Who here is on a statin?

[y777]

Want to chime in, I'm a big fan of throwing in cardarine to help w/ lipids near the end of a cycle when I need a little more lipid support;

I'd def give this a shot and keep using this alternative before I resulting to statins. I know people mention the cancer risk, but this drug is very clean, I'm willing to bet its better for my body as opposed to risking the statin side effects.

Lipid support progression: Niacin+Omega 3+Citrus Bergamot->Cardarine->Statins (stacking each step by step when needed)

how long and what dose do you run cardarine for after a cycle? what kind of change in HDL do you see?

thank you

 

[Anonymous35]

how long and what dose do you run cardarine for after a cycle? what kind of change in HDL do you see?

thank you

to be honest it mostly something that improves your endurance
And being prove to increase the risk of cancer so no
If you want to increase hdl , fibrate does it, statin too but a little bit less
Niacine too and it’s a vitamine so more natural

 

[Georgetrenson]

how long and what dose do you run cardarine for after a cycle? what kind of change in HDL do you see?

thank you

Have not gotten bloodwork on Cardarine, I can only attest anecdotally that cardiovascular health FELT better when running with Anavar and high dose Mast.

When not taking it, breathing felt heavier, more difficult to perform cardio most likely due to compromised lipids. Threw cardarine in and felt like a million bucks, I just felt healthier and my breathing returned to normal.

10mg/ml a day was all I need to achieve this effect, Ive heard not to run for more than 3 months; I dont think you have to adhere to a hard and fast rule as long as your just saving it for the absolute end of a cycle when doses are maximized and you need peak lipid support.

 

[Georgetrenson]

to be honest it mostly something that improves your endurance
And being prove to increase the risk of cancer so no
If you want to increase hdl , fibrate does it, statin too but a little bit less
Niacine too and it’s a vitamine so more natural

It improves your endurance because it improves your lipids; the two things are interconnected.

Do more cardio, you’ll have a healthier heart; have a healthier heart, youre able to do more cardio. One of many chicken and egg scenarios of the human body.

I used to barely use it thinking it should just be saved for cardio use cases, but after my last cycle I found it fantastic for lipid support near the end of a cycle when your heart is under high stress; felt fantastic on it and wellbeing / health greatly improved.

I generally think research chemicals are crap, but this compound is seriously underrated; its a good drug, I dont take drugs that make me feel like sh*t.

 

[Anonymous35]

Have not gotten bloodwork on Cardarine, I can only attest anecdotally that cardiovascular health FELT better when running with Anavar and high dose Mast.

When not taking it, breathing felt heavier, more difficult to perform cardio most likely due to compromised lipids. Threw cardarine in and felt like a million bucks, I just felt healthier and my breathing returned to normal.

10mg/ml a day was all I need to achieve this effect, Ive heard not to run for more than 3 months; I dont think you have to adhere to a hard and fast rule as long as your just saving it for the absolute end of a cycle when doses are maximized and you need peak lipid support.

Yeah normal it’s the goal of the coumpound but that doesn’t mean you are healthier
You feel better that different

But good for you if everything is good

 

[Georgetrenson]

Yeah normal it’s the goal of the coumpound but that doesn’t mean you are healthier
You feel better that different

But good for you if everything is good

End of the day, we take drugs to feel good. Quality over quantity of life, thats how I personally roll.

 

[Anonymous35]

It improves your endurance because it improves your lipids; the two things are interconnected.

Do more cardio, you’ll have a healthier heart; have a healthier heart, youre able to do more cardio. One of many chicken and egg scenarios with the human body.

Statin does too but i don’t have a better cardio

Its primarely increase oxydation of fatty acid
Which is more used to the muscle
Remember at anaerobie you used 2 principals sources glucose and fat
Because its increase the oxydation of fat and then creation of ATP energie
Then the muscles can perform longer because it’s change the metabolism using more fat for anaerobi activitys

But that doesn’t change that much your lipid profils
Its mostly your bf

 

[Anonymous35]

End of the day, we take drugs to feel good. Quality over quantity of life, thats how I personally roll.

