Who SHOULDN'T take slin?

[Deleted member 123722]

A few years ago, I had to get off everyone in order to get my wife pregnant via IVF; I thought it was her, but turns out years of TRT shut me down to the point I had no sperm (and yes I threw NPP on that lol). Anyway, while I was off, I tried to use whatever non-steroid substance so I could to maintain something, but it just didn't work. I even messed with Slin for the first time, but I didn't have any access to fast-acting, so I got the kind Walmart which is medium release. I basically got fat as fuck, even though I tried timing it and everything, which is very hard with that kind.

I later ran into a video by Dave Palumbo, and he basically said that not everyone should be using slin, especially if its someone with the metabolism who doesn't need it—someone who can gain fat easily. I can easily gain and lose fat, same with muscles. Seems to me, those who really benefit from slin are those skinny guys who are hard gainers. (Palumbo was one as a kid) who take that with Gh and explode.

However, I have ben taking GH for nearly 7 months, and I keep reading about insulin sensitivity; moreover, that GH really does its job when you take it with slin. But ever since what Dave said, and getting fat off of it, I never tried it again.

What are you thoughts on this? From what I understand, not every pro uses slins either; in fact, many have said the gains are not quality muscle (Dorian)

 

[canadian mutant]

Anyone running insulin for anabolic purposes has serious issues.

 

[Deleted member 123722]

Anyone running insulin for anabolic purposes has serious issues.

well apparently, many do.

 

[Type-IIx]

Anyone who does intend to shave many years off their lifespan should avoid slin (for muscle protein anabolism purposes). The notion that slin is needed to counteract GH's insulin resistance is seriously misguided. For pros that UNDERSTAND and accept the risk, want to become monsters, that's one thing. Now it seems to be making its way down to the average rec bodybuilder.

Yes, a primary effect of GH is insulin resistance and promotion of lipid mobilization and oxidation as a means of switching substrate utilization from glucose and protein to lipid oxidation.

This doesn't mean rhGH makes you gain fat nor ruins skeletal muscle anabolism.

Now I can literally picture a guy retaining fluid and potassium, calcium, nitrogen, greater extracellular volume thinking he's getting fat. Don't be this guy that thinks you need exogenous insulin to lose fat....

one of insulin's primary effects is reduction of fat oxidation FFS.

It's just that people seem to be working with a completely simplified model of cell metabolism and insulin resistance, completely missing the research on insulin toxicity.

 

[Forthewin1123]

So insulin isn't the most anabolic substance known to.man? I didn't think insulin was used with gh to fight resistance.. but instead to force nutrient to the muscle for maximum growth and recovery? Am I completely wrong?, why its used commonly pre and.post work out.. a few days a week.. 3-4 ..

 

[Type-IIx]

So insulin isn't the most anabolic substance known to.man? I didn't think insulin was used with gh to fight resistance.. but instead to force nutrient to the muscle for maximum growth and recovery? Am I completely wrong?, why its used commonly pre and.post work out.. a few days a week.. 3-4 ..

No, you're also correct. It can and will make you grow enormously at a cost. The 3-4x weekly is probably to minimize the reduced fat oxidation more than dealing with desensitization of signaling. Do you suppose 3-4x weekly means it's risk free?

 

[Deleted member 123722]

Anyone who does intend to shave many years off their lifespan should avoid slin (for muscle protein anabolism purposes). The notion that slin is needed to counteract GH's insulin resistance is seriously misguided. For pros that UNDERSTAND and accept the risk, want to become monsters, that's one thing. Now it seems to be making its way down to the average rec bodybuilder.

Yes, a primary effect of GH is insulin resistance and promotion of lipid mobilization and oxidation as a means of switching substrate utilization from glucose and protein to lipid oxidation.

This doesn't mean rhGH makes you gain fat nor ruins skeletal muscle anabolism.

Now I can literally picture a guy retaining fluid and potassium, calcium, nitrogen, greater extracellular volume thinking he's getting fat. Don't be this guy that thinks you need exogenous insulin to lose fat....

one of insulin's primary effects is reduction of fat oxidation FFS.

It's just that people seem to be working with a completely simplified model of cell metabolism and insulin resistance, completely missing the research on insulin toxicity.

Why does slin remove years of their life?

 

[Jestopherson]

Why does slin remove years of their life?

Likely the IGF1 increase I assume

 

[Type-IIx]

Why does slin remove years of their life?

Greatly increases cardiovascular risk and there are extremely strong inverse correlations between basal insulin and lifespan. I recommend everyone read this paper:

Herman, M. E., O’Keefe, J. H., Bell, D. S. H., & Schwartz, S. S. (2017). Insulin Therapy Increases Cardiovascular Risk in Type 2 Diabetes. Progress in Cardiovascular Diseases, 60(3), 422–434. doi:10.1016/j.pcad.2017.09.001

Before the handwaving of "in T2D!" understanding the mechanisms, which I know just bores people, and the constraints on good studies in the bodybuilding population, do believe, there is reason to believe slin has an unfavorable risk-reward for most persons.

When used in combination with AAS and some other stuff, there are additional mechanisms that likely act in concert to increase morbidity risks (elevated triglycerides, endothelial dysfunction, etc.)

