have an error rate of 5-10mg and for some peptides that's a lot. This of course becomes less of a problem if you plan to reconstitute more at once.

 

[frenexen]

I do it with every peptide I take. I use a mg accurate scale with draft shield. This will cost at least a few hundred for an accurate one. Use a supplier that will provide water content of raw peptide so you can account in measurements.

Pre-split into small 3-5ml containers and protect from humidity. Then just add BAC and filter into sterile vial when you want to use it 1 at a time.

Freeze drying is needed to protect peptide from humidity in differing environments. Most peptides are much more stable than people think. I've used HGH raws over a year old and they still worked fine. As long as you store properly you shouldn't have any issues.

 

[lipzz17]

I do it with every peptide I take. I use a mg accurate scale with draft shield. This will cost at least a few hundred for an accurate one. Use a supplier that will provide water content of raw peptide so you can account in measurements.

Pre-split into small 3-5ml containers and protect from humidity. Then just add BAC and filter into sterile vial when you want to use it 1 at a time.

Freeze drying is needed to protect peptide from humidity in differing environments. Most peptides are much more stable than people think. I've used HGH raws over a year old and they still worked fine. As long as you store properly you shouldn't have any issues.

Do you use as soon as reconstitute ? Or can be put in fridge ? 1 mg of hgh raw is equivalent to how much of finished product ?

 

[frenexen]

Do you use as soon as reconstitute ? Or can be put in fridge ? 1 mg of hgh raw is equivalent to how much of finished product ?

You can store it in the fridge like any reconstituted peptide after filtering. HGH specifically though lacks some excipients that are commonly added to enhance stability so I’d use within a couple days unless you add your own to the raw.

1mg = 3 IU, but you need to account for any water content or additives added by your supplier of course.

 

[lipzz17]

You can store it in the fridge like any reconstituted peptide after filtering. HGH specifically though lacks some excipients that are commonly added to enhance stability so I’d use within a couple days unless you add your own to the raw.

1mg = 3 IU, but you need to account for any water content or additives added by your supplier of course.

Hmm i see, a little bit complicated haha, need a very good scale too i suppose, semi analytical can be used ?

 

[frenexen]

Hmm i see, a little bit complicated haha, need a very good scale too i suppose, semi analytical can be used ?

I’m sure as long as the brand is good. I use an ohaus spx123. Accurate and not too expensive

 

[Dtol28]

You can store it in the fridge like any reconstituted peptide after filtering. HGH specifically though lacks some excipients that are commonly added to enhance stability so I’d use within a couple days unless you add your own to the raw.

1mg = 3 IU, but you need to account for any water content or additives added by your supplier of course.

What excipients can be added to provide stability and sterility? Would phenol be an option here? I know Eli Lilly adds phenol to their Mounjaro injection pens.

 

[jwm]

I've been using reta motsc kpv ghkcu raws for a year now. The reta did sweat a bit but other than that it was effective. I use an analytical balance scale found on amazon for about 500$. GHKCU raws are insanely cheap and can even be sourced from amazon. They also seem to be really stable.

 

[Ghoul]

What excipients can be added to provide stability and sterility? Would phenol be an option here? I know Eli Lilly adds phenol to their Mounjaro injection pens.

Tirz, both Mounjaro and Zepbound have no preservatives of any kind, including Benzyl Alcohol found in BAC. BA reduces stability, encourages aggregation over time, and would actually shorten the 2 year shelf life of the pens. But for us it’s a necessary evil, since we’re not dealing with an aseptic, perfectly sterile single dose cartridge. No BA would shorten the lifespan of the vial as bacteria multiply, and be a health hazard, obviously.



But they can sterilize with radiation after the cart is sealed (though with 100% aseptic manufacturing this is just a precastion, everything used is perfectly sterile and assembled in a sterile environment).

There’s much more to excipients than storage stability, though that’s a vital function of the formula.

Another is to ensure proper stability and absorption once it’s injected, by conditioning tissues to properly absorb the peptide,

No need to reinvent the wheel. Pharma spends millions of dollars perfecting these formulas, they’re public information. Easy to find, and all you need to do is copy their work.