Same

 

[Georgetrenson]

Statin does too but i don’t have a better cardio

Its primarely increase oxydation of fatty acid
Which is more used to the muscle
Remember at anaerobie you used 2 principals sources glucose and fat
Because its increase the oxydation of fat and then creation of ATP energie
Then the muscles can perform longer because it’s change the metabolism using more fat for anaerobi activitys

But that doesn’t change that much your lipid profils
Its mostly your bf

Good stuff to mind. All I can say is that it only did good to throw it in the end of my cycle; whether it improved my lipids or not, who knows, but it will certainly allow you to handle higher doses of lipid toxic compounds, which is a very powerful outcome.

 

[Anonymous35]

But i will ask you to check you’re heart but those sign of what you describe can be a sign of heart failure
Or maybe just hypertrophy but you should check it

 

[Anonymous35]

Good stuff to mind. All I can say is that it only did good to throw it in the end of my cycle; whether it improved my lipids or not, who knows, but it will certainly allow you to handle higher doses of lipid toxic compounds, which is a very powerful outcome.

I know but PEDs can shadow sometimes some serious conditions due to the well being they give you

I had an acute heart failure in the past too in the past
Didn’t even feel it because of the drugs but on the ECG it was obvious so be careful
Now it’s fine but it wasn’t in august

 

[Georgetrenson]

I know but PEDs can shadow sometimes some serious conditions due to the well being they give you

I had an acute heart failure in the past too in the past
Didn’t even feel it because of the drugs but on the ECG it was obvious so be careful
Now it’s fine but it wasn’t in august

Planning to get an ECG this week. All of mine have checked out in the past, fingers crossed. Was trying to find a way to get a calcium scan done, but I can't find a radiologist that doesn't require a doctor's order.

 

[Anonymous35]

Planning to get an ECG this week. All of mine have checked out in the past, fingers crossed. Was trying to find a way to get a calcium scan done, but I can't find a radiologist that doesn't require a doctor's order.

To get a scan here in france is prescription only

Great for the ecg very important to do

 

[egruberman]

My wife's cousin stopped bc his "hip hurt" on 5 mg of Crestor I mean it's insane.

That's the thing, you take a bunch of fucked up, unhealthy people and put 'em on a statin and suddenly it becomes the cause of every malady they may have. The adverse side effects for statins have been studied exhaustively and myalgia occurs in about 1 in 20.

I am 43 and cycled heavily 15 years ago and have a calcium score of 175 or so IIRC. I wish I knew this years ago. Also my Lp(a) is EIGHT which is rock bottom so this isn't genetic. It's from steroid abuse IMO.

Lp(a) is genetic. FH is a genetic. They're different set of alleles. Just because one is good, doesn't mean the other is and so I wouldn't necessarily attribute your lipids to steroid abuse. Could be, but maybe not.

there are many more of us here learning valuable health information, advice, and real life experiences that could make a difference in future outcomes.

There are those occasions where I find myself spending 10 minutes typing a wall of text wondering what I'm doing spilling meaningless words into the ether and then I consider that it is possible that this information could extend someone's life. I mean, it's in my head, might as well get it out.

the experts are unsure what the consequences could be from LDL or total cholesterol being too low.

Someone asked me this direct question in DM, here's what I wrote:

There's very little literature on the subject, but what there is can be gleaned from people with FHBL or familial hypobetalipoproteinemia which is a rare genetic disorder that causes a deficiency in cholesterol. This can cause fatty liver disease, nutrient malabsorption, and neurological issues related to a deficiency in fat soluble vitamins.

For people with this condition, ApoB below 25mg/dL becomes a concern. I've read other literature such as this study: Low-Density Lipoprotein Cholesterol Level cannot be too Low: Considerations from Clinical Trials, Human Genetics, and Biology - PMC

Can't be too low, but if you read it, it says down to an LDL-C of 30mg/dL. Tom Dayspring suggests <80mg/dL for general population and <60mg/dL for folks with other risk factors. I've read some of the literature on regressing ASCVD which *may* occur at <60mg/dL, which is what I'm aiming for.

