What should I choose as hairloss prevention?

[Proud Pangolin]

This question/my problem has multiple layers so im trying to keep it as short as possible.
Soon I will start my 4 month cycle (after that im going fully off/duing PCT) so I need a hairloss prevention for this time.
As fin takes it time to work and only protects against hairloss due to DHT (we know that many ASS that don’t convert to DHT can be very bad for your hair) its off the table. RU58841 is also off the table simply because a) there is no clinical evidence and no clinical saftyprofile and b) some people experience serious/dangerous sideeffects so doesn’t sound like a good option.

Therefore im basically left with two Options:
1.Pyrilutamide/KX-826
2.Fluridil/ Topilutamide

Lets get into the pros and cons
1.1. Pyrilutamide/KX-826:
Clinical evidence is controversial, in the last study there was no significant difference between the placebogroup and treatmentgroup however both groups experienced significant hairgrowth in that period (which is pretty weird). The alpha was also choosen very strict and I cant find any information about the size of the groups (but don’t want to dive to deep into statistcs).
As they used only 0,5% twice a day meaning 10mg per day one could try to double the dose to 10mg daily.

The main problem is: I cant get the original product from kentor so I can only choose some greymarket products or Chinese sources and as these Greymarket products surly use Chinese Pyrilutamide im left with one big problem:
How can I be even slightly sure im getting Pyrilutamide? Is there anything at all I could do to increase the possibilitys?
They could just sent me some white dust, wouldn’t be the 1001 case this happened.

2.Fluridil/ Topilutamide
Clinical evidence is also controversial/not a lot there. Its said to be rather week/significant weeker at the same dosage as similar substances.
I can get the original stuff but only at 2%. Even if I would double the dose (which woud be abut as expensive as using 2 times daily the 1% Pyrsolution) it still would be just 4% (or 80mg per day as in a vial with 2% concentration are 2ml).
Some people have claimed that you need high concentrations for it to work like 10% but then I am back at the same problem I had with Pyrl:

From where should I know if im getting what I paid for from the Chinese vendors?
Because its not even like we are talking about some known sellers, were we have feedback (like in the underground section) and also its not like something that is very common bought. If you buy some test you can just do some bloodwork. If you want to buy RU you can use one of the options from the underground with feedback and also RU is bought and therefore produced often, so in general your risk of getting something else will be much lower.
And testing this in a laboratory cost 350 bucks.

So whats your opinion about this? Any advise? Is there an alternative/in general something I haven’t considered?

 

[Avarice911]

I didn’t overthink my hair loss protocol. This isn’t- .25mg fin, minoxidil foam, ketocoanozole shampoo (1-2x per week), and I also opted to add in 50mg RU58841. My hair had gotten thicker and recovered a very little bit that I probably lost since being a teenager 20 years ago. My hairline is immaculate on 300mg test and 25-50mg anavar (I don’t run more than that)

 

[Ghoul]

There's no single silver bullet for the protection you want. Each of these proven elements lowers the amount of potential irreversible damage to your follicles.

You have a baseline level of DHT from 5AR conversion of Testosterone,

Despite adding exogenous DHT, lowering the amount of conversion with Fin or Dutasteride, will lower total DHT. providing some protection. Finasteride lowers DHT very quickly.

Oral minoxidil will improve blood flow to the follicles making them more resistant to the destruction of hair growth stem cells DHT causes.

Washing. 3+ times a week with Ketoconozole. 2% shampoo, leaving on for a solid 5 minutes, will lower the inflammation that's part of the process of destroying the stem cells.

The rest of the compounds you''re thinking of may or may not help.

 

[Proud Pangolin]

There's no single silver bullet for the protection you want. Each of these proven elements lowers the amount of potential irreversible damage to your follicles.

You have a baseline level of DHT from 5AR conversion of Testosterone,

Despite adding exogenous DHT, lowering the amount of conversion with Fin or Dutasteride, will lower total DHT. providing some protection. Finasteride lowers DHT very quickly.

Oral minoxidil will improve blood flow to the follicles making them more resistant to the destruction of hair growth stem cells DHT causes.

Washing. 3+ times a week with Ketoconozole. 2% shampoo, leaving on for a solid 5 minutes, will lower the inflammation that's part of the process of destroying the stem cells.

