What's up with Islam?

Grizzly said:
Cyniq- Your theory about Pangea being the method by which "god scattered the peoples of the world" doesn't hold water. The super continent separated hundreds of thousands, if not hundreds of millions, of years before humans even existed; particularly according to the Bible.

Weatherlite- I can buy your idea of a god. When I was a young'n' I tinkered with the Pagan religions. I wore a hammer of thor for several years. In fact, my password is still related to a pagan god.

To answer your recently posed question, I guess you'd call me agnostic. Though I don't know for certain whether there is or isn't a god, what I can say is that the Judeo-Christian religions are total falsehoods. They are wrong, wrong, wrong and THEIR god most certainly, 100%, absotively does not exist. Of course, that's really pretty hard to prove, so just call it a logical conclusion.

You want some chaotic mass of energy to be called god? Ok, I can buy that. An OOOG? Nope, no siree, that's bullshit.

I certainly don't think that my little Pangea theory is defensible. That's why I wasn't too dogmatic about it. But, if there is, in fact, an all powerful being. I'm sure that it's within his power to move continents. And there is really no way to date the division, so I don't see how anyone could speak authoritatively on that anyway.

If you can prove that the Judeo-Christian bible is false. Then I suppose I will instantly become a Deist. Evolution is just to far-fetched. But virtually everything that we consider civilized is bible-based. You can try to deny it if you want. But it's one of the oldest documents that we have. And it's affected the world in a way that nothing else has even come close to. That's certainly interesting, if nothing else.
 
And I think that you and Weatherlite have played way too much D&D.

You should love this... :D

http://www.darkonthemovie.com/darkon_video.html
 
Of course you can date the separation. To withing a few tens of thousands of years, anyway. It's called Geology. That's what geologists get payed big bucks and pull all those hot bitches for doing. Errrr, ok, they do it for their own satisfaction, but that's still enough. ;)

And don't call me a D&D nut! For one, I played ADVANCED Dungeons and Dragons. There's a difference. But, more to the point, I was a White Wolf gamer. Storyteller games are so much better than board-based, roll 'em up AD&D games. :p
 
And, again, arguing that god one day decided to move some continents throws a whole big wrench into science as a whole. We may as well have skipped the Age of Enlightenment because at any time god might strike you down with a lightning bolt, give you a disease, levitate someone across water, split some seas, turn your heathen ass into a pillar of salt or maybe even let the little boy across the street blow your house down with his trumpet just because that's how he feels today; natural laws be damned!
 
Grizzly said:
And, again, arguing that god one day decided to move some continents throws a whole big wrench into science as a whole. We may as well have skipped the Age of Enlightenment because at any time god might strike you down with a lightning bolt, give you a disease, levitate someone across water, split some seas, turn your heathen ass into a pillar of salt or maybe even let the little boy across the street blow your house down with his trumpet just because that's how he feels today; natural laws be damned!

We've talked about this before. I don't think that God can work contrary to the natural laws that he created. There is a natural means by which the continents have shifted. We're only discussing when and by what method the process was initiated. It's really not that far-fetched. You're really quite closed-minded for someone who gets off on fantasy rollplaying. :rolleyes:
 
No, I'm just right which leaves no reason to "open my mind", especially since that's always a euphemism for "changing your mind because someone else says so".

"I don't think that God can work contrary to the natural laws that he created. There is a natural means by which the continents have shifted. We're only discussing when and by what method the process was initiated. It's really not that far-fetched."

There's your proof. Now you're a deist. Not only does the existence of evil negate and OOOG, but now your OOOG is so un-OOOGly that he doesn't even have the power to act contrary to natural laws. What a pussy. So much for those all-powerful magical powers. :rolleyes:
 
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Grizzly said:
No, I'm just right which leaves no reason to "open my mind", especially since that's always a euphemism for "changing your mind because someone else says so".

"I don't think that God can work contrary to the natural laws that he created. There is a natural means by which the continents have shifted. We're only discussing when and by what method the process was initiated. It's really not that far-fetched."

There's your proof. Now you're a deist. Not only does the existence of evil negate and OOOG, but now your OOOG is so un-OOOGly that he doesn't even have the power to act contrary to natural laws. What a pussy. So much for those all-powerful magical powers. :rolleyes:

LMAO. Okay. As a brand new Deist. What do I believe?