Cholesterol is a precursor for testosterone, estrogen, cortisol and progesterone as well as a requirement for neurological health.

Well, don't need to synthesize testosterone if you're happily injecting it, but in reality at anything north of 30mg/dL I doubt any of this is an issue.

 

[Sampei]

That's the thing, you take a bunch of fucked up, unhealthy people and put 'em on a statin and suddenly it becomes the cause of every malady they may have. The adverse side effects for statins have been studied exhaustively and myalgia occurs in about 1 in 20.



Lp(a) is genetic. FH is a genetic. They're different set of alleles. Just because one is good, doesn't mean the other is and so I wouldn't necessarily attribute your lipids to steroid abuse. Could be, but maybe not.



There are those occasions where I find myself spending 10 minutes typing a wall of text wondering what I'm doing spilling meaningless words into the ether and then I consider that it is possible that this information could extend someone's life. I mean, it's in my head, might as well get it out.


Someone asked me this direct question in DM, here's what I wrote:

There's very little literature on the subject, but what there is can be gleaned from people with FHBL or familial hypobetalipoproteinemia which is a rare genetic disorder that causes a deficiency in cholesterol. This can cause fatty liver disease, nutrient malabsorption, and neurological issues related to a deficiency in fat soluble vitamins.

For people with this condition, ApoB below 25mg/dL becomes a concern. I've read other literature such as this study: Low-Density Lipoprotein Cholesterol Level cannot be too Low: Considerations from Clinical Trials, Human Genetics, and Biology - PMC

Can't be too low, but if you read it, it says down to an LDL-C of 30mg/dL. Tom Dayspring suggests <80mg/dL for general population and <60mg/dL for folks with other risk factors. I've read some of the literature on regressing ASCVD which *may* occur at <60mg/dL, which is what I'm aiming for.



Well, don't need to synthesize testosterone if you're happily injecting it, but in reality at anything north of 30mg/dL I doubt any of this is an issue.

Is ApoB below 25mg ok for ppl without that condition?

 

[Anonymous35]

That's the thing, you take a bunch of fucked up, unhealthy people and put 'em on a statin and suddenly it becomes the cause of every malady they may have. The adverse side effects for statins have been studied exhaustively and myalgia occurs in about 1 in 20.



Lp(a) is genetic. FH is a genetic. They're different set of alleles. Just because one is good, doesn't mean the other is and so I wouldn't necessarily attribute your lipids to steroid abuse. Could be, but maybe not.



There are those occasions where I find myself spending 10 minutes typing a wall of text wondering what I'm doing spilling meaningless words into the ether and then I consider that it is possible that this information could extend someone's life. I mean, it's in my head, might as well get it out.


Someone asked me this direct question in DM, here's what I wrote:

There's very little literature on the subject, but what there is can be gleaned from people with FHBL or familial hypobetalipoproteinemia which is a rare genetic disorder that causes a deficiency in cholesterol. This can cause fatty liver disease, nutrient malabsorption, and neurological issues related to a deficiency in fat soluble vitamins.

For people with this condition, ApoB below 25mg/dL becomes a concern. I've read other literature such as this study: Low-Density Lipoprotein Cholesterol Level cannot be too Low: Considerations from Clinical Trials, Human Genetics, and Biology - PMC

Can't be too low, but if you read it, it says down to an LDL-C of 30mg/dL. Tom Dayspring suggests <80mg/dL for general population and <60mg/dL for folks with other risk factors. I've read some of the literature on regressing ASCVD which *may* occur at <60mg/dL, which is what I'm aiming for.



Well, don't need to synthesize testosterone if you're happily injecting it, but in reality at anything north of 30mg/dL I doubt any of this is an issue.

It will be an issue cognetive function is still important

 

[Anonymous35]

A cholesterol that low is never happened without medication
So you’r gonna tell my that by default the body is gonna have a sed point of cholesterol that it will be harmfull for him ? Really ?