For rHGH I’d choose one of the more recent pen formulations (they get better with each generation),

 

[Photon]

Tirz, both Mounjaro and Zepbound have no preservatives of any kind, including Benzyl Alcohol found in BAC. BA reduces stability, encourages aggregation over time, and would actually shorten the 2 year shelf life of the pens. But for us it’s a necessary evil, since we’re not dealing with an aseptic, perfectly sterile single dose cartridge. No BA would shorten the lifespan of the vial as bacteria multiply, and be a health hazard, obviously.

Phenol is used in the multi use vials.
Also used in insulin vials instead of b.a.

https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/documents/product-information/mounjaro-epar-product-information_en.pdf

 

[Mr.AAJR]

Why anyone would bother with using raws when lyophilized powder is so cheap from China? Are raws that much cheaper?

 

[gainslol]

Why anyone would bother with using raws when lyophilized powder is so cheap from China? Are raws that much cheaper?

It depends on the peptide but the savings can be pretty severe.

For example, just picking 2 random sources:

Snap-8 - 10 mg kit $45
Snap-8 - 1 gram raws $95

The first one being a kit would be 100mg total, so in the end the gram raws are a lot cheaper, especially if you need that type of quantity.

Tirz used to be 50% cheaper but that is usually not the case anymore due to how cheap the vials have become.

 

[jwm]

GHKCU is 7$ a gram on Amazon with COA and 99.98% purity. KPV is 115$ for a gram. Reta is getting on par in vial prices with raws so not worth it as much. But some of these outliers are horribly overpriced in vials. Mots-c is 160 a gram for example. That lets me cheaply do 5mg every day. Someone mentioned they were able to get hgh raw but I have not been able to yet.

 

[Jojolion]

GHKCU is 7$ a gram on Amazon with COA and 99.98% purity. KPV is 115$ for a gram. Reta is getting on par in vial prices with raws so not worth it as much. But some of these outliers are horribly overpriced in vials. Mots-c is 160 a gram for example. That lets me cheaply do 5mg every day. Someone mentioned they were able to get hgh raw but I have not been able to yet.

How did they cap the raw HGH? I have some raw hgh and looking for guidance

 

[Swedishsteel]

It depends on the peptide but the savings can be pretty severe.

For example, just picking 2 random sources:

Snap-8 - 10 mg kit $45
Snap-8 - 1 gram raws $95

The first one being a kit would be 100mg total, so in the end the gram raws are a lot cheaper, especially if you need that type of quantity.

Tirz used to be 50% cheaper but that is usually not the case anymore due to how cheap the vials have become.

Wich vendor is this? i assume you mean food grade snap 8 and not cosmetic grade. Like how some compare ghk cu aka food grade sterile vials vs cosmetic grade raws

Do your vendor have ss31? just made a thread about ss31 raws. would really wanna know the pricing per gram. as 500mg vials are 220-280 usd. i wonder what 1g can be bought for

 

[Kendog]

I’ve just ordered 1g of MOTS C lyophilised but without excipients. This seller clearly has a market for the product but I’m curious and yet to establish what other buyers are doing with the product in absence of filler.

I’m curious more than anything which is why I placed the order and will perhaps trial it once I’ve had it tested.

 

[Swedishsteel]

GHKCU is 7$ a gram on Amazon with COA and 99.98% purity. KPV is 115$ for a gram. Reta is getting on par in vial prices with raws so not worth it as much. But some of these outliers are horribly overpriced in vials. Mots-c is 160 a gram for example. That lets me cheaply do 5mg every day. Someone mentioned they were able to get hgh raw but I have not been able to yet.

Interesting. So its half the price, raw powders. As 400mg mots c is 180 usd.. 1000mg raws are 160. thats much more worth it price wise

But what about ss31, that might be another one were raws are much lower. Do you know the gram price of ss31?

 

[Swedishsteel]

I’ve just ordered 1g of MOTS C lyophilised but without excipients. This seller clearly has a market for the product but I’m curious and yet to establish what other buyers are doing with the product in absence of filler.

I’m curious more than anything which is why I placed the order and will perhaps trial it once I’ve had it tested.

Wich vendor?

 

[Kendog]

Interesting. So its half the price, raw powders. As 400mg mots c is 180 usd.. 1000mg raws are 160. thats much more worth it price wise

But what about ss31, that might be another one were raws are much lower. Do you know the gram price of ss31?

My source 236USD

That’s said the buyer is responsible for import fees.