What does actual Progesterone do? And why are Tren/Ment/Deca more powerful for being Progestigienic?

[Para_33]

I wonder if anyone knows what taking actual progesterone would do?

If the progesterone activity of 19-Nors Tren, ment, Deca are part of why they’re so anabolic, would taking testosterone and bioidentical Progesterone have any bit of a similar effect ?

One thing idea on why this may be: Tren, Ment, Deca are strong ligands, and thus have high affinity for the AR which results In them also having moderate/high affinity for other receptors like PR, GR, MR etc… or is it actually the specific affinity that these drugs have for the PR that makes them more anabolic ?

 

[Zeus45]

my understanding is that tren and other 19nors are all synthetic progestins and bind to the PR like progesterone does. 19nors are jack of all trades , it binds the AR , PR, GR etc. while you can control prolactin build up from 19nors, controlling progesterone is different because not many ppl expierment with the anti progesterone Mifepristone

 

[Type-IIx]

Article on distinguishing progestins, prolactin, and progestagenic androgens (e.g., Tren, MENT, Deca) & SERM vs. AI logic [by Type-IIx]

 

[AlwaysHungry]

There was a testosterone in the 90's French brand can't remember the name , this testosterone had some progesterone in it people said that was the shit idk.

 

[Para_33]

There was a testosterone in the 90's French brand can't remember the name , this testosterone had some progesterone in it people said that was the shit idk.

Interesting. It was some type of injectable formula I’m assuming ?

I mean, people seem to attribute many of the anabolic effects of the 19-nor drugs to their ability to act at the Progesterone receptor. So unless these drugs are acting at the PR as antagonist or some type of selective antagonist/agonist in different tissues, then it seems plausible that bioidentical progesterone could assist in the anabolic effect of testosterone etc

 

[AlwaysHungry]

Interesting. It was some type of injectable formula I’m assuming ?

I mean, people seem to attribute many of the anabolic effects of the 19-nor drugs to their ability to act at the Progesterone receptor. So unless these drugs are acting at the PR as antagonist or some type of selective antagonist/agonist in different tissues, then it seems plausible that bioidentical progesterone could assist in the anabolic effect of testosterone etc

I was injectable testosterone and it just had some progesterone in it

 

[Type-IIx]

There was a testosterone in the 90's French brand can't remember the name , this testosterone had some progesterone in it people said that was the shit idk.

Testoluton (testosterone propionate & progesterone) was used in female sex disorders to aid in achieving climax. Great way to cause problems for a man. Progesterone (P4) is not anabolic.

 

[Zeus45]

Testoluton (testosterone propionate & progesterone) was used in female sex disorders to aid in achieving climax. Great way to cause problems for a man. Progesterone (P4) is not anabolic.

don't you think that progesterone is uncontrollable on high dosage tren? prolactin can be controlled by caber but to my knowledge people are not using anti-progesterone medications.

 

[Ridethelightningbarefoot]

The synthetic hormones are engineered for a purpose other wise you have the effects that body naturally produces. Progesterone is for pregnancy not hypertrophy. Tren is for cattle does similar things in humans most effectively utilized for anti catabolism. Nandrolone was originally created for hypogonadism but is commonly used for bulking cycles. so forth and so on. There is no magical hidden key especially that no one has heard of. The biggest mother fuckers take t4, hgh, insulin, and lots of anabolics. You eat your ass off and train. Not everyone that does this will end up like dorian, chris, or jay either

 

[Type-IIx]

don't you think that progesterone is uncontrollable on high dosage tren? prolactin can be controlled by caber but to my knowledge people are not using anti-progesterone medications.

No... If Tren shows increased progesterone it's because of cross-reactivity (false elevation due to Tren being cross-reactive in the progesterone assay). Typically, nandrolone (Deca, NPP) and exemestane (Aromasin) have some cross-reactivity with these progesterone assays.

Prolactin is lowered by Tren (and androgens generally, particularly nonaromatizable androgens). It can be increased by estrogens (e.g., aromatic products of MENT, Test, Dbol, Deca, EQ).