And then your body gonna need medication to live healthier ?
when he is already normal at perfect homeostasis ?

Then tell me why everybody isn’t on statin then because 0,7 of ldl never happened without it
Maybe 2% of people and i’m generous

Explaîn to me why

 

[Sicsemptyran]

So you’r gonna tell my that by default the body is gonna have a sed point of cholesterol that it will be harmfull for him ? Really ?

And then your body gonna need medication to live healthier ?
when he is already normal at perfect homeostasis ?

I mean, yeah. Considering the leading cause of death is ASCVD, yes I would say the body absolutely has a set point of cholesterol that is harmful for you.

Then tell me why everybody isn’t on statin then because 0,7 of ldl never happened without it

As a pharm tech I feel like you'd know that statins are the most prescribed drug, right? Basically everyone is on a statin.

 

[egruberman]

Is ApoB below 25mg ok for ppl without that condition?

Not by my reasoning. It seems like you would induce hypobetalipoproteinemia and suffer all the same issues of malabsorption of nutrients, cognitive issues, etc. I'm going to encourage anyone interested in this topic of what happens when ApoB and LDL are too low, do a little reading on FHBL. There's some interesting data on the topic including how the condition informs interventions for hyperlipidemia.

It will be an issue cognetive function is still important

You may think your comments are helpful, but they aren't making a lot of sense. It may be the language barrier. Yes, cognitive function is important and it may suffer at very low levels of ApoB.

A cholesterol that low is never happened without medication
So you’r gonna tell my that by default the body is gonna have a sed point of cholesterol that it will be harmfull for him ? Really ?

This supports my point exactly. Nobody has ever gotten as jacked as many of the people on this forum without "medication". Doesn't make it bad or good, it just is.

And then your body gonna need medication to live healthier ?
when he is already normal at perfect homeostasis ?

Why yes, your body gonna need medication to live healthier, particularly if your body has any one of a number of common genetic variants that cause elevated lipids. Your presumption is that a perfect homeostasis is normal, but it isn't. Evolution gives zero fucks if humans live well past reproductive maturity, which is the point at which ASCVD progresses sufficiently to start killing them.

Then tell me why everybody isn’t on statin then because 0,7 of ldl never happened without it
Maybe 2% of people and i’m generous

I wager that if everybody was on a statin, this graph would look different:

Explaîn to me

I'll explain to you that your arguments are weak and unsubstantiated and that you are doing more harm to your reputation than you are helping the community here. I trust that you have valuable information to share, so I'm going to ask you to spend a little more time consolidating your thoughts so that you can make more coherent posts.

 

[Sampei]

Not by my reasoning. It seems like you would induce hypobetalipoproteinemia and suffer all the same issues of malabsorption of nutrients, cognitive issues, etc.



You may think your comments are helpful, but they aren't making a lot of sense. It may be the language barrier. Yes, cognitive function is important and it may suffer at very low levels of ApoB.



This supports my point exactly. Nobody has ever gotten as jacked as many of the people on this forum without "medication". Doesn't make it bad or good, it just is.



Why yes, your body gonna need medication to live healthier, particularly if your body has any one of a number of common genetic variants that cause elevated lipids. Your presumption is that a perfect homeostasis is normal, but it isn't. Evolution gives zero fucks if humans live well past reproductive maturity, which is the point at which ASCVD progresses sufficiently to start killing them.



I wager that if everybody was on a statin, this graph would look different:

View attachment 311432



I'll explain to you that your arguments are weak and unsubstantiated and that you are doing more harm to your reputation than you are helping the community here. I trust that you have valuable information to share, so I'm going to ask you to spend a little more time consolidating your thoughts so that you can make more coherent posts.

I have got apoB of 22mg without any lowering cholesterol drug... I'll do soon new blood works to see how it is after a 4 months cycle.

I feel fine tho. Don't know what to do anyway, it's not like I tried to bring it that low on purpose