 

[Deleted member 123722]

well, bbers are dropping like flies lately, and i'm sure the slin use didnt' help...

 

[Type-IIx]

The GLP-1 agonists like Ozempic are the future. Metformin is good, just not quite AS good.

 

[lilhawk]

Why not just use Metformin to combat the insulin resistance from GH? Ozempic looks like it works well, but I think cost is pretty high. Metformin is literally like $4 for 3 months worth with insurance and has a lot of health benefits.

 

[Type-IIx]

Why not just use Metformin to combat the insulin resistance from GH? Ozempic looks like it works well, but I think cost is pretty high. Metformin is literally like $4 for 3 months worth with insurance and has a lot of health benefits.

GLP-1 agonists would seem to have greater specificity and not impact strength as much as Met. I like Met when it makes sense (with rhGH, as it increases IGF-I, increases glucose transport, decreases systemic glucose... just don't expect to make great gains in strength). GLP-1 agonists would seem to mostly blunt appetite as a side-effect, which can have its own host of consequences, but can similarly be used for cutting. I just think they're different tools in the toolbox.

 

[M@NU]

GLP-1 agonists would seem to have greater specificity and not impact strength as much as Met. I like Met when it makes sense (with rhGH, as it increases IGF-I, increases glucose transport, decreases systemic glucose... just don't expect to make great gains in strength). GLP-1 agonists would seem to mostly blunt appetite as a side-effect, which can have its own host of consequences, but can similarly be used for cutting. I just think they're different tools in the toolbox.

also ozempic has a host of cardiac benefits according to newer studies.
I am sure those GLP-1A are the next in-line medicine that get approved for heart failure / heart insufficiency (i would like it since i have it). Same with the SLGT-2 agonists where in the EU, 2 are approved for heart failure right now (i will try to get jardiance prescribed next week @ my cardiologist appointment since ive read tons of benefits)

 

[Forthewin1123]

No, you're also correct. It can and will make you grow enormously at a cost. The 3-4x weekly is probably to minimize the reduced fat oxidation more than dealing with desensitization of signaling. Do you suppose 3-4x weekly means it's risk free?

No nothing in body building or aas is risk free or cost free.. also professional body building even just guys like me who do it as a extreme hobby..as a whole is a very unhealthy sport/hobby..this shit is not healthy at all

 

[Tmisatix]

GLP-1 agonists would seem to have greater specificity and not impact strength as much as Met. I like Met when it makes sense (with rhGH, as it increases IGF-I, increases glucose transport, decreases systemic glucose... just don't expect to make great gains in strength). GLP-1 agonists would seem to mostly blunt appetite as a side-effect, which can have its own host of consequences, but can similarly be used for cutting. I just think they're different tools in the toolbox.

How about sglt-2 inhibitors?

 

[Type-IIx]

How about sglt-2 inhibitors?

Well, the GLP-1 agonists increase posprandial insulin secretion, decrease glucagon, increase satiety; may increase intramuscular Ca²⁺; bind albumin and may free up circulating free androgens; and exert an antiinflammatory effect... all good for bodybuilding. The SGLT-2 inhibitors merely increase glucose excretion. At least, with the latter, that's what's been established. There may indeed be more great things to be learned about their mechanisms.

 

[M@NU]

Well, the GLP-1 agonists increase posprandial insulin secretion, decrease glucagon, increase satiety; may increase intramuscular Ca²⁺; bind albumin and may free up circulating free androgens; and exert an antiinflammatory effect... all good for bodybuilding. The SGLT-2 inhibitors merely increase glucose excretion. At least, with the latter, that's what's been established. There may indeed be more great things to be learned about their mechanisms.

there seems to be other mechanisms too for SLGT-2.
Cardiologists are still unsure why e.g. Jardiance improves heart insufficiency.
the mild diuretic effect (glucose excretion) doesnt explain everything. They assume there are also some other pathways

 

[Tmisatix]

there seems to be other mechanisms too for SLGT-2.
Cardiologists are still unsure why e.g. Jardiance improves heart insufficiency.
the mild diuretic effect (glucose excretion) doesnt explain everything. They assume there are also some other pathways

Also improves kidney function

IMO , sglt 2 inhibitors could solve the diuretic issue we have in bodybuilding . They prevent carb spill over through the mechanism of urinating excess glucose while also producing a diuretic effect. All of this, Yet they’re still kidney protective . Hopefully more sources start to carry them. It also is more effective for weight reduction compared to metformin.

there is one possible detrimental side effect and that’s a urinary tract infection . Guess you can compare that with the detrimental side effects of diuretics and some fat burners lol

 

[HRDBODY]

well apparently, many do.

Yes it's True insulin has no Anabolic purpose . It's real and only reason body builder's use it while on HGH is to give the Pancreas a break when running high doses of gh . When you take a dose of 6iu or more everyday for a long period you can become insulin resistant.
But anyone using Insulin while not on gh is only going to experience fat gain and a lot of water retention .
The fast acting slin is the only one your going to ever want to use . I would inject 8 iu immediately after my work out and immediately consume my after workout shake and meal so the insulin would help my body absorb that protein to the muscles I worked .
I'm not an expert on the matter but from my experience this is what I've gathered on what and what not to do .