What is up with this dumbass study and what are the actual truths to it?

[ChevChelios]

I’m sure everyone here has encountered those idiots who use the ‘couch potato’ study (600mg test given to people who lift people who don’t n then placebo n natural lifters, it’s from the New England medical school I think n all the dumbasses on various forums n yt seem to think very highly of it, using it as proof that steroids will build muscle even if you don’t do shit.

So first of all I want to make clear that I don’t believe the study was done well n they failed to account for water retention etc… but I am also curious from a scientific perspective how much this could actually hold any validity as we all know someone who takes mad amts of stuff n doesn’t even look that good but I also know people on mini TRT doses who don’t lift n look pretty jacked so it goes both ways, anyone here with experience during a layoff (for example or if one was sick/injured but kept on blasting n eating right) or any scientific background that could elucidate how bs this is n what truths there could be to it? Nothing beats hard work in this game but I am sure that AAS do something regardless of stimulation, the question is what n how much do they actually do?

Sorry for even blaspheming on this board mentioning this study (I hate what it represents to all em natty or not goofies with a passion) but I’m both curious and want to prove a couple mfkas wrong

 

[pigeonhed]

Could you possibly share the name of the study or where it might be located?

 

[asaly]

I’m sure everyone here has encountered those idiots who use the ‘couch potato’ study (600mg test given to people who lift people who don’t n then placebo n natural lifters, it’s from the New England medical school I think n all the dumbasses on various forums n yt seem to think very highly of it, using it as proof that steroids will build muscle even if you don’t do shit.

So first of all I want to make clear that I don’t believe the study was done well n they failed to account for water retention etc… but I am also curious from a scientific perspective how much this could actually hold any validity as we all know someone who takes mad amts of stuff n doesn’t even look that good but I also know people on mini TRT doses who don’t lift n look pretty jacked so it goes both ways, anyone here with experience during a layoff (for example or if one was sick/injured but kept on blasting n eating right) or any scientific background that could elucidate how bs this is n what truths there could be to it? Nothing beats hard work in this game but I am sure that AAS do something regardless of stimulation, the question is what n how much do they actually do?

Sorry for even blaspheming on this board mentioning this study (I hate what it represents to all em natty or not goofies with a passion) but I’m both curious and want to prove a couple mfkas wrong

I also thought that this study was bad, but recently Peter Bond devoted a lot of space to this in his book and I felt that he agreed that testosterone actually builds a lot of muscle in a people who doesentt train

 

[pigeonhed]

The study

basically... I would sum it up the study investigated the effects of testosterone on muscle mass and protein synthesis without exercise. Participants received testosterone, resulting in a 20% increase in muscle mass and a 27% increase in muscle protein synthesis. The study suggests testosterone can enhance muscle growth by promoting protein synthesis.

It in no way suggest significant muscle gain without exercise. However yes on a scientific level, protein synthesis will improve even without effort.

 

[buzzingonaas]

These guys were untrained first off, so of course they’d receive a massive boost being that they’ve never stepped inside a gym (doesn’t mean they got jacked, just bigger than tiny). And secondly, they’re using creatinine levels to estimate muscle gain but how accurate could that really be? My creatinine was 1.24 when I was 160lb and 1 1/2 years later after about 4 cycles and 55lb gained, my creatinine is a 1? Maybe I am completely misinterpreting the study and the way they analyzed muscle gain though.

 

[unkwnlifter]

Imo, as someone who was a over weight trucker, inactive older late 30s, low test at the time, higher E levels, going on TRT and dialing in E levels, and switching to a job that was more active, just walking some climbing etc...Test definitely changed my body composition drastically, or should say sped it up. Lost 30-35 lbs, and dropped to 18% bf. and that's with out diet! still eating what I want. but just making smarter decisions and eating more home cooked meals.

I also was never fat to start with lol just long haul trucking and covid led to poor choices...now I probably have better muscle memory than a couch potato tho.

So yes if you raised test, free test, and lower E levels in fat or non active people who still do basic day of activity, I can see muscle being built and fat loss.

Yes diet training hard work will boost the effectiveness drastically but I think Test alone does do something.

 

[gburdell]

https://www.nejm.org/doi/10.1056/NEJM199607043350101?url_ver=Z39.88-2003&rfr_id=ori:rid:crossref.org&rfr_dat=cr_pub%20%200www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[gburdell]

Now I just need a test vape pen.

 

[ChevChelios]

Now I just need a test vape pen.

See I was goin for the intranasal one but smoking your test now that’s sumn new ahah

 

[ChevChelios]

I also thought that this study was bad, but recently Peter Bond devoted a lot of space to this in his book and I felt that he agreed that testosterone actually builds a lot of muscle in a people who doesentt train

Hmmm I don’t know who that is but I’m curious as to what he found since the study in question seems to not account for water retention and generally doesn’t do stuff right (some of the participants were previously trained while some weren’t n they had a pretty small sample size n shitty measuring techniques).

