When/Why did training change?

[SuperJew]

I'm often curious why training ( for bodybuilding ) is different than it used to be. Whenever I read anything by the old timers, or when I've had the privelage to interact with them, they all advocate the same training program. This is the typical " 6 days a week, each bodypart twice " program that we all know about. And it seems to be across the board. Arnold, Robinson, Haney, Paris, Franco, etc. all preach the same system. Though NOW it seems like everyone advocates 4-6 days a week in the gym while hitting each bodypart once a week. i.e. MONDAY = CHEST.......Athletes in any other sport all constantly training. I don't believe that has ever changed. Why, in bodybuilding, did we all decide that we needed to cut our workload in half? Who has thoughts?

 

[Starkraven]

they changed because they realized you grow more with less training frequency. those BBers are from the 70's and 80s and todays BBers are MUCH bigger and denser, all the gear was still available. I know GH wasnt used back in those days but still, that isnt the only factor to the growth of todays size of BBers. i cant do 6 days per week, 2 bodyparts, etc i burn out quick and most people do too. Those are just my thoughts though.

 

[Bob Smith]

they changed because they realized you grow more with less training frequency.

That is absolutely, hands down, without a doubt wrong. All of the research evaluating training shows the exact opposite of what you stated. Beyond that, anecdotal evidence from high level strength/performance coaches also shows the exact opposite. Keeping overall weekly volume the same, the more frequently a person workouts, the more that person will grow.

Todays BBers arent 50 pounds bigger because of "advanved" training. They are 50 pounds bigger because of their drug plans, plain and simple.

 

[Grizzly]

Yeah, motherfucker! LOL That's pretty much the same sentence I was going to quote and the same response I would have given.

 

[AnimalMass]

Yep, exactly.

Fact is, when Arnold was training it wasn't that they trained with too much frequency, it was that they trained with too much volume. They advocated lower intensity (w/ regards to 1rm), high frequency, high volume.

Then the "one time per week per bodypart" rut was born. All of the sudden, frequency became low, intensity was moderate, and volume was moderate.

Today, with the highly advanced Soviet techniques and studies being translated after the fall of Communism, we have seen that high intensity, moderate to higher frequency, and moderate volume is the best way to go. ie. - work out 4 days per week, training each body part twice per week, or 3x per week training the whole body in each workout.

Matt

 

[kasper2133]

Today, with the highly advanced Soviet techniques and studies being translated after the fall of Communism, we have seen that high intensity, moderate to higher frequency, and moderate volume is the best way to go. ie. - work out 4 days per week, training each body part twice per week, or 3x per week training the whole body in each workout.

Matt

Isnt most Russian studies pointed at strength training and not bodybuilding?

 

[AnimalMass]

Yes and no. The fact is, what the Soviets did for decades was try multiple types of training to acheive different reslts. Much of it was geared towards strength training, but there were times when the athletes needed to quickly add muscle and/or go up weight classes, so hypertrophy studies were done as well.

Matt

 

[Ramstein II]

How the Old Timers trained

Keep in mind that a lot of the old timers didnt train that hard (meaning with so much volume) year round. They often turned up the heat considerably while on steroids and came off during the off season wherein they did much less volume and frequency. Bbers in the 50s and 60s and even some parts of the 70s (depending on who youre talking about) would often use steroids only in the 6-12 weeks before a contest. The doses were relatively small and did not involve test. Besides that, they did not usually stay on steroids. During the year. ( There are exceptions. Some well known Bbers worked out hard all year. )

HIT Influence

Why did it change? I think Dorian Yates and the modified HIT movement changed a lot of how people train. In the 90s all you heard about was the scourge of overtraining. Weve all heard that you grow when youre recovering. So, logically under that rationale more rest means more growth. Many bodybuilder saw people like Yates showing growth and hardness like never before seen and they knew he was taking 7 days rest for each bodypart. What grew out of this were moderate to high volume workouts with long rest periods which is what is in vogue today. Few have adopted the modified HIT style of training for various reasons, such as the danger of using so much weight. Also, high volume training, at least culturally, is bodybuilding.

Drugs

Some people I respect have stated that with the current drug programs of athletes, especially bodybuilders, training is a far second in importance. The drug use today is drastically different than the drug use 30-50 years ago.

Safety

People will gain on 1x week training. Maybe not as much as more frequent training. However, when you get into heavy poundage, high frequency training can get dangerous if you dont change the exercises upand you dont gain much when youre injured. Many bbers want their connective tissue to get a break.

Blended routines

This is a point not understood by many. If you ever get the chance to talk to some bodybuilding gurus out in California, youll find that current routines used by Bbers who know what they are doing dont usually involve true 1X a week training. They blend their splits for direct and indirect work. Some of the old timers talk about this. As a side, Ive used this blending approach with good success. However, the split gives the illusion of 1x a week training to many. People forget that your triceps work hard when you bench and your chest works hard when you do dips and your biceps work hard when you pull etc....

 

[MANWHORE]

Yes and no. The fact is, what the Soviets did for decades was try multiple types of training to acheive different reslts. Much of it was geared towards strength training, but there were times when the athletes needed to quickly add muscle and/or go up weight classes, so hypertrophy studies were done as well.

Matt

Isn't it true that everyone thought the bulgarians had secret to training until it was found that they were using massive amounts of drugs and their only secret was hiding it?

 

[Freddy]

Magazines started advocating smaller training programs because people are fucking lazy.

If you want to keep selling magazines, you have to tell readers that you can get them twice as big with half as much effort, otherwise you can't compete with the other magazines. People are fucking pussies and buy into it because they'd rather watch Real World than train hard.

BS, Grizz, AM, etc all beat me to the other issues.

