Who here is on a statin?

[egruberman]

I have got apoB of 22mg without any lowering cholesterol drug... I'll do soon new blood works to see how it is after a 4 months cycle.

I feel fine tho. Don't know what to do anyway, it's not like I tried to bring it that low on purpose

That is unusual. If that marker repeats, you might want to look into it. Treatment entails high doses of vitamin E and a need to watch out for NAFLD. How are your triglycerides?

 

[Sampei]

That is unusual. If that marker repeats, you might want to look into it. Treatment entails high doses of vitamin E and a need to watch out for NAFLD. How are your triglycerides?

73 the triglycerides

I had a full abdomen scan not so long ago and my liver was fine

 

[anon55]

A cholesterol that low is never happened without medication
So you’r gonna tell my that by default the body is gonna have a sed point of cholesterol that it will be harmfull for him ? Really ?

And then your body gonna need medication to live healthier ?
when he is already normal at perfect homeostasis ?

Then tell me why everybody isn’t on statin then because 0,7 of ldl never happened without it
Maybe 2% of people and i’m generous

Explaîn to me why

Yeah cancer is natural, why the body would create one. Cancer is great!

 

[jtmarlin]

Goddamn, get on a PCSK9i ASAP.

Copay card is easy peasy. There are no income limitations or anything that I'm aware of. I applied, got it, and discovered that I didn't need it when I went to use it.

As it turns out, my employer has a rider on the pharmacy benefit for "preventative" meds that include both Repatha and bempedoic acid without need for prior auth.

So, do this. Get the copay card and the Rx and get it filled. There's no reason you can't add in the Zetia anyway, so do that too. Even better if you can get Nexlizet. I'd switch to Crestor at some point for greater efficacy, but do that when you're not changing anything else. Some people experience sides with one or the other.

Look at it like this. You're in the process of dying from this disease. The calcium score is proof of that. No matter what else you do, the lower you can get your ApoB, the longer you will go without a MACE.

Cool thing about a myocardial infarction is that the most common presentation is easy to spot. You'll be dead 1/3 of the time. The other 2/3 of the time you're guaranteed a life of exciting new medical interventions.

I got the insurance approval for Repatha today so I will be starting that soon. I'll update my numbers for you guys to see. Nothing, then Lipitor 10, then Lipitor 10 + Zetia 10 + Repatha (not sure of the dose yet).

 

[anon55]

Pitavastatin is my favorite statin. No sides and no effect on my liver
My lipids checkup from this morning

 

[BamaCrazy]

I think I might have made a mistake with my labs but I learned something from it.

Yesterday I went in for extensive lab work. Fitomics had a sale late last year so I bought several panels checking liver, kidney, heart, blood, lipids, Hgb A1c, etc. My job also pays me to check lipids and biometrics annually so I took their form also. Lipid results returned this morning.

The results are interesting. Fasting glucose is within range. Triglycerides and LDL are great. HDL increased from 33 to 37 which is still low but better. But total cholesterol dropped from 133 to 95. Apparently your total cholesterol can be too low but the experts are unsure what the consequences could be from LDL or total cholesterol being too low.

For reference I take 10mg Crestor and 10mg Zetia daily. I added Zetia 3-4 weeks ago to see if my HDL would increase.

Where I might have made a mistake is Sunday I completed a 7 day cycle of doxycycline, then had labs on Wednesday.

I looked up the impacts of antibiotics on lab work and this is what I learned.
1. Impacts to white blood cell count which was to be expected but I don’t have those results back yet.
2. Some antibiotics can reduce RBC.
3. Because many antibiotics are metabolized in the liver the liver function test, ALT and AST could be elevated.
4. Some antibiotics are hard on the kidney causing BUN and creatinine to be elevated.
5. I found a study that found that Doxycycline reduced liver cholesterol, increasing HDL but lowering total cholesterol. Also, “Glucose and insulin tolerances were improved, accompanying with reduced fasting blood glucose, insulin, HOMA-IR and advanced glycation end products.”

I might redo some of these labs in a few weeks. Most guidance I found was you should wait a few days after completing your antibiotics before getting lab work but didn’t state exactly how many days.