The rest of the compounds you''re thinking of may or may not help.

With fin i read though that it takes sometime months to do its effect and will lead to shedding at ghe beginning.

With minox i also read i will shedd at the beginning. Does this makes sense considering i want to stay on.this stuff only for like 4 months?

 

[Proud Pangolin]

There's no single silver bullet for the protection you want. Each of these proven elements lowers the amount of potential irreversible damage to your follicles.

You have a baseline level of DHT from 5AR conversion of Testosterone,

Despite adding exogenous DHT, lowering the amount of conversion with Fin or Dutasteride, will lower total DHT. providing some protection. Finasteride lowers DHT very quickly.

Oral minoxidil will improve blood flow to the follicles making them more resistant to the destruction of hair growth stem cells DHT causes.

Washing. 3+ times a week with Ketoconozole. 2% shampoo, leaving on for a solid 5 minutes, will lower the inflammation that's part of the process of destroying the stem cells.

The rest of the compounds you''re thinking of may or may not help.

Also whats with postfinastrtide syndrome? Even though many claim this dont exist

https://www.fertstert.org/article/S0015-0282(19)32599-3/fulltext

There is clinical data about this. While most sideffects during the treatment with fin are based on the low DHT levels the 5alpah-DHT enzym plays a complicated role in errectiom and also in brainactivitys.

So surpressing it may lead to a permamnet surpression or change in brainstructure but i would need to read more into this, the point is:

Is this risk a good idea considering im on the ASS just for the 4months (if i would bnc this woukd be something totally different)

Thats why im unsure with fin

 

[Ghoul]

With fin i read though that it takes sometime months to do its effect and will lead to shedding at ghe beginning.

With minox i also read i will shedd at the beginning. Does this makes sense considering i want to stay on.this stuff only for like 4 months?

You're correct both compounds induce shedding at the beginning, however this is not hair loss, it's just a "reset" of the hair growth cycle of grow-rest-drop-grow-etc. It's not "loss", you're just dropping and restarting growth in many follicles earlier than you would otherwise.

Hair loss is actually the gradual thinning of the hair shaft as the hair "factory" loses stem cells, until the shaft is so thin the hair can no longer be seen.

These compounds do two things. They protect hair follicles from DHT destruction, and they can "rejuvenate" stem cells which aren't destroyed yet, but are "stunned" into inactivity. Taking off the pressure of DHT attacks, and improving nutrients and oxygen causes damaged stem cells to become active again, and makes undamaged stem cells more active, resulting in thicker shafts.

The "months for results" issue is referring to the length of time it takes for those who've already seen loss to notice visible improvements to thinning hair from "rejuvenated" follicles.

However the protection from further destruction begins almost immediately, which is the effect you're looking for, You just want to shield the stem cells from damage while you're on cycle, you aren't looking to regain hair from prior loss, which takes a long time to see (because hair grows so slowly), and requires continuous use of the compounds, or the "rejuvenated" follicles will return to their previous inactive/damaged state,

 

[eferhhth]

With fin i read though that it takes sometime months to do its effect and will lead to shedding at ghe beginning.

With minox i also read i will shedd at the beginning. Does this makes sense considering i want to stay on.this stuff only for like 4 months?

it depends. look at your dad and grandads hair. if they have decent hair in their 40s and 50s, you can afford to do 4 months without hair protection, as it might shed when you use them, more than the AAS will shed them.

If youre afraid of the shedding, look into these natural and mild solutions, like biotin, multivitamins, saw palmetto, rosemary oil.

if youre gonna cycle back after 4 months, just get on oral fin + oral min already. no point to get on later, best to get done with the shedding now. for oral min, just use the liquid topical minoxidil 5 percent, and carefully take out 0.05mL(be very exact), i think this is around 2.5mg minoxidil oral equivalent. with this much minoxidil, just syringe it out into a shot glass of water and drink it.

oral min + fin is much better than topical, some people dont respond well to topicals because it isnt absorbed, oral is 100 peecent absorbed. BE VERY CAREFUL with oral min, overdosing it can give very bad side effects.

you might as well even start dermarollling at this stage around your hairline to make sure that area receives the most blood flow to it.

tldr : oral fin, oral min

 

[eferhhth]

if youre gonna stay on long term, please get on oral fin , this is the most important. I, like an idiot took test + sdrol. as I didnt get any noticeable hair recession in the first months or so, just shedding from other areas, I thought it was just that im thinning and not receding so I didnt take meds as I didnt bother.

