What's your current old man cycle?

[Eddie.]

nor have I heard of lowering fat intake below 75-85 grams causing low estrogen,

Yes this definitely makes no sense.

 

[buck]

Digestive enzymes can be helpful when the body is not producing enough of it's own for the amount of food eaten. some enzymes are geared more towards protein then others.

 

[bastxpl]

Yes this definitely makes no sense.

Fair enough... I know it sounds off on paper. But in my case, every time I drop fat intake much below ~70–75g/day, I start seeing signs that feel like low E2: mood flattening, libido shift, and a weird drop in skin hydration. Bloods haven't always captured the shift clearly, but symptoms track reliably.

Could be correlation, not causation, possibly tied to bile flow, digestion, or even reflux (which I deal with - dipped Copenhagen at 2 cans a day from 14 to 40). I’ve noticed when my reflux flares up, fat digestion and hormonal balance both seem to take a hit. Might be something downstream of fat-soluble vitamin uptake or cholesterol conversion.

Not saying it's universal, just that in my body, lower fat intake starts screwing with the system. I've spent the better part of the last 3 years adding and removing specific aspects and currently taking Digestive Enzymes and Betaine, helps a little.

 

[madcap71]

Currently:

200mg test e
100mg primo e
100mcg T4
25mcg Proviron E/D
3mg Retatrutide

40 years old

 

[Ateam2023]

Currently:

200mg test e
100mg primo e
100mcg T4
25mcg Proviron E/D
3mg Retatrutide

do you have hypothyroidism, is that why you take t4?

 

[bastxpl]

Sorry, I have no suggestions. I have not heard of gastrointestinal symptoms (and systemic issues) merely from going over 180 grams a day, certainly not at only 200, nor have I heard of lowering fat intake below 75-85 grams causing low estrogen, which seems more like it might be related to what you are injecting but not the grams of fat intake.

I would only say to experiment. E.g., if you are trying to eat 250 grams of protein in only 3 meals, that is not likely to work for most.

Maybe increase it gradually. 200 grams, split over five meals is only 40 grams of protein per meal.

40 grams of protein from grilled chicken breast is only 130 grams of chicken, or about 4.58 ounces, or, basically, a little over one quarter of a pound of chicken. I just cannot imagine how that is going to cause any gastrointestinal issues, even eaten every three hours. If it does, however, well, then you know. If it doesn't, then maybe you have found a way to make a small change and make it work.

Like I said. Experiment. Make small changes and find out what works.

I appreciate the thoughtful breakdown, you're right, and I agree: experimentation is key. I’ve tried ramping up slowly, splitting across more meals, using lighter proteins like chicken, etc. The easiest luck I’ve had is with clear whey isolate and light fish, those sit best. But once I go over ~190g/day for a stretch, I start running into GI stuff: reflux, bloating, fatigue, and sometimes a weird brain fog that lifts as soon as I scale it back down. I can hit 200 or 250 on a heavy lift day as long as I am prepared to suffer a little... which I normally will do (once or twice a week).

I’m lucky to live somewhere I can get fresh, pre-prepared meals delivered every morning — five per day is the standard. I order based on total calorie intake, and they’re well-portioned and nutritionally varied, which makes tracking effortless. I usually just plug in a little extra protein or carbs depending on training load, but overall it keeps things consistent and predictable.

As for fat and estrogen — maybe it's downstream of digestion or compound interaction (methylation, bile flow, etc.). But <70g fat consistently triggers low-E2 symptoms for me: mood dip, sleep issues, joint dryness. Re-adding dietary fat fixes it every time.

Not claiming it’s typical, just where my system lands. Really appreciate the detailed reply. I’m always tweaking and logging to refine as
I go.

 

[bastxpl]

Digestive enzymes can be helpful when the body is not producing enough of it's own for the amount of food eaten. some enzymes are geared more towards protein then others.

Here is what I currently use. Best one I've found so far.

 

[madcap71]

do you have hypothyroidism, is that why you take t4?

Nope. Cycle is designed by my coach.
I've just come off a show prep where I ran T3 and T4 concurrently.

Cycle design is for a cruise/maintenance phase before I go back on prep

 

[MrTexas2]

How is the blood pressure?

