MESO-Rx

Anabolic Steroids

Winter Mass Gain

Wunderpus said:
Lot's to talk about in your post....

"Not sure what about this is considered “extreme” from the comment above but ~1800mg for 6’+ 240 is pretty laid back. Should be a drama free 8-10 dry lbs by cycle’s end"

- I feel this way, as well, especially considering the compounds used. Primo is arguably the mildest injectable AAS and requires a fair bit more mg's/cycle to reap the benefits. You'd be wasting your time, and oil, if you went too low (same with EQ IME).

"I am the same in the arm department; feel they’re always behind. One comment I have there is if yours are actually behind I doubt simply training hard elsewhere spurs significant growth. Phil Heath and Roelly got lucky like that; I know I didn’t. Also something I’ve contemplated: if you’re GOOD at targeting a muscle, say your lats in a row or chest in a press, then I have a theory that your arms just don’t get suitable stimulation there. Just a thought. For that reason I’m adding a dedicated arm day, mostly higher volume pump work aside from maybe one movement per side, at the end (pull/push/legs/arms)."

I would suggest and "arm" blast period. We do this with some of our clients, with great success. Do 4 or so weeks of arm training 3x a week. Not 3 arm days, but something like a dedicated arm day, then triceps after shoulders + chest, and biceps after back. So, you're hitting both groups 2x a week, once pre-exhausted.


"The volume vs TRUE failure is a huge piece of the puzzle missing today. Everyone’s on this low volume, progressive overload kick but I don’t see anyone training to their absolute limit. I don’t have a training partner so I don’t fool myself into thinking I’m reaching absolute failure on a lot of movements."

I've trained with a lot of people, a ton... And watched thousands others train. Rarely do I see someone train to absolute muscular failure. It took me a long time to know how that feels, and what it takes to push thru that. I would encourage everyone learns this feeling. Start with machines, then go to dumbbells, and maybe bars far down the road. Be safe and smart.

Given your experience with diets, will be interested to see how your macros change as you add cals. This is the piece everyone fucking misses and asks why the drugs aren’t working...

Macros will likely change as I grow, and cardio will probably go up, as well. I find I grow best with some decent cardio (20-30 minutes LISS) a few times a week. It's bullshit that "cardio burns muscle". Maybe if you were going crazy, but not when done in a reasonable way. It keeps metabolism up, allows you to train harder and longer, plus it's just healthy.
Click to expand...
Do you think 30-40 mintues of purfusly high energy sex is good enough cardio?
 
*Updates*

Okay, sorry for the shitty update count guys, it is what it is... Anyway, there hasn't been much progress as I've been swamped with work and traveling. With that, I put on a BIT more soft weight than I'm happy to have rolling into a lean mass gaining phase. So, I'm going to do a 3-4 week "mini" cut, then hop into an 8 week HEAVY mass gaining phase...

For the "mini" cut I'll be doing:

350 test (may bump to 500, we'll see how I feel)
500 tren ace
500 mast. p.
25mcg's T3
75 mcg's T4
2iu GH (AM fasted)

Training will still be "heavy", as I don't want to lose much strength during this period. IDK why folks switch to light weights during their "cut" phases, never made sense to me.
 
Mac11wildcat said:
Old bro science. Lack of nutsack. Couple options lol. Pick up the pace of the workout sure, bit no one ever grew from making training easier.
Click to expand...
I agree. I see a lot of "pumping" now, and less heavy lifting. THey look good in the gym, then flatten out immediately after. The muscle density isn't the same if you lift light weight for high reps, it's just not.
 
Mac11wildcat said:
Old bro science. Lack of nutsack. Couple options lol. Pick up the pace of the workout sure, bit no one ever grew from making training easier.
Click to expand...
I think the most accurate answer to that question would be “because they don’t know what the fuck they’re doing”.
 
