Voting on Change

[Masters Power]

I ain't beggin for shit. And yes plenty of your DO-boys are assuming the responsibility and leading the crusade for whatever cause they concocted from your musings.

... it's an epic cluster fuck. I respect your rigid stance on "big brother" and censorship - that is why we are here. But without a stance and concise leadership, this infant revolution will drown in it's bathtub... Or worse, continue the way it has.

I'm not looking to pick a fight hotdog but I'm not sure how much clearer Millard can be. He has made it very clear some of the things he isn't happy about and that he feels while the board is strong that there is always room for improvement.

He has also always made it abundantly clear that MESO is a completely uncensored forum which means that any changes will have to come from the members themselves and by extension that will likely have to come from the most respected members.

So we can post all we want about yes and no votes regarding sources, the reality is sources will continue to be allowed to post whatever they want whenever they want it will be up to the members to call them out and ultimately drive them away letting those source threads die.

Forgive me Millard for over simplifying your points but it has become very clear reading through a number of these new threads that no matter how well you state your position a lot of people don't get it and this is not specifically targeted at hotdog as I have seen similar posts by many others.

 

[hotdog23]

NP MP

I'm not looking to pick a fight hotdog but I'm not sure how much clearer Millard can be. He has made it very clear some of the things he isn't happy about and that he feels while the board is strong that there is always room for improvement.

He has also always made it abundantly clear that MESO is a completely uncensored forum which means that any changes will have to come from the members themselves and by extension that will likely have to come from the most respected members.

So we can post all we want about yes and no votes regarding sources, the reality is sources will continue to be allowed to post whatever they want whenever they want it will be up to the members to call them out and ultimately drive them away letting those source threads die.

Forgive me Millard for over simplifying your points but it has become very clear reading through a number of these new threads that no matter how well you state your position a lot of people don't get it and this is not specifically targeted at hotdog as I have seen similar posts by many others.

I think I'm reading him loud and clear. More just commenting on our current course and discussion as an ineffectual agent for change... Just one mans opinion though. We will see where this takes us

 

[Johnson513]

Also, the whole legality aspect I see being mentioned in other threads I think is being blown out of proportion too, its as if guys think Meso is one more new amateur source away from being raided. It's good to keep in mind the nature of your activities, but I can't help but feel its just adding unnecessary cause for alarm, and is pointing the discussion in the wrong direction too.

This ^^^^^^


The whole "just post your email, no price list and sorry but you can participate in discussion" routine is totally FEAR based.... That can possibly be an end result, but there has to be a discussion.


Also,
I don't know if ALL sources would come here to defend their products or answer to any problems. @flesner and others have had problems with Superior, but I never saw him (Superior) on here explaining how he was going to fix things.
Flesner had to keep us up to date on what was happening.

I feel like MESO is one of the, if not the only place that is producing COUNTLESS bloodtests, labmax tests and soon MS/LC tests that finally shine a light on these UGLs that have been sneaking by on guy "feeling like its legit" gear....

I go back and forth on ALL of this... I feel like the SCoC is getting a bad rap because UGLs have shitty gear. I mean think about it, would there be as BIG of an issue if there were 4 UGLs here that went through the SCoC process and produced gear that matches their label? At the same point, I understand the "invite" theory pertaining to the SCoC....

 

[MoriorInvictus]

I can't give you a simple yes or no answer.

YES, I am VERY HAPPY with the way the forum is currently operating.

YES, I want to CHANGE the forum because there is room for IMPROVEMENT and I want to make it BETTER.

NO, I don't like sources spamming the forum as if it were a sales platform.

YES, I think sources should be allowed to participate in discussion and answer member questions.

My goal was to see if people truly wanted the forum platform to be modified.

From what I could tell you have 2 groups of people in this debate:
1) The individuals who would like the SRC's in the Underground forum to have less freedom to post info as they wish.
2) The individuals who feel the Underground forum operates well the way it is and why fix it if it isn't broken?

Everyone has been stating there opinion on this topic for a few days and there really is no outline on a new set of "rules" so to speak. So really we are all just spinning our wheels.

I view it the same as any other democratic voting system. First you poll the people (forum) to see if there is even enough individuals that feel this topic is worthy of putting to a vote. If there is a majority or even a significant number of people who want change, then a measure is drafted and the people vote. That was my only objective!