My dad and grandad have great hair and I overestimated this.

Now i regret not taking fin, thinking I wouldnt experience hair loss from 250mg test for 2 years straight.

Sdrol is a dht yes, but it is made siginificantly less androgenic, almost none. Meanwhile the test i took, increased the amount of DHT thru 5areductase(which is the most potent and biological version) by almost like 4-5x. I now have the hair I would have had at around 30. I had such a great hairline before and i feel like crying looking at myself. Its not bad, like noticeable but I can no longer do the same hairstyles I used to do before.

JUST TAKE FIN

 

[explodingHeart]

You're correct both compounds induce shedding at the beginning, however this is not hair loss, it's just a "reset" of the hair growth cycle of grow-rest-drop-grow-etc. It's not "loss", you're just dropping and restarting growth in many follicles earlier than you would otherwise.

Hair loss is actually the gradual thinning of the hair shaft as the hair "factory" loses stem cells, until the shaft is so thin the hair can no longer be seen.

These compounds do two things. They protect hair follicles from DHT destruction, and they can "rejuvenate" stem cells which aren't destroyed yet, but are "stunned" into inactivity. Taking off the pressure of DHT attacks, and improving nutrients and oxygen causes damaged stem cells to become active again, and makes undamaged stem cells more active, resulting in thicker shafts.

The "months for results" issue is referring to the length of time it takes for those who've already seen loss to notice visible improvements to thinning hair from "rejuvenated" follicles.

However the protection from further destruction begins almost immediately, which is the effect you're looking for, You just want to shield the stem cells from damage while you're on cycle, you aren't looking to regain hair from prior loss, which takes a long time to see (because hair grows so slowly), and requires continuous use of the compounds, or the "rejuvenated" follicles will return to their previous inactive/damaged state,

View attachment 322334

I've done well with duta + 2.5mg minox per day.

Is it worth risking side effects for more gains @ 5mg minox per day?

Since I'm asking stupid questions, is there anything proven to reverse greys?

 

[Proud Pangolin]

it depends. look at your dad and grandads hair. if they have decent hair in their 40s and 50s, you can afford to do 4 months without hair protection, as it might shed when you use them, more than the AAS will shed them.

If youre afraid of the shedding, look into these natural and mild solutions, like biotin, multivitamins, saw palmetto, rosemary oil.

if youre gonna cycle back after 4 months, just get on oral fin + oral min already. no point to get on later, best to get done with the shedding now. for oral min, just use the liquid topical minoxidil 5 percent, and carefully take out 0.05mL(be very exact), i think this is around 2.5mg minoxidil oral equivalent. with this much minoxidil, just syringe it out into a shot glass of water and drink it.

oral min + fin is much better than topical, some people dont respond well to topicals because it isnt absorbed, oral is 100 peecent absorbed. BE VERY CAREFUL with oral min, overdosing it can give very bad side effects.

you might as well even start dermarollling at this stage around your hairline to make sure that area receives the most blood flow to it.

tldr : oral fin, oral min

Im going to do PCT after the 4 months and considering the time till the compound left my system (min 2weeks) + 8weeks PCT + time off (16 weeks) im left with one cycle per year.

(Trying to minimize the risk of damaging my natural test production)

However my cycle will be quite heavy: planning to run 500mg test and 500mg DHB (at the end of my last cycle i was even at 600mg test and 600mg DHB eventhough I started at 500mg test and 400mg DHB)

 

[Proud Pangolin]

if youre gonna stay on long term, please get on oral fin , this is the most important. I, like an idiot took test + sdrol. as I didnt get any noticeable hair recession in the first months or so, just shedding from other areas, I thought it was just that im thinning and not receding so I didnt take meds as I didnt bother.

My dad and grandad have great hair and I overestimated this.

Now i regret not taking fin, thinking I wouldnt experience hair loss from 250mg test for 2 years straight.

Sdrol is a dht yes, but it is made siginificantly less androgenic, almost none. Meanwhile the test i took, increased the amount of DHT thru 5areductase(which is the most potent and biological version) by almost like 4-5x. I now have the hair I would have had at around 30. I had such a great hairline before and i feel like crying looking at myself. Its not bad, like noticeable but I can no longer do the same hairstyles I used to do before.