Using anti-progesterone medications would be pretty stupid since progestagenic androgens are not progesterone (P4)... I linked an article above, you should probably read it, it addresses the root of the confusion underpinning all of these misconceptions.

 

[Para_33]

No... If Tren shows increased progesterone it's because of cross-reactivity (false elevation due to Tren being cross-reactive in the progesterone assay). Typically, nandrolone (Deca, NPP) and exemestane (Aromasin) have some cross-reactivity with these progesterone assays.

Prolactin is lowered by Tren (and androgens generally, particularly nonaromatizable androgens). It can be increased by estrogens (e.g., aromatic products of MENT, Test, Dbol, Deca, EQ).

Using anti-progesterone medications would be pretty stupid since progestagenic androgens are not progesterone (P4)... I linked an article above, you should probably read it, it addresses the root of the confusion underpinning all of these misconceptions.

How does Tren agonise the PR differently from Progesterone?

 

[Type-IIx]

How does Tren agonise the PR differently from Progesterone?

It's in the linked article man. If your understanding of cellular biology and endocrinology is that there are a few receptors that are turned on or off, and that's all there is to endocrine action and function, well... that's an "incomplete" understanding. Progestins in pharmacology derive efficacy from off-target action mostly. Besides, progestins are not merely PR agonists, generally progestagens and (synthetic) progestins agonize the PR, antagonize the AR, agonize the GR, and antagonize the MR.

It's if anything unfortunate that Tren has to agonize the PR to have its potency. It's in no way beneficial in men, it's a bug not a feature.

PR agonism in women maintains uterine contractility, serves reproductive functions in the establishment and maintenance of pregnancy (regulating menses, and in the pregnant uterus, controlling the development of endometrial receptivity preparing the endometrium for implantation). Activation of the PR regulates mammalian female sexual behavior (heat, behavioral estrus), and concurrent treatment with E2 (estradiol) treatment with E2 maximizes the probability that the female will display “lordosis” response, a primary reflexive component of female reproductive behavior, upon mounting by a con-specific male

PR agonism in men serves no clear biological function (we lack a uterus). There is no anabolic/anticatabolic effect modulated by the PR.

 

[Zeus45]

No... If Tren shows increased progesterone it's because of cross-reactivity (false elevation due to Tren being cross-reactive in the progesterone assay). Typically, nandrolone (Deca, NPP) and exemestane (Aromasin) have some cross-reactivity with these progesterone assays.

Prolactin is lowered by Tren (and androgens generally, particularly nonaromatizable androgens). It can be increased by estrogens (e.g., aromatic products of MENT, Test, Dbol, Deca, EQ).

Using anti-progesterone medications would be pretty stupid since progestagenic androgens are not progesterone (P4)... I linked an article above, you should probably read it, it addresses the root of the confusion underpinning all of these misconceptions.

so what you are saying is running tren with test is why people use caber. if you used tren without any wet compounds prolactin wouldn't spike.

 

[Type-IIx]

so what you are saying is running tren with test is why people use caber. if you used tren without any wet compounds prolactin wouldn't spike.

I think that the reason people run caber is they believe bullshit broscience factoids that suggest caber is necessary with Tren; then once they take it, they realize that it reduces the male refractory period (enhancing sexual performance), is dopaminergic, and they like how this feels, so they continue.

To reduce prolactin increases on Test + Tren (and you're correct, that Test's aromatic product, E2, can increase prolactin; and both Tren [as a progestagenic androgen] & prolactin increase sensitivity to estrogens), the rational choice is an AI.

But now the pendulum has swung in the entire opposite direction and everyone's petrified of AIs these days.

There's more irrationality in decisionmaking in androgen users than rationality, simply put.

 

[micro2000]

There was a testosterone in the 90's French brand can't remember the name , this testosterone had some progesterone in it people said that was the shit idk.

It was called Trophobolene by Theramex. It was nandrolone with hydroxyprogesterone and estradiol.

If I recall correctly, it got a folk legend status because someone claimed Serge Nubret was a fan of it.

 

[Deleted member 59947]

I wonder if anyone knows what taking actual progesterone would do?

If the progesterone activity of 19-Nors Tren, ment, Deca are part of why they’re so anabolic, would taking testosterone and bioidentical Progesterone have any bit of a similar effect ?