 

[Voltrader]

This discussion and debate is still in its infancy.

It's too early to be making decisions and giving ultimatums to sources.

It is also too early to be taking polls, and the solution has very little to do with a yes or no attitude to sourcing , but I do like these threads regardless simply because it promotes further debate, so I have no issues with the threads being made as a response to the discussion that started in other threads.

This isn't really a matter of having sources or not, or enforcement vs no enforcement, or whatever guys are making it out to be.

Also, the whole legality aspect I see being mentioned in other threads I think is being blown out of proportion too, its as if guys think Meso is one more new amateur source away from being raided. It's good to keep in mind the nature of your activities, but I can't help but feel its just adding unnecessary cause for alarm, and is pointing the discussion in the wrong direction too.

The solution is promoting a change in culture among Meso members. Drop the eagerness to give every new bathtub a chance to make his million, and stop thinking in extremes and absolutes.

That is where the discussion should be focused on at this stage.

We can have sources participate in discussion without trying to peddle their wares, it's not laughable or crazy like some guys make it out to be. Things aren't always black and white, thinking in extremes is counter productive.

This right here.....I stand with Weighted Chinup most of his posts I agree with. Nice way to articulate your thoughts. I am having a hard time myself doing this these days......year end. The part about polls and votes is spot on. It is a uncensored forum probably the closest thing I have seen that is comparable to anarchy. Do you think in the end it will be polls and votes at what makes change around here. No it will be the guys willing to put in the work for the direction they like to see Meso go.

I also remember early this year we were doing a good job at educating new members, keeping threads clean of sensitive info, how to navigate Meso. Somewhere in the second half of this year it has all fallen to the wayside. Members were joining and a weak later they were blasting guys. We need to continue to do a better job at educating the new member this will go hand in hand with stopping some of the spamming.

I think several of us saw this coming there were some riffs this Summer that were pre-cursors to why we are here today. It is a good thing and it is good to hear from the people who plan on continuing or starting an active role on this board. Lets just not let this consume us.

 

[pumpingiron22]

I'm not looking to pick a fight hotdog but I'm not sure how much clearer Millard can be. He has made it very clear some of the things he isn't happy about and that he feels while the board is strong that there is always room for improvement.

He has also always made it abundantly clear that MESO is a completely uncensored forum which means that any changes will have to come from the members themselves and by extension that will likely have to come from the most respected members.

So we can post all we want about yes and no votes regarding sources, the reality is sources will continue to be allowed to post whatever they want whenever they want it will be up to the members to call them out and ultimately drive them away letting those source threads die.

Forgive me Millard for over simplifying your points but it has become very clear reading through a number of these new threads that no matter how well you state your position a lot of people don't get it and this is not specifically targeted at hotdog as I have seen similar posts by many others.

You get it! As I have said before there is a way to do this. And as stated above its up to us. Some times it takes a real man to do the right thing what you selfishly want and whats best for you family. Also alot of people fail to realize that some one is ultimately responsible for this site.hint hint. And atm we our involving this board in types of activity that should not be and the kind that can get some one big house trouble.
I do not want to be responsible for that!
Buy having source only be able to participate in Q&A is not illegal. If you decide to go further its called email by taking things off site you help not bring risk to the board. ( Dont get me wrong I like sources too. And yes its been very convenient but as I stated before you have to be unselfish for you family protection. And as a older members I agree I feel like some of the guys dont share enough intel on there private sources from other board or wherever.
But I also understand that they keep it hush. There are so many new members here just to get. And the members vs unregistered members is out rages. I dont think unregistered members should be allowed to look on here.
I was here when we had a mod and everyone talk in code and shadows I felt in the dark not a good feeling But we have been provided a middle ground to talk openly about sources and if they want to join the convo great! But no sales ads no t/a times. Let's not take advantage or abuse what has been giving to us. I'd rather not go back to the dark ages.

 

[pumpingiron22]

If any thing can we vote on taking all the price list that are up down?

 

[redrum720]

NO NO NO NO
stop bitching and complaining all sources should follow the scoc if not cut them off and if one does not like a ugl then don't fuck with them all those bitch ass scamming SOB will come to light so all should ask the proper questions to sniff them out

 

[MoriorInvictus]

If any thing can we vote on taking all the price list that are up down?

