MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
When to take NAC?
- Thread starter Juicey239
- Start date
ironwill1951
New Member
thank you doc a very good read.
Oh please enlighten us simpleton Sami what are the current therapeutic indications for supplemental bile salts such as UDCA ?
Hint almost all involve some form of PRE-EXISTING cholestasis such as PBC !
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ironwill1951
New Member
you should take a break from here and rest up, every time you open your mouth lately you stick your foot in it .
[QUOTE="Dr JIM, post: 1696668, member: 50161"
Hint almost all involve some form of PRE-EXISTING cholestasis such as PBC ![/QUOTE]
SUCH AS …………… Well,what cha know the use of these agents as AAS "liver protectors" is notably ABSENT!
Hint almost all involve some form of PRE-EXISTING cholestasis such as PBC ![/QUOTE]
SUCH AS …………… Well,what cha know the use of these agents as AAS "liver protectors" is notably ABSENT!
Oh so you want an opinion rather than an evidence based recommendation?
Hmm "literally everyone" except those on THIS thread, lol!
Finally if you have "researched" NAC post the SCIENTIFIC citations (rather than bro opinions offered on other forums) that support its use for anything else but APAP ingestions.
I mean WHY the heck do some noobs ask a question if they already have "the answer"?
I'm just trying to help you save some money but if NAC is what you want or think you need, (rather than liver enzyme tests) so be it.
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Yea but pre existing choleostasis or induced choleostasis aren't in the end the same thing?
Shouldn't Udca still help in recovering faster from a oral use. I have never thought of using it to PROTECT but more to aid your body in decreasing the effect of the orals use.
@ironwill1951
I have not stated that udca must be taken. I had read about it and to me it seemed the only product that made sense to take. I respect your suggestions, but thanks I'll keep sticking my foot in it
Shouldn't Udca still help in recovering faster from a oral use. I have never thought of using it to PROTECT but more to aid your body in decreasing the effect of the orals use.
@ironwill1951
I have not stated that udca must be taken. I had read about it and to me it seemed the only product that made sense to take. I respect your suggestions, but thanks I'll keep sticking my foot in it
and in select cases of those with Cystic Fibrosis ......
No. Just bc something has limited, and I mean limited bc it seems like overall mortality is not affected, success in treating something, does not mean it can prevent it which is what UDCA and NAC use is recommended for.
Test_Subject
Member
The best "liver protector" that you can take is dihydrogen monoxide at extremely high daily doses.
Don't bother with the $80 snake oil.
Don't bother with the $80 snake oil.
NOT EVEN CLOSE.
The research question in situations such as this is:
THE NUMBER NEEDED TO TREAT ! Or how many AAS cyclists will need to be treated with UDCA to prevent the development of CHOLESTASIS? AND will such prophylactic TX alter that individuals outcome or prognosis?
While the answer is UNKNOWN with respect to AAS, it's likely THOUSANDS if not TENS OF THOUSANDS of oral AAS runners would need to be treated with such agents and MOST would have recovered regardless!
So it's like asking should I be taking an ANTIBIOTIC to prevent an infection should I cut myself in the GYM.
And that answer is a resounding NOOOOOO!
Folk just don't need these "liver protectors" but the do need to limit the dosage, duration and the number of Oral agents being run during a cycle AND need to obtain baseline LFTS.
If there's a significant rise in LFTS the ONLY therapy proven effective is to DISCONTINUE the offending agent!
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Ok and that I do understand but it's because we don't have any real studies or better said enough subjects that used udca during AAS oral and got a better recovery or less hepatoxicity that we do not recommend it.
If we had it could be and I say again could be that udca is indeed helpful for our AAS oral use.
Am I wrong?
Plus let's assume that I can get udca directly from the pharmacy at 6$ a box of 300mg/30 pills. Isn't it so cheap that it's still worth it to run just in case it is really helpful?
I'm Genuinely asking.
If we had it could be and I say again could be that udca is indeed helpful for our AAS oral use.
Am I wrong?
Plus let's assume that I can get udca directly from the pharmacy at 6$ a box of 300mg/30 pills. Isn't it so cheap that it's still worth it to run just in case it is really helpful?
I'm Genuinely asking.
1) Yea but pre existing choleostasis or induced choleostasis aren't in the end the same thing?
2) Shouldn't Udca still help in recovering faster from a oral use. I have never thought of using it to PROTECT but more to aid your body in decreasing the effect of the orals use.
@ironwill1951
I have not stated that udca must be taken. I had read about it and to me it seemed the only product that made sense to take. I respect your suggestions, but thanks I'll keep sticking my foot in it
ASKED and already answered BUT......
1) NO
2) How does one "recover" from an infection if they don't have one!
The fact IS the frequency of AAS induced cholestasis, esp that which is significant enough to cause signs and or symptoms, must be VERY LOW, and one doesn't "recover" from an ailment which is NOT present!
Jim you quoted the wrong post or you didn't see my last one. Go check it out is above yours.
I'll rewrite it for you:
Ok and that I do understand but it's because we don't have any real studies or better said enough subjects that used udca during AAS oral and got a better recovery or less hepatoxicity that we do not recommend it.
If we had it could be and I say again could be that udca is indeed helpful for our AAS oral use.
Am I wrong?
Plus let's assume that I can get udca directly from the pharmacy at 6$ a box of 300mg/30 pills. Isn't it so cheap that it's still worth it to run just in case it is really helpful?
I'm Genuinely asking.
doesn't choleostasis form
Because the bile duct get obstructed? Shouldn't the udca reduce the rate of which the bile get obstructed?
I for example even on 40mg of anavar for 4 weeks get increase in liver values and a borderline bilirubin. I can tell from my stool that get greasy that I have a start of a choleostasis (am I wrong?) of course I never experienced jaundice but shouldn't the udca help in the formation of a proper choleostasis?
I'm trying to understand properly the whole thing. I'm not trying to being a nuisance on purpose
ASKED AND ANSWERED but.....
Why don't you spend some time investigating the definition and patho-physiology behind CHOLESTASIS.
More specifically HEPATO-CELLULAR CHOLESTASIS.
Why don't you spend some time investigating the definition and patho-physiology behind CHOLESTASIS.
More specifically HEPATO-CELLULAR CHOLESTASIS.
When I get home from work, I'll research it
Juicey239
New Member
I apologize Dr Jim. seriously. I've searched plenty of questions on google which lead me to this site and saw your posts with knowledgable info. I know i sound really sarcastic but I'm being 100 percent genuine. once again sorry for calling you a keyboard warrior lol
I now this is an old thread but come on people a quick search on pubmed show a lot of benefits of NAC although not much profit can be made from it so it's not as well known as it should be. Bottom line is it's proven to elevate glutathione, the master antioxidant, you people are really saying that wouldn't help even a little with oral AAS organ damage? GTOH Oh and it's like 10 bucks for a 2 months supply so why not?
7 health benefits of glutathione (Not pubmed but still seems pretty valid)
7 health benefits of glutathione (Not pubmed but still seems pretty valid)
Unless you have liver disease and use APAP on a regular basis stick with walnuts since they have antioxidants, nutritional value and are on sale at Wallmart for 5 bucks a pound, “now that’s a savings of 50%”.
Rosconow
Well-known Member
One word..... tudca.
