Took some bad advice last cycle and want to do it right this time. I'm planning on another cycle of 500 mg Sustanon and 300 mg Deca for 10 weeks, stopping the deca a week before the test. Last time, I'm certain I didn't do PCT correctly and felt the effects. What EXACTLY do I need to do to recover properly? I talk to my doctor about this but he's a dope. I want to find the sources I need before I get started. Thanks.
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
Want to do PCT right this time
- Thread starter sabredude
- Start date
van-man
New Member
PCT, more specifically, recovery is a function of time not dosage. You need to give plenty of time for your HPTA to restart and plenty of time for levels to normalize before you withdraw SERM's from the equation. For this reason, a simple PCT of nolvadex at 20mg Ed for 6-8 weeks followed by a taper off will yield the most favorable results.
If you feel the need to introduce HCG in order to assist in recovering from testicular atrophy, then you need to do this toward the end of your cycle, but not after the AAS has cleared.
I've studied this quite a bit and have even experimented on myself to try and understand the recovery process better, and after nearly a year and over a dozen blood tests, I consider the gold standard of PCT's to be:
250iu HCG Ed or 500iu Eod for two weeks (last two weeks of the cycle) followed by 8 weeks of nolvadex at 20mg Ed. Concluding with a taper off of the nolvadex. The taper should be a 50% reduction in does every week until reaching 2.5mg, then off.
there are some very wise men here who've been running this identical PCT for years, and who will roll their eyes at my labor into what they consider common sense, but I just wanted to know what was better about such an approach. And let me tell you, this is money! Simple, safe, and effective.
If you feel the need to introduce HCG in order to assist in recovering from testicular atrophy, then you need to do this toward the end of your cycle, but not after the AAS has cleared.
I've studied this quite a bit and have even experimented on myself to try and understand the recovery process better, and after nearly a year and over a dozen blood tests, I consider the gold standard of PCT's to be:
250iu HCG Ed or 500iu Eod for two weeks (last two weeks of the cycle) followed by 8 weeks of nolvadex at 20mg Ed. Concluding with a taper off of the nolvadex. The taper should be a 50% reduction in does every week until reaching 2.5mg, then off.
there are some very wise men here who've been running this identical PCT for years, and who will roll their eyes at my labor into what they consider common sense, but I just wanted to know what was better about such an approach. And let me tell you, this is money! Simple, safe, and effective.
dennis
New Member
Van ..you are alittle foggy on your statement saying "last two weeks of cycle".I think you are saying this..on a 12 weeker start hcg 250 iu ed end of week 12 following last shot of test for 2 weeks.Then start nolva on week 14.Or do you mean to say on 12 week cycle start hcg on week 10 ???Just want you to be clear for this guy asking the question..and where the hell have you been old boy ????van-man said:
van-man
New Member
Ok, regardless of cycle length (within reason here), one should run HCG during the last two weeks of the actual cycle. So, for a ten weeker you run the HCG during weeks 9 and 10.
I personally always run 10mg of nolvadex while I am taking HCG just to be sure that I don't incurr any damage from a potential estrogen spike. So, technically speaking, I'm on nolvadex an additional two weeks. But, since there is no recovery taking place attributible to the nolvadex during that time, I do not consider it actual PCT time for the SERM. Real recovery begins once AAS has reached non suppressive levels in the blood stream.
On a seperate note, if your cycle is stupid long, you should probably run the HCG during the cycle with the 250iu twice a week method because if you waited till the end to run it, the atrophy would probably be so bad that you wouldn't get much testicular function restarted in the two week window.
Dennis - PM
I personally always run 10mg of nolvadex while I am taking HCG just to be sure that I don't incurr any damage from a potential estrogen spike. So, technically speaking, I'm on nolvadex an additional two weeks. But, since there is no recovery taking place attributible to the nolvadex during that time, I do not consider it actual PCT time for the SERM. Real recovery begins once AAS has reached non suppressive levels in the blood stream.
On a seperate note, if your cycle is stupid long, you should probably run the HCG during the cycle with the 250iu twice a week method because if you waited till the end to run it, the atrophy would probably be so bad that you wouldn't get much testicular function restarted in the two week window.