Here is an article discussing the impacts of doxycycline on cholesterol levels.

Low dose doxycycline decreases systemic inflammation and improves glycemic control, lipid profiles, and islet morphology and function in db/db mice - Scientific Reports

The aim of this study was to determine whether low dose doxycycline as an anti-inflammatory agent could improve glucose metabolism in diabetic animals. Therefore, doxycycline was supplemented in drinking water to 6-week-old male db/db mice for 10 weeks. Doxycycline reduced perirenal/epididymal...

www.nature.com

Partial results from my labs returned this morning. Some of my results are concerning. Some may have been impacted by the doxycycline, but I’m not certain they all are.

1. Creatinine is high - 1.28 (0.76-1.27). But BUN/Creatinine ratio is in range. Creatine supplements?
2. Potassium is still high. 5.5. In early December it was 5.7. Likely the Telmisartan but I who knows.
3. AST (SGOT) high. 55 (0-40). Early December it was 21. This might be the doxycycline.
4. ALT (SGPT) high. 67 (0-44). Early December it was 26. This also might be the doxycycline.
5. Creatine Kinase, Total high. 491 (41-331). This one has me a little worried. I’m wondering whether the recent grade 2 pulled groin could cause this. I don’t have any symptoms associated with heart or stroke. I’m contacting my Doc right now.
6. Cystatin C high. 1.17 (0.67-1.14) Doxycycline can cause this.
7. Uric Acid low. 2.6 (3.8-8.4). Who knows what this about.

It takes 5 days for doxycycline to clear out of the body. I’ll be redoing these labs.

 

[Anonymous35]

I mean, yeah. Considering the leading cause of death is ASCVD, yes I would say the body absolutely has a set point of cholesterol that is harmful for you.

As a pharm tech I feel like you'd know that statins are the most prescribed drug, right? Basically everyone is on a statin.

Not in france no at the hospital yes but its people with poor health so its different
But too low of statin will lower your well being thats for sure

 

[Anonymous35]

Pitavastatin is my favorite statin. No sides and no effect on my liver
My lipids checkup from this morning

Not even allowed in france lmao

 

[Anonymous35]

Not by my reasoning. It seems like you would induce hypobetalipoproteinemia and suffer all the same issues of malabsorption of nutrients, cognitive issues, etc. I'm going to encourage anyone interested in this topic of what happens when ApoB and LDL are too low, do a little reading on FHBL. There's some interesting data on the topic including how the condition informs interventions for hyperlipidemia.



You may think your comments are helpful, but they aren't making a lot of sense. It may be the language barrier. Yes, cognitive function is important and it may suffer at very low levels of ApoB.



This supports my point exactly. Nobody has ever gotten as jacked as many of the people on this forum without "medication". Doesn't make it bad or good, it just is.



Why yes, your body gonna need medication to live healthier, particularly if your body has any one of a number of common genetic variants that cause elevated lipids. Your presumption is that a perfect homeostasis is normal, but it isn't. Evolution gives zero fucks if humans live well past reproductive maturity, which is the point at which ASCVD progresses sufficiently to start killing them.



I wager that if everybody was on a statin, this graph would look different:

View attachment 311432



I'll explain to you that your arguments are weak and unsubstantiated and that you are doing more harm to your reputation than you are helping the community here. I trust that you have valuable information to share, so I'm going to ask you to spend a little more time consolidating your thoughts so that you can make more coherent posts.

Yes we get bigger but not healthier, that’s the point

my post are coherent, and I understand your point of view too
I just don’t think that everybody should be on statin
I don’t think you will feel quite good at low ldl in term of energy, memory, cognitive fonction…

I don’t think sacrifice the well being to live longer is in fact the best thing to do

If you want to maximise your health i would probably recommend you to stop abuse steroid before being so focus on just cholesterol
Probably doctors will be agree with my statement

 

[Anonymous35]

Yeah cancer is natural, why the body would create one. Cancer is great!