The fact is, the best in the world train bodyparts at least 2x a week. That goes for powerlifting, olympic lifting, strongman, highland games, throwing, sprinting, etc.

If you go to Colorado springs, you better be prepared to train 6 days a week, and 2-3x a DAY.

Same thing at Westside Barbell, and JS's gym.

The Metal Militia trains their bench press 2x a week. The first day is for 3 hours, and (a few days later) the second day is for 2 hours

Southside gym trains their back 4 times a week, hard. They do goodmornings 3 times a week, and some form of barbell or machine row 2x a week (the two overlap).

The one thing all these gyms and training programs have in common is hard work.

If you want to be the best, you have to train like the best. If you want to be a lazy ass pussy, train like a lazy ass pussy.

 

[monsoon]

Thanks for the new signature freddy.

 

[Freddy]

Isn't it true that everyone thought the bulgarians had secret to training until it was found that they were using massive amounts of drugs and their only secret was hiding it?

The Bulgarian "secret" to training is hard work.

Every Eastern bloc nation used steroids in competition. So has America. They won medals, we didn't.

The Bulgarian system has evolved quite a bit, and JS can go into more detail, but its basically this:

1.) Train (almost) exclusively the competition lifts; the clean & jerk, and the snatch. Do almost no assistance work.

2.) Additionally, do quite a bit of front squatting, and some back squatting on occation. This is just about the ONLY assistance work you'll do.

3.) Train very fucking hard, all the time. Do tons of volume with tons of frequency, and lift maximal weights often.

4.) The idea is to perfect technique. The lifts are all about technique, so if you learn it, you'll outlift the competition. The lifts themselves build muscle efficiently because you're only building muscle exactly where and how you need it.

5.) Don't be a fucking pussy. If you're a pussy, we send you home and your family starves. We have thousands of lifters to choice from, and we don't need you. You need us. Have a nice day.

The Bulgarians are badass. Simple, yet brutally effective. It was much more than just the drugs, my friend.

 

[Freddy]

Thanks for the new signature freddy.

Haha, you're welcome.

 

[MANWHORE]

Your talking about powerlifters? ... Freddy? I'm talking about BBing

 

[Millard]

Today, with the highly advanced Soviet techniques and studies being translated after the fall of Communism, we have seen that high intensity, moderate to higher frequency, and moderate volume is the best way to go. ie. - work out 4 days per week, training each body part twice per week, or 3x per week training the whole body in each workout.

I'm a convert to the higher frequency/moderate volume school. I followed Bryan Haycock's HST for a year and gained 20 lbs LBM. And I was no beginner when I tried it. I'd trained for 12+ years at the time and had already gained 60+lbs LBM over this period, mostly in the first few years. So, 20lbs was quite dramatic for me.

 

[Bob Smith]

Your talking about powerlifters? ... Freddy? I'm talking about BBing

Add more food and youve got a BBing program.

 

[Bob Smith]

I'm a convert to the higher frequency/moderate volume school. I followed Bryan Haycock's HST for a year and gained 20 lbs LBM. And I was no beginner when I tried it. I'd trained for 12+ years at the time and had already gained 60+lbs LBM over this period, mostly in the first few years. So, 20lbs was quite dramatic for me.

Admin, I remember seeing your pics after one of your first few HST cycles. You are one large s.o.b! Guys, in all honesty Admin could put about 99.9% of Meso members to shame with his size and level of conditioning. Guys like you and MaxRep are quite inspirational to what is possible if you are consistent over long periods of time.

 

[Freddy]

Your talking about powerlifters? ... Freddy? I'm talking about BBing

You think the athletes I'm talking about look like twigs, eh? Have you seen what world class powerlifters, olympic lifters, strongman, and throwers look like?

They know a thing or two about hypertrophy.

Here's an example. See the "skinny" fellow to the far right? Thats Mike Ruggiera of Westside Barbell. I dunno, it could be the fact that he's 6 feet wide, but I'm willing to take his advice about training.

 

[MANWHORE]

Add more food and youve got a BBing program.

OK,if you say so

 

[AnimalMass]

The Bulgarian "secret" to training is hard work.

Every Eastern bloc nation used steroids in competition. So has America. They won medals, we didn't.

The Bulgarian system has evolved quite a bit, and JS can go into more detail, but its basically this:

1.) Train (almost) exclusively the competition lifts; the clean & jerk, and the snatch. Do almost no assistance work.

2.) Additionally, do quite a bit of front squatting, and some back squatting on occation. This is just about the ONLY assistance work you'll do.

3.) Train very fucking hard, all the time. Do tons of volume with tons of frequency, and lift maximal weights often.

4.) The idea is to perfect technique. The lifts are all about technique, so if you learn it, you'll outlift the competition. The lifts themselves build muscle efficiently because you're only building muscle exactly where and how you need it.

5.) Don't be a fucking pussy. If you're a pussy, we send you home and your family starves. We have thousands of lifters to choice from, and we don't need you. You need us. Have a nice day.

The Bulgarians are badass. Simple, yet brutally effective. It was much more than just the drugs, my friend.

God I love the Bulgarians. Hands down, my favorite country for training. The Soveits were great too. Walk into the gym, take your pants off, squat all day in your underwear. Go to bed. Rinse. Repeat.

Also, *******, I started training with higher frequency 3 years ago - in a dual factor organized manner. Granted, I'm a powerlifter. But when I started (3 years ago) I was 170lbs. Today I'm 285. Now am I fatter than what alot of you bodybuilder guys would like? Sure. (But not very fat, if you look at my deadlift photo in the gallery). But I have to do what I have to do to get stronger. I'll compete at a ripped 242 next summer. This stuff works, regardless of what your training goals are.

Matt