The existence of evil doesn't negate the existence of God. Just because God is all powerfull and good. Doesn't mean that evil can't exist. It does however, mean that God can eliminate evil at will. If you would like to know why he doesn't. I can explain that too. But it will take a while. Oh. And it doesn't have anything to do with prayer in schools. I'm not Tammy Faye. :D
 
Ah, but you see, young grasshopper, the fact that he doesn't exert his power which is, supposedly, limitless to excise the evil in the world shows that he is not ALL good. He might be good, but not ALL good because if he was the evil would be unbearable and he would use his powers to rid the world of evil....unless he's not really powerful enough to do so and he just pretends that he doesn't want to. ;)

But go ahead and splain it, Lucy.
 
Grizzly said:
Storyteller games are so much better than board-based, roll 'em up AD&D games. :p

Aha!, I knew you were a geek!. AD&D is for geek kids who have no friends, ehm, thank God I was never one of them.

Now let me go back to Baldur's Gate.
 
Grizzly said:
Ah, but you see, young grasshopper, the fact that he doesn't exert his power which is, supposedly, limitless to excise the evil in the world shows that he is not ALL good. He might be good, but not ALL good because if he was the evil would be unbearable and he would use his powers to rid the world of evil....unless he's not really powerful enough to do so and he just pretends that he doesn't want to. ;)

But go ahead and splain it, Lucy.

That's like saying a little boy is gay because he puts on his mothers shoes. You can't transfer adult concepts of sexuality to children and you can't really transfer your ideology to God. It is because God is good and honorable and just that evil exists in the world. According to scripture, his authority to rule was questioned in the garden of eden. He could have wiped the slate clean and started over. But, he obviously felt that it was necessary to address the rebellion. It actually shows affection for his creation that he wants to give them the opportunity to prove their loyalty, so to speak. Within the next few thousand years he corrects the problem, wipes out the bad guys, and proves his right to be worshipped by mankind. Seems like a long time to us I guess. But from his POV. He's wrapping this big mess up within a couple of days.
 
Grizzly said:
Can a perfect being create an imperfect creation and still be perfect?

Yes. But we didn't start out imperfect.

The answer to your next question is free will.

Deja vu all over again. ;)
 
Back to the thread topic

The Terrorists' Motivation: Islam
Thursday, July 21, 2005
By: Edwin A. Locke and Alex Epstein

Their attempt to practice religion consistently explains the terrorists' actions.

The continued attacks by Islamic terrorists against the West--most recently, the horrific suicide bombings in London--have led many to ask, what is the motivation of the terrorists? Commentators are eager to offer a bevy of pseudo-explanations--poverty, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, etc.--while ignoring the motivation the terrorists themselves openly proclaim: Islam.

The near silence about the true role of Islam in motivating Islamic terrorists has two main causes: multiculturalism and religion. Multiculturalism asserts that all cultures are equal and therefore none may criticize another; intellectuals and politicians are therefore reluctant to declare the obvious superiority of Western culture to Islamic culture. And the strong commitment to religion of many Americans, especially conservatives, makes them reluctant to indict a religion as the cause of a massive evil. But if we are to identify the fundamental cause of the terrorists' actions, we must understand at least two fundamental premises of the religion they kill for.

First, Islam, like all religions, rejects reason as a means of gaining knowledge and guiding action; it holds that all important truths are grasped by faith in supernatural beings and sacred texts. The Koran explicitly states that knowledge comes from revelation, not thinking. (Christianity in pure form entails a similar rejection of reason, but it has been heavily diluted and secularized since the Renaissance.) Islam advocates the subordination of every sphere of life to religious dogma, including the legal system, politics, economics, and family life; the word "Islam" means literally: submission. The individual is not supposed to think independently but to selflessly subordinate himself to the dictates of his religion and its theocratic representatives. We have seen this before in the West--it was called the Dark Ages.

Second, as with any religion that seeks converts, a derivative tenet of Islam is that it should be imposed by force (you cannot convince someone of the non-rational). The Koran is replete with calls to take up arms in its name: "fight and slay the Pagans wherever you find them . . . those who reject our signs we shall soon cast into the fire . . . those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them; boiling fluid will be poured down on their heads . . . as to the deviators, they are the fuel of hell."

These ideas easily lead to fanaticism and terrorism. In fact, what is often referred to as the "fanaticism" of many Muslims is explicitly endorsed by their religion. Consider the following characteristics of religious fanatics. The fanatic demands unquestioning obedience to religious dogma--so does Islam. The fanatic cannot be reasoned with, because he rejects reason--so does Islam. The fanatic eagerly embraces any call to impose his dogma by force on those who will not adopt it voluntarily--so does Islam.