High but have been on medication since late 50's. Here is something people forget: Even if your body fat is fairly low you heart still has to supply all that muscle.

I have been bodybuilding hard core for 50 years. Total life obsession. Non stop. If I break a leg I am on crutches in the gym and training upper body, if I break an arm same with lower legs. After some surgeries I have taken some time off but not much. I should take a week off twice a year but even that I don't do.

I do keep my training to 5 days a week, but as high intensity as can. I did some pretty heavy duty cycles when I was competing, but never stopped training so I never lost dramatic size. On my baby HRT program I still weigh 235 (ideally should be 225) but the bottom line is my body was meant to be about 170 lbs and my heart was designed for a 170 lb body but has to supply a much larger body.

 

[Zc7219]

I am much, much older. Competed 17 times came fairly close to a pro card (guy who beat me got his) so obviously I have done massive quantity cycles in the past.

But now after 60 here is what I run: 160 mgs of test and abut 140 of primo a week. I do my shots once a week and on day 6 I will take a little bit of test undecanoate powder to give me a little boost, so probably 180 mgs/week.

Sometimes if I am having some joint pain I will add 80 mgs of deca. I do 3 (maybe 3.5) it's of GH 4 days a week (at my age you want to look out for cancer). I am also running 5 mg of Tirzepatide/week as I am a good 10 lbs over my ideal weight.

Train my ass off 5 days a week and eat quality food.

Do you get anything from the primo that you wouldn’t get just from adding more test and running a higher trt. Like 300 or so

 

[size28s]

44 last week. Down 12lbs
500 test 400 mast 50 anavar 50 winny 2 weeks in. 6 more weeks left

 

[MrTexas2]

Do you get anything from the primo that you wouldn’t get just from adding more test and running a higher trt. Like 300 or so

I am trying to keep my androgens as low as possible.

 

[Zc7219]

I am trying to keep my androgens as low as possible.

That’s understandable. Wasn’t sure if you noticed better gains with primo. Thanks.

 

[TRTSCOUT]

Do you get anything from the primo that you wouldn’t get just from adding more test and running a higher trt. Like 300 or so

For many the Primo benefit is keeping E2 in check, plus the gainz

 

[sinistral]

For many the Primo benefit is keeping E2 in check, plus the gainz

Keeps my SHBG in check too.

 

[roofer22]

I've been counting down the days till I can blast again. Been taking care of medical issues not related to gear. Anyway down to the last two weeks, have my baseline bloods scheduled, getting ready to go!

Well I had a good ab workout the other day and blew out a new hernia or an existing one I had fixed years ago. I have an appointment Monday. I'm no dr but it doesn't look good. I expect to be told I need surgery. Theres no good time for this shit but the timing sucks. I was really ramping up to push hard.

Maybe the doc will suprise me with good news.

 

[Ateam2023]

I've been counting down the days till I can blast again. Been taking care of medical issues not related to gear. Anyway down to the last two weeks, have my baseline bloods scheduled, getting ready to go!

Well I had a good ab workout the other day and blew out a new hernia or an existing one I had fixed years ago. I have an appointment Monday. I'm no dr but it doesn't look good. I expect to be told I need surgery. Theres no good time for this shit but the timing sucks. I was really ramping up to push hard.

Maybe the doc will suprise me with good news.

is it umbilical hernia?

 

[roofer22]

is it umbilical hernia?

I won't know for sure till I see the dr but it's right above my navel. My wife's been a nurse 20 years and she said that's what it looks like.

I had surgery years ago for one so it may have come lose or something.

 

[verylargeshoes]

I won't know for sure till I see the dr but it's right above my navel. My wife's been a nurse 20 years and she said that's what it looks like.
I had surgery years ago for one so it may have come lose or something.

Exact same thing happened to me. Had one fixed, and the repair failed. So I'll be getting a mesh this time around. My doc says 6 weeks for a full return to lifting, which isn't too bad.

 

[roofer22]

Exact same thing happened to me. Had one fixed, and the repair failed. So I'll be getting a mesh this time around. My doc says 6 weeks for a full return to lifting, which isn't too bad.

Six weeks isn't bad. I think mine failed but it's all a guess till I get some imaging.