I like this idea. Along with the sources being limited to only commenting on their own individual thread.

 

[Millard]

My goal was to see if people truly wanted the forum platform to be modified.

From what I could tell you have 2 groups of people in this debate:
1) The individuals who would like the SRC's in the Underground forum to have less freedom to post info as they wish.
2) The individuals who feel the Underground forum operates well the way it is and why fix it if it isn't broken?

Or

(1) Individuals who want to encourage sources to use the forum as a sales platform

(2) Individuals who DO NOT want to encourage sources to use the forum as a sales platform.

 

[pumpingiron22]

2!

 

[greenddog1]

2!!!

 

[TruthV]

Or

(1) Individuals who want to encourage sources to use the forum as a sales platform

(2) Individuals who DO NOT want to encourage sources to use the forum as a sales platform.

This is a very important decision right here that decides the future of this forum, be careful Millard. Fact is there are members here using handles to crush good labs and promote or avoid posting in threads about their own labs of which they have an interest in. Look at the Astro thread where certain members never crushed a source. .it came out in the end Astro is a piece of shit.
If I gather correctly Millard would like a free and open forum.. while also allowing sources to answer questions and resolve issues.
What I suggest is this;
Sources display their existence in their own thread, a sticky thread. Only people that have ordered from the lab may post their experiences. Who else is worthy to judge? If a source is bunk it comes out like astro..

 

[Big_paul]

2

 

[TruthV]

(2) Individuals who DO NOT want to encourage sources to use the forum as a sales platform.

These guys want it to remain as it is.. to promote their vested interests on the down low..as it works currently.

Because .....what else is this steroid underground for?? Bashing eachother and bringing nothing to the table except trash talk on threads and branding labs startup bathtub brewers without an ounce of proof.. It's evident what's going on here. .

 

[Flounder]

Sources display their existence in their own thread, a sticky thread. Only people that have ordered from the lab may post their experiences. Who else is worthy to judge?

No this is bullshit. I have been told this by many a shill that if I'm not using the product to stay off a thread. Granabolic and Karl's million dollar labs had shills trying to pull that shit on me and see where their scamming asses wound up. I will always speak up when shit doesn't smell right. That's what Meso is all about.

 

[CensoredBoardsSuck]

This is a very important decision right here that decides the future of this forum, be careful Millard. Fact is there are members here using handles to crush good labs and promote or avoid posting in threads about their own labs of which they have an interest in. Look at the Astro thread where certain members never crushed a source. .it came out in the end Astro is a piece of shit.
If I gather correctly Millard would like a free and open forum.. while also allowing sources to answer questions and resolve issues.
What I suggest is this;
Sources display their existence in their own thread, a sticky thread. Only people that have ordered from the lab may post their experiences. Who else is worthy to judge? If a source is bunk it comes out like astro..

Shut the fuck up, H2. Sources have no say in this. Why are you even back here? You were banned for issuing death threats and now you're trying to weasel your way back in with a new handle. Typical scamming bathtub lab.

Fly the fuck out of here, asshole. No one gives a shit WHAT you think.

 

[Moose]

[QUOTE="weighted chinup,Also, the whole legality aspect I see being mentioned in other threads I think is being blown out of proportion too, its as if guys think Meso is one more new amateur source away from being raided. It's good to keep in mind the nature of your activities, but I can't help but feel its just adding unnecessary cause for alarm, and is pointing the discussion in the wrong direction too.
[/QUOTE]
^^this. If the forum demand change then let's do it for the right reasons. Stop being paranoid about LE kicking down the MESO doors.

 

[bickel29]

This is a very important decision right here that decides the future of this forum, be careful Millard. Fact is there are members here using handles to crush good labs and promote or avoid posting in threads about their own labs of which they have an interest in. Look at the Astro thread where certain members never crushed a source. .it came out in the end Astro is a piece of shit.
If I gather correctly Millard would like a free and open forum.. while also allowing sources to answer questions and resolve issues.
What I suggest is this;
Sources display their existence in their own thread, a sticky thread. Only people that have ordered from the lab may post their experiences. Who else is worthy to judge? If a source is bunk it comes out like astro..

Hey Truth, what is your other handle here? You sure seem awful comfortable, and awful familiar with things, for a guy that joined yesterday.

 

[Moose]

2!