Its not it’s mutation genetic, so anomaly
Its « error » that appeared that’s it

Not the same as cholesterol that purely happened from the liver production so its intentional not cancer

 

[sushak]

My LDL is at usually about 110, should be below 100. I've got some overpriced rosuvastatin on its way. What would be your recommended starting dose? Was thinking 2.5 mg each morning and taking it from there....assuming I can split the pills.

 

[anon55]

Not even allowed in france lmao

Of course it is Lipizza and Trolise. Quite expansive however

 

[Sicsemptyran]

Yes we get bigger but not healthier, that’s the point

my post are coherent, and I understand your point of view too
I just don’t think that everybody should be on statin
I don’t think you will feel quite good at low ldl in term of energy, memory, cognitive fonction…

I don’t think sacrifice the well being to live longer is in fact the best thing to do

If you want to maximise your health i would probably recommend you to stop abuse steroid before being so focus on just cholesterol
Probably doctors will be agree with my statement

You're saying a lot of "I think" and extrapolating based on how you say the body needs cholesterol, etc.

But we don't need to guess. Again, this has been extensively studied. The vast majority of people have serum cholesterol levels that are too high and would benefit from getting those down, whether that be by a very low dose statin, ezetimibe, bempedoic acid, fiber, dietary changes, etc.

Heart disease that leads to narrowing of the blood vessels and calcifications which undoubtably do more to damage your mood/energy/etc and raise your risk of demetia/neurodegeneration/stroke/etc more than thoughtful lipid management ever would or taking your LDL from 120 -> 55. That's just a proven fact. How you feel about that is irrelevant, it's just a proven fact.

We've already pointed out that people who are very sick have low cholesterol oftentimes, but that is a result of the sickness, not the opposite way around. Just like many sick old women have very low creatinine, it's not a function of their kidneys being amazing, it's that they are so under muscled they just don't produce any. Two different things.

 

[Anonymous35]

My LDL is at usually about 110, should be below 100. I've got some overpriced rosuvastatin on its way. What would be your recommended starting dose? Was thinking 2.5 mg each morning and taking it from there....assuming I can split the pills.

I would say at between 70-100 is my personnal recommandation

 

[Anonymous35]

You're saying a lot of "I think" and extrapolating based on how you say the body needs cholesterol, etc.

But we don't need to guess. Again, this has been extensively studied. The vast majority of people have serum cholesterol levels that are too high and would benefit from getting those down, whether that be by a very low dose statin, ezetimibe, bempedoic acid, fiber, dietary changes, etc.

Heart disease that leads to narrowing of the blood vessels and calcifications which undoubtably do more to damage your mood/energy/etc and raise your risk of demetia/neurodegeneration/stroke/etc more than thoughtful lipid management ever would or taking your LDL from 120 -> 55. That's just a proven fact. How you feel about that is irrelevant, it's just a proven fact.

We've already pointed out that people who are very sick have low cholesterol oftentimes, but that is a result of the sickness, not the opposite way around. Just like many sick old women have very low creatinine, it's not a function of their kidneys being amazing, it's that they are so under muscled they just don't produce any. Two different things.

I wasn’t talking about high cholestérol but cholestérol around 100
Wanted them to be even lower is useless in most case

I don’t feel anything, i just think, you should tried it before one day before just absorbe the results from a studie

same with the glp1, it not because people on those studies loses muscle at the end, that glp1 cause muscle losse , correlation doesn’t mean cosation
And cholesterol isn’t the only factor in heart issues? Is just one of them
Buy the way those people with a strong dose of statin had a shit tone of other treatment
Kardegic, eliquis, ezetimibe, irbesartan , bisoprolol….furosemide some times forxiga…

Its not only one thing, but if you want to be a walking polypharmacie thats on you

 

[Alibabaa]

Statins are very dangerous and are often prescribed by doctors. They are sometimes the most unnecessary medication in the world.

there is a well-known one doctor who is also an author: Prof. Dr. med. Walter Hartenbach

the book is called: Die Cholesterin-Lüge
(Engl: The lie about Cholesterol)

It is a German book but there is certainly also a translation into English. This book shows how unnecessary and deadly statins are and how important cholesterol is for the body.