JUST TAKE FIN

My only problem with fin taht remains ist postfinsyndrome.
I have to read into this more though but it seems like inhibiting the enzym can have long lasting effects. Im not sure though if these changes are
a) purly due to the lower dht level which in that case wouldnt be sich a concern as mine is going to be eleveted anyways
b) due to fin having other effects in the body/brain
c) a permanent reduction of the enzym/damaging the enzym production

 

[Ghoul]

I've done well with duta + 2.5mg minox per day.

Is it worth risking side effects for more gains @ 5mg minox per day?

Since I'm asking stupid questions, is there anything proven to reverse greys?

TLDR: Yes, 5mg, but no further, provides additional hair benefits with very low risk of any serious or lasting sides.

Like most BP meds, there's an initial period where the vessels targeted by the med can over dilate, leading to possible side effects, which typically resolve within a few weeks to a month, because the body rebalances by making specific vessels tighten back down.

Minox 5mg is a "child" dose, well below the usual dose for adult BP treatment, but it is possible for the most common side, water retention/swelling to occur. If this even happens (unlikely), it should clear up quickly.

Studies show 5mg does provide significant hair growth benefits over 2.5mg. I consulted with a top hair replacement surgeon and he was using 5mg/day.

Beyond this dose there don't seem to be any additional benefits, Once a day is fine, though if sides are troublesome, dividing into 2x a day can lessen them,

The only other issue is body hair growth accelerates, but it's a lot easier to shave your back once in a while than it is to grow more hair on your head via some other method.

Regular use of MT-II has reverted greys to black. Not brown, not blond, not any other color, black.

It seems to bring melanocytes in hair follicles back to life, but like most resurrected zombies, they come back not necessarily looking the same as before. I'm dark brown so it's fine for me. One you stop, they'll revert to grey within 6 months or so.

 

[glpfun]

I like to rub a lucky coin on my head sometimes I also take oral minoxidil but I’m pretty sure it’s the lucky coin doing the heavy lifting

 

[Photon]

Therefore im basically left with two Options:
1.Pyrilutamide/KX-826
2.Fluridil/ Topilutamide

Lets get into the pros and cons
1.1. Pyrilutamide/KX-826:
Clinical evidence is controversial, in the last study there was no significant difference between the placebogroup and treatmentgroup however both groups experienced significant hairgrowth in that period (which is pretty weird). The alpha was also choosen very strict and I cant find any information about the size of the groups (but don’t want to dive to deep into statistcs).
As they used only 0,5% twice a day meaning 10mg per day one could try to double the dose to 10mg daily.

The main problem is: I cant get the original product from kentor so I can only choose some greymarket products or Chinese sources and as these Greymarket products surly use Chinese Pyrilutamide im left with one big problem:
How can I be even slightly sure im getting Pyrilutamide? Is there anything at all I could do to increase the possibilitys?
They could just sent me some white dust, wouldn’t be the 1001 case this happened.

You can get raws and make your own solution. I do not provide information on sources so you need to do your own research.

They started off with a very low conservative dose at 0.5%, which allowed them to prove safety, which then allowed them to sell the product immediately as a cosmetic ingredient. They now sell it directly to consumers, in certain markets (EU/US/China) at ~0.9%(?) instead of 0.5%. It should not be hard to import or find. Trials are now ongoing for higher doses.

What you put on your head, will likely go systematic. Even at 0.25% fin once daily on scalp enters the bloodstream and lowers serum DHT levels. There are other compounds you can try, but just take note and be willing to accept the risk of what happens when it enters the body (E.g RU, CB-03, Fin, Minox, etc). if you're not willing to consume it, you might not want to put it on your head.

 

[explodingHeart]

TLDR: Yes, 5mg, but no further, provides additional hair benefits with very low risk of any serious or lasting sides.

Like most BP meds, there's an initial period where the vessels targeted by the med can over dilate, leading to possible side effects, which typically resolve within a few weeks to a month, because the body rebalances by making specific vessels tighten back down.

Minox 5mg is a "child" dose, well below the usual dose for adult BP treatment, but it is possible for the most common side, water retention/swelling to occur. If this even happens (unlikely), it should clear up quickly.