Dennis - PM
eleven11
New Member
van-man said:
I like what your saying BUT if the test you're running is eth/cyp you need to run the HCG for 2more wks AFTER your last shot while that test is still in system,(starting a couple wks before last shot is fine at those low doses) then start your PCT. I personnally run 300ius EOD thru entire cycle these days and since I use prop Ill take my last shot 3-4days after my last shot of prop then wait 3days and start nolva...................11
Beefy
New Member
What about clomid? Isn't it needed?
van-man
New Member
clomid increases the odds of a relapse in some individuals. Also, it does not assist in the increase of LH output. In fact, it does the opposite. It does, however, have the added benefit of increased sperm production over nolvadex. Although, considering the increased emotional sides, vision threats, etc. I don't consider it to be a worth while addition. Furthermore, I haven't been able to produce any results that would suggest any synergy between nolva and clomid with regard to HPTA output.
If someone wanted to use it though, probably a limited run during the first three weeks would be best. It is possible that clomid may help with ITT (intratesticular testosterone) production better than nolvadex considering its propensity toward increased sperm production.
If someone wanted to use it though, probably a limited run during the first three weeks would be best. It is possible that clomid may help with ITT (intratesticular testosterone) production better than nolvadex considering its propensity toward increased sperm production.
terrorizer2
New Member
My personal opinion would be to run HCG during the last week of the cycle then for 10 to 14 days until starting PCT.I would do 500iu's EOD.Nolvadex start at 60mg day one,followed by 2 weeks at 40mg a day then 5 weeks of 20mg a day,then 1 week at 10mg a day.Clomid is an optional item and would run at the start of PCT at 100mg a day for 2 weeks,then 50mg a day for 2 weeks.
www.muscletalk.co.uk
www.muscletalk.co.uk
extremefighter
New Member
Week 1 - Clomid: 100mg/day, HCG: 500 IU/day, Aromasin 20mg/day, Vit. E 1000 IU/day, IGF-1 20mcg/day,4ius of HGH
Week 2 - Clomid: 100mg/day, HCG: 500 IU/day, Aromasin 20mg/day, Vit. E: 1000 iu/day,IGF-1 20mcg/day,4ius of HGH
Week 3 - Clomid: 100mg/day, HCG: 500 IU/day, Aromasin 20mg/day, Vit. E: 1000 IU/day,IGF-1 20mcg/day,4ius of HGH
Week 4 - Clomid: 100mg/day, Aromasin 20mg/day,IGF-1 20mcg/day,4ius of HGH
Week 5 - Clomid: 100mg/day,IGF-1 20mcg/day,4ius of HGH
Week 6 - Clomid: 100mg/day,IGF-1 20mcg/day,4ius of HGH
Dostinex .25mg every 4-5 days in the first month.
Week 2 - Clomid: 100mg/day, HCG: 500 IU/day, Aromasin 20mg/day, Vit. E: 1000 iu/day,IGF-1 20mcg/day,4ius of HGH
Week 3 - Clomid: 100mg/day, HCG: 500 IU/day, Aromasin 20mg/day, Vit. E: 1000 IU/day,IGF-1 20mcg/day,4ius of HGH
Week 4 - Clomid: 100mg/day, Aromasin 20mg/day,IGF-1 20mcg/day,4ius of HGH
Week 5 - Clomid: 100mg/day,IGF-1 20mcg/day,4ius of HGH
Week 6 - Clomid: 100mg/day,IGF-1 20mcg/day,4ius of HGH
Dostinex .25mg every 4-5 days in the first month.
van-man
New Member
Never, never, never use an AI in post cycle. that is just plain dangerous to your health. Anthony Roberts should be shot for leading so many inexperienced AAS users to suffer from his idiotic advice.
Don't believe me? Venture over to the men's health forum and ask about fellas who've had problems because of AI's in PCT.
Don't believe me? Venture over to the men's health forum and ask about fellas who've had problems because of AI's in PCT.
eleven11
New Member
van-man said:
In what way ? also why does this board post so many of his articals ? just asking.....................11
van-man
New Member
eleven11 said:
AI's of all variety are becoming notorious for their propensity toward significantly increased estrogen sensitivity in all areas of the body. (brain, breast tissue, etc.) Sure, it gives the false impression of a wonderful PCT during use, but after the AI clears one should expect to have a complete HPTA stall and instant gyno from seemingly normal levels of estrogen.
I have seen a few people who didn't get the gyno after use, but everyone I've seen has stalled and thus, had to start PCT all over again.
And you see him here because some people think he's edgy, but his days are numbered I'm sure.