Read it

 

[BamaCrazy]

Statins are very dangerous and are often prescribed by doctors. They are sometimes the most unnecessary medication in the world.

there is a well-known one doctor who is also an author: Prof. Dr. med. Walter Hartenbach

the book is called: Die Cholesterin-Lüge
(Engl: The lie about Cholesterol)

It is a German book but there is certainly also a translation into English. This book shows how unnecessary and deadly statins are and how important cholesterol is for the body.

Read it

Here we go again.

 

[BamaCrazy]

My LDL is at usually about 110, should be below 100. I've got some overpriced rosuvastatin on its way. What would be your recommended starting dose? Was thinking 2.5 mg each morning and taking it from there....assuming I can split the pills.

10mg daily I think is the usual starting dose and that’s been very effective for me

 

[Anonymous35]

10mg daily I think is the usual starting dose and that’s been very effective for me

10mg of rosuvastatin isn’t the starting dose
It’s 5mg
10mg is for atorvastatin

 

[egruberman]

my post are coherent

Not entirely.

I just don’t think that everybody should be on statin

You're arguing against something that wasn't stated. I don't think that everybody should be on a statin. Most of the folks here, particularly in this thread are middle aged mean on AAS with varying degrees of lipid issues. Those folks definitely need to be on a statin. Given the increasing number of people dying from ASCVD every year, it's a straightforward argument to be made that more people should be, presuming we except the extensive research that shows improved outcomes from statin use.

I don’t think you will feel quite good at low ldl in term of energy, memory, cognitive fonction…

So, you have a misguided notion that I won't feel quite good with low LDL and no means to support that. Lacking any plausible explanation for why you believe that, perhaps you should simply keep it to yourself. Consider the risk of being wrong. If I'm wrong and people manage their lipids too low, what happens? They have difficulty absorbing nutrients and experience a few other symptoms that are easily reversible by backing off the treatment. If you're wrong, people die.

In any case, I feel great. I am the healthiest 52yo that I know. I'm typically stronger and fitter than anyone of any age that I encounter in the gym.... Well, the weightlifting gym. There's some folks in the climbing gym that are like whoa.

I don’t think sacrifice the well being to live longer is in fact the best thing to do

For one, that's a personal decision and for two you have no grasp on the probabilities of what either course of action entails.

If you want to maximise your health i would probably recommend you to stop abuse steroid before being so focus on just cholesterol
Probably doctors will be agree with my statement

Probably doctors agree with my statement? I give approximately zero fucks what doctors think. There's a whole group of doctors that comprise the American College of Cardiologists for whom I already argued at length with supporting evidence why they are misguided. You think I give two shits what any random doctor thinks?

My LDL is at usually about 110, should be below 100. I've got some overpriced rosuvastatin on its way. What would be your recommended starting dose? Was thinking 2.5 mg each morning and taking it from there....assuming I can split the pills.

I'd aim for a bit lower than 100mg/dL, probably starting at 5mg/day which should yield a ~40% reduction in LDL. Presuming your ApoB tracks similarly, this will get you under 80mg/dL, the level below which Tom Dayspring recommends for folks with no other risk factors.

I don’t feel anything, i just think, you should tried it before one day before just absorbe the results from a studie

What the fuck are you even on about here? I should not use the best available literature to support my position, but rather I should rely on deduction?

And cholesterol isn’t the only factor in heart issues? Is just one of them

ApoB is causal and necessary for the progression of ASCVD.

Its not only one thing, but if you want to be a walking polypharmacie thats on you

Yes, it's working quite well for me and I have plenty of actual evidence to support my opinion that it would work for others.

Statins are very dangerous and are often prescribed by doctors. They are sometimes the most unnecessary medication in the world.

there is a well-known one doctor who is also an author: Prof. Dr. med. Walter Hartenbach

the book is called: Die Cholesterin-Lüge
(Engl: The lie about Cholesterol)

It is a German book but there is certainly also a translation into English. This book shows how unnecessary and deadly statins are and how important cholesterol is for the body.

Read it

You need to fuck right off with that anti-science bullshit. I don't want to have to waste my time debunking misinformation.