Studies show 5mg does provide significant hair growth benefits over 2.5mg. I consulted with a top hair replacement surgeon and he was using 5mg/day.

Beyond this dose there don't seem to be any additional benefits, Once a day is fine, though if sides are troublesome, dividing into 2x a day can lessen them,

The only other issue is body hair growth accelerates, but it's a lot easier to shave your back once in a while than it is to grow more hair on your head via some other method.

Regular use of MT-II has reverted greys to black. Not brown, not blond, not any other color, black.

It seems to bring melanocytes in hair follicles back to life, but like most resurrected zombies, they come back not necessarily looking the same as before. I'm dark brown so it's fine for me. One you stop, they'll revert to grey within 6 months or so.

Assuming I do get some grey reversal, any guesses as to how much MT2 I need to keep using to keep the "gains"?

 

[Ghoul]

My only problem with fin taht remains ist postfinsyndrome.
I have to read into this more though but it seems like inhibiting the enzym can have long lasting effects. Im not sure though if these changes are
a) purly due to the lower dht level which in that case wouldnt be sich a concern as mine is going to be eleveted anyways
b) due to fin having other effects in the body/brain
c) a permanent reduction of the enzym/damaging the enzym production

It's psychosomatic. Stop fin, 14 days later DHT returns to baseline and symptoms are gone.

The problem is you can "think" yourself into psychogenic erectile dysfunction and depression. PFS has been tested in the courts and by countless studies, Its just that when your dick stops working, and stoping the med doesn't fix the problem after a day, or a week, without understanding the impact of crashing DHT (just like AIs can crash E2), men panic and psychologically cripple themselves. I speak from first hand experience.

That said, stay away from dutasteride if this is a concern, since it takes 6 weeks to recover from a dutasteride DHT crash,

You can avoid this by starting with a .25mg microdose every other day for a week, if all ok, .25mg daily. If you still feel nothing, you can increase to .50mg daily, You'll still get 60-90% of the same protection 1mg offers.

Most men use 1mg or 5mg daily without issue. But by slowly titrating up you can avoid crashing your DHT.

 

[Ghoul]

Assuming I do get some grey reversal, any guesses as to how much MT2 I need to keep using to keep the "gains"?

.75mg 2x a week is enough to maintain for me after a couple of weeks of a loading dose.

 

[eferhhth]

The problem is you can "think" yourself into psychogenic erectile dysfunction and depression.

This happened to me. Although not from fin, but from thinking I had low test. I was taking 250mg testC a week, and it was 9 days since last injection and I couldnt ejaculate/maintain a boner since I kept rhinking my test is 0. I was thinking testC only remains in the system for a week and from then it falls to 0 quickly. A guy can literally inject 250mg testC and reap TRT benefit for up to 3-4 weeks no problem and here I was giving myself psychological ED after 9 days. crazy shit.

 

[UberLOL]

I just ordered KX-826 from china. Will let you know how it goes. Using RU and minoxidil atm.

 

[Proud Pangolin]

You can get raws and make your own solution. I do not provide information on sources so you need to do your own research.

They started off with a very low conservative dose at 0.5%, which allowed them to prove safety, which then allowed them to sell the product immediately as a cosmetic ingredient. They now sell it directly to consumers, in certain markets (EU/US/China) at ~0.9%(?) instead of 0.5%. It should not be hard to import or find. Trials are now ongoing for higher doses.

What you put on your head, will likely go systematic. Even at 0.25% fin once daily on scalp enters the bloodstream and lowers serum DHT levels. There are other compounds you can try, but just take note and be willing to accept the risk of what happens when it enters the body (E.g RU, CB-03, Fin, Minox, etc). if you're not willing to consume it, you might not want to put it on your head.

Well i meant raw powder when i was talking about the chinese sources. But the problem none of the more established vendors here on the underground offers it.

So the problem is: how could i even be slightly sure im getting what i ordered? Of course this risk is always there with black market but while most of the vendors on thw underground section offer RU as its widly used, Pyr and Fluridil is rather rare and as i said no eatablsihed vendor.

And sadly i cant find any seller in the EU. An import could be an option, i have to see if tze cost will be tolerable.

And about everything going systematic: at least witg Fluridil this isnt a concern as its hydrohobic