I would imagine that high doses of test would build muscle regardless of exercise to a certain degree but I’m trying to understand how much that would actually be if the person only did basic shit n didn’t lift weights, the diet in the study was alright but even that wasn’t optimal so I dunno as much as I hate the study it does raise some interesting questions that should make for a follow up one conducted a lot more properly

 

[ChevChelios]

These guys were untrained first off, so of course they’d receive a massive boost being that they’ve never stepped inside a gym (doesn’t mean they got jacked, just bigger than tiny). And secondly, they’re using creatinine levels to estimate muscle gain but how accurate could that really be? My creatinine was 1.24 when I was 160lb and 1 1/2 years later after about 4 cycles and 55lb gained, my creatinine is a 1? Maybe I am completely misinterpreting the study and the way they analyzed muscle gain though.

Tbh it’s really vague n in one place they say untrained but in another it says they had previous experience so I dunno tf to think but yeah the way they measured it was not at all the right way n imo they could easily have done it so much better

 

[buzzingonaas]

Tbh it’s really vague n in one place they say untrained but in another it says they had previous experience so I dunno tf to think but yeah the way they measured it was not at all the right way n imo they could easily have done it so much better

yeah imagine if the testosterone group was previously trained and lost all their gains then the natural training group was fully untrained.. would throw the whole thing off

 

[ChevChelios]

Imo, as someone who was a over weight trucker, inactive older late 30s, low test at the time, higher E levels, going on TRT and dialing in E levels, and switching to a job that was more active, just walking some climbing etc...Test definitely changed my body composition drastically, or should say sped it up. Lost 30-35 lbs, and dropped to 18% bf. and that's with out diet! still eating what I want. but just making smarter decisions and eating more home cooked meals.

I also was never fat to start with lol just long haul trucking and covid led to poor choices...now I probably have better muscle memory than a couch potato tho.

So yes if you raised test, free test, and lower E levels in fat or non active people who still do basic day of activity, I can see muscle being built and fat loss.

Yes diet training hard work will boost the effectiveness drastically but I think Test alone does do something.

Yeah I know lots of people with similar experiences to yours which makes me think it definitely does make some sort of difference in n of itself, the question though as usually it’s regarding people who lost weight and kept muscle (I guess it depends I do know some including myself who gained muscle without doing much but I was already lifting so it’s not a good example as I just gained extra during a period of relatively chill activity but others did also gain a good amount n they didn’t do shit as far as ik) so the question is how much actually does it do by itself n how much of that like everything else is mostly dictated by genetics/response to AAS hmmm I still think this study is idiotically flawed but it does ask a question which would be interesting to get an actual real solid answer but I guess imma have to conduct that study on random mfkas myself cos I doubt they will replicate it any time soon (maybe if I lobby the TRT companies they would just to advertise how good it is, which it really is be it mentally or physically, but yeah I’m way too curious about this type of stuff so will have to find some homies who are down to IM some androgens for the sake of science then not do shit, or if not if I have to take a layoff imma try to do that n see if it helps me keep my gains or what happens)

 

[ChevChelios]

yeah imagine if the testosterone group was previously trained and lost all their gains then the natural training group was fully untrained.. would throw the whole thing off

Exactly, I dunno how some of these ‘scientists’ even got to that point as it seems like common sense ahah but I guess that’s too much to ask for, as written in the post above I guess imma have to either find some homies to try this on or do it myself during a layoff be it while travelling or if I get injured or something (I would hope not but still I guess it would at least be a productive layoff time instead of the usual depression n anger/frustration ahah), like keep up the blast but only do push-ups n shit n see if the high doses help me keep my gains or if they even help me gain stuff on top of what I already have, now that would still be flawed as I don’t have a team of people at my disposal but still would offer some sort of vague answer instead of the bs this study came with

 

[Ateam2023]

i haven't trained in over a month due to tennis/golfers elbow but have still been eating clean and taking my test c and hgh as normal i haven't noticed any loss of muscle only thing i am not as full as usual which makes total sense bu not training is driving me Crazy i still been doing light cardio as i have a stationery bike at home

 

[Fattyone]

i haven't trained in over a month due to tennis/golfers elbow but have still been eating clean and taking my test c and hgh as normal i haven't noticed any loss of muscle only thing i am not as full as usual which makes total sense bu not training is driving me Crazy i still been doing light cardio as i have a stationery bike at home

I hope you’ve been running bpc for over a month as well. No way I’d take that long off, I’d go insane.

 

[Ateam2023]

Yeah ive been running tb500 as well as bpc157 and i am GOING CRAZY i feel so deflated lol ill be back soon im just praying it gets better

 

[eery]

Anabolic Steroids and Muscle Growth

Just to piss people off, I looked at the research showing clearly that anabolic steroids do in fact build muscle without even having to train.

bodyrecomposition.com

Testosterone dose-response relationships in healthy young men - PubMed

Testosterone increases muscle mass and strength and regulates other physiological processes, but we do not know whether testosterone effects are dose dependent and whether dose requirements for maintaining various androgen-dependent processes are similar. To determine the effects of graded doses...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Yes, steroids can work.