One thing idea on why this may be: Tren, Ment, Deca are strong ligands, and thus have high affinity for the AR which results In them also having moderate/high affinity for other receptors like PR, GR, MR etc… or is it actually the specific affinity that these drugs have for the PR that makes them more anabolic ?

I have never used any 19nor, but have used pure progesterone powder orally between 10mg and 100mg a day along high doses of test.

It completely castrated me sexually and didn't bring any anabolic effect.

The only positive was how glowy my skin and my hair were on it.

 

[Para_33]

I have never used any 19nor, but have used pure progesterone powder orally between 10mg and 100mg a day along high doses of test.

It completely castrated me sexually and didn't bring any anabolic effect.

The only positive was how glowy my skin and my hair were on it.

Ok interesting thanks for that input. What was your reason for adding in the progesterone ?

 

[Deleted member 59947]

Ok interesting thanks for that input. What was your reason for adding in the progesterone ?

Trying out Ray Peat principles.

 

[Para_33]

Trying out Ray Peat principles.

Ok, appreciate the feedback thanks. So you were just taking like 500mg test and transdermal progesterone or something like that ?

Curious about doses and what else you were using along side it.

I have only tried progesterone transdermal a handful of times, maybe the first 3 times I felt no affect with a single application or two days back to back application of 20mg transdermal. However the last time, I tried a single dose of 40mg transdermal, and did end up having somewhat of an off day at a relatively new job I’d started. Nothing I could really put my finger on, but I’m in sales for a brand that I really enjoy and had used myself almost exclusively before I began working for them, but I just remembered feeling like it took more effort to work and sell that day. Almost like I was just phoning it it. But there was no affect that was so noticeable that I could directly attribute it to the progesterone. It’s possible that I would have noticed more had I repeated the application the next day or for longer. Another possible factor was that I had just previously been on 500mg testosterone, but since the new job prevented me from going to the gym more than twice a week, I decided to just cruise on 120mg per week and had just dropped my dosage down maybe 10 days prior to this experiment.

Don’t get me wrong I fully believe you. I’m just curious because It just seems counterintuitive to me that bioidentical progesterone would have effects so different from some of the progestin 19-nor drugs. Especially when you consider that things like bioidentical testosterone produces effects very similar to the other anabolics that bind to the Androgen receptor. So my intuition tells me that progesterone binding to the progesterone receptor would produce a very similar effect to the unique traits of say trenbolone for example that also binds to the progesterone receptor.

 

[Deleted member 59947]

Ok, appreciate the feedback thanks. So you were just taking like 500mg test and transdermal progesterone or something like that ?

Curious about doses and what else you were using along side it.

I have only tried progesterone transdermal a handful of times, maybe the first 3 times I felt no affect with a single application or two days back to back application of 20mg transdermal. However the last time, I tried a single dose of 40mg transdermal, and did end up having somewhat of an off day at a relatively new job I’d started. Nothing I could really put my finger on, but I’m in sales for a brand that I really enjoy and had used myself almost exclusively before I began working for them, but I just remembered feeling like it took more effort to work and sell that day. Almost like I was just phoning it it. But there was no affect that was so noticeable that I could directly attribute it to the progesterone. It’s possible that I would have noticed more had I repeated the application the next day or for longer. Another possible factor was that I had just previously been on 500mg testosterone, but since the new job prevented me from going to the gym more than twice a week, I decided to just cruise on 120mg per week and had just dropped my dosage down maybe 10 days prior to this experiment.

Don’t get me wrong I fully believe you. I’m just curious because It just seems counterintuitive to me that bioidentical progesterone would have effects so different from some of the progestin 19-nor drugs. Especially when you consider that things like bioidentical testosterone produces effects very similar to the other anabolics that bind to the Androgen receptor. So my intuition tells me that progesterone binding to the progesterone receptor would produce a very similar effect to the unique traits of say trenbolone for example that also binds to the progesterone receptor.

People report feeling like sex manics on tren.
A single dose of progesterone fully killed my libido for a good 2 weeks.

So there must be more at play.