The terrorists are not "un-Islamic" bandits who have "hijacked a great religion"; they are consistent and serious followers of their religion.

It is true that many Muslims who live in the West (like most Christians) reject religious fanaticism and are law-abiding and even loyal citizens, but this is because they have accepted some Western values, including respect for reason, a belief in individual rights, and the need for a separation between church and state. It is only to the extent that they depart from their religion--and from a society that imposes it--that they achieve prosperity, freedom, and peace.

In the last year, there has been more and more of a call for a "War of Ideas"--an intellectual campaign to win the "hearts and minds" of the Arab world that will discourage and discredit Islamic terrorism. Unfortunately, the centerpiece of this campaign so far has been to appeal to Muslims with claims that Islam is perfectly consistent with Western ideals, and inconsistent with terrorism. America has groveled to so-called "moderate" Muslim leaders to strongly repudiate terrorism, with little success. (Those leaders have focused little energy on damning Islamic fanaticism, and much on the alleged sins of the US government.) Such a campaign cannot work, since insofar as these "moderates" accept Islam, they cannot convincingly oppose violence in its name. A true "War of Ideas" would be one in which we proclaim loudly and with moral certainty the secular values we stand for: reason, rights, freedom, material prosperity, and personal happiness on this earth.
 
Well, since we seem to be kinda slowing down I'll throw in some extra tidbits and ideas for you guys to chew on for awhile.

First, what is the definition of terrorism? (just want to get your opinion on this one)

Before 9/11, which terrorist group was the most active in the US? (or against US assets)

How many terrorist actions occurred within the borders of the US since 1980? (ballpark)

What is the difference between a suicide bomber and a homicide bomber?

What is the difference between a terrorist and an insurgent?

What is the difference between terrorists/insurgents/freedom fighters (what ever the fuck you want to call them) in Iraq and the rebel fighters in the US Revolutionary War?

Ok, I think that's enough for now. I'll wait til I see some posts to post the answers to the questions which have definite answers and aren't just opinion based.
 
Oh yeah.....what is the legal limit on an explosive device (federal) to make it a WMD? In other words, if I had an explosive device, how much explosives would it have to contain to be a WMD...at the minimum?
 
Hmmm, no one? Anyone? Nada?

Well, I'll post the answers for now but I'd still like to hear (read) your opinions and definitions.
 
Weatherlite said:
Before 9/11, which terrorist group was the most active in the US? (or against US assets)

The answer here varies according to which statistics you read. Some associate group A with group B so they then credit the action to group B even though it was a member of group A.

Anyway, depending on how you look at things (and what you consider to be a terrorist action) it was either PETA (People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals) or ELF (Earth Liberation Front). If you consider the attacks on individuals wearing fur as terrorist acts then it was PETA. If you only consider violent acts then it was ELF.

Even just the ELF's actions outweigh all of the other foreign terrorist groups'.

Weatherlite said:
How many terrorist actions occurred within the borders of the US since 1980? (ballpark)
Total is around 2500!!!! You'd be surprised at how many don't get reported as terrorist actions only to be reviewed much later after the fact and get re-classified as terrorist actions.

What's even more crazy are all of the actions which COULD be terrorist-like but are not reported as such because they consider it to be a pain to do that extra work.

Weatherlite said:
what is the legal limit on an explosive device (federal) to make it a WMD?

The correct answer is 4 ounces!!!!!! Yep, a pipe bomb with four ounces of smokeless powder (or 4 ounces of matchstick heads for that matter!) used in a terrorist fashion is enough to get you on WMD charges!
 
All religions are a means inwhich to control people, and to separate them. I can't believe people can read books and think such things? Really, ask yourselves one question. Would you even know God exsists if no one told you?
 
goldstone_77 said:
All religions are a means inwhich to control people, and to separate them. I can't believe people can read books and think such things? Really, ask yourselves one question. Would you even know God exsists if no one told you?

Someone once told me that there are no stupid questions. They were apparently wrong. That's a stupid question.
 
Sorry to affend you CyniQ, the almighty himself must have blessed you with divine enlightenment! And which religion did the almighty tell you, at birth noneless, was the right one?

CyniQ said:
Someone once told me that there are no stupid questions. They were apparently wrong. That's a stupid question.
 
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