Wunderpus said:
*Updates*

Okay, sorry for the shitty update count guys, it is what it is... Anyway, there hasn't been much progress as I've been swamped with work and traveling. With that, I put on a BIT more soft weight than I'm happy to have rolling into a lean mass gaining phase. So, I'm going to do a 3-4 week "mini" cut, then hop into an 8 week HEAVY mass gaining phase...

For the "mini" cut I'll be doing:

350 test (may bump to 500, we'll see how I feel)
500 tren ace
500 mast. p.
25mcg's T3
75 mcg's T4
2iu GH (AM fasted)

Training will still be "heavy", as I don't want to lose much strength during this period. IDK why folks switch to light weights during their "cut" phases, never made sense to me.
Click to expand...
May I ask why the t4? If I remember well I saw it on your mass gain phase post from before aswell. Do you have some kind of t4 deficiency?
 
Jankauskas said:
May I ask why the t4? If I remember well I saw it on your mass gain phase post from before aswell. Do you have some kind of t4 deficiency?
Click to expand...
No, I was using it with the hGH in the beginning as exo. GH temporarily lowers T4 levels. For this, I am using it for it's metabolism boosting effects in conjunction with the T3. I find using both is less harsh and more stable than higher T3 alone.
 
Wunderpus said:
No, I was using it with the hGH in the beginning as exo. GH temporarily lowers T4 levels. For this, I am using it for it's metabolism boosting effects in conjunction with the T3. I find using both is less harsh and more stable than higher T3 alone.
Click to expand...

What is the best way to implement thyroid drugs during a cut to cause less damage to thyroid production? There’s talk that it can create more fat gain once the meds are taken away, that it can sometimes shut down thyroid production drastically, etc.
 
TheH0517 said:
What is the best way to implement thyroid drugs during a cut to cause less damage to thyroid production? There’s talk that it can create more fat gain once the meds are taken away, that it can sometimes shut down thyroid production drastically, etc.
Click to expand...
I would taper it down as you're coming off if you're using more than 25mc'gs/day. However, I think more than 50mcg's/day is silly and counterproductive. I wouldn't worry TOO much about rebound if your diet is in check and you don't have any pre-existing thyroid issues.

Talk about "more fat gain" is relevant to all rapid fat loss. We know fat comes back on faster if the initial fat loss is very fast. The use of T3 certainly can expedite that. I'm not sure it's the T3 causing that directly via the thyroid.... More likely it's just the rapid fat loss as a whole causing a "rebound".
 
Wunderpus said:
I would taper it down as you're coming off if you're using more than 25mc'gs/day. However, I think more than 50mcg's/day is silly and counterproductive. I wouldn't worry TOO much about rebound if your diet is in check and you don't have any pre-existing thyroid issues.

Talk about "more fat gain" is relevant to all rapid fat loss. We know fat comes back on faster if the initial fat loss is very fast. The use of T3 certainly can expedite that. I'm not sure it's the T3 causing that directly via the thyroid.... More likely it's just the rapid fat loss as a whole causing a "rebound".
Click to expand...

Do you have a maximum usage window you like to keep the thyroids meds under? For instance, no longer than 4 weeks (just an example)?
 
TheH0517 said:
Do you have a maximum usage window you like to keep the thyroids meds under? For instance, no longer than 4 weeks (just an example)?
Click to expand...
I think 4 weeks would be a good timeframe. It's somewhat dose related and also where the user is at in terms of their health, goals, etc. But, lower thyroid med usage can be used longer than that... I know of many people who run it every cycle....
 
Wunderpus said:
I think 4 weeks would be a good timeframe. It's somewhat dose related and also where the user is at in terms of their health, goals, etc. But, lower thyroid med usage can be used longer than that... I know of many people who run it every cycle....
Click to expand...

Good to know, thinking about using it at the end of my next cutting cycle. Thanks man.
 
Wunderpus said:
No, I was using it with the hGH in the beginning as exo. GH temporarily lowers T4 levels. For this, I am using it for it's metabolism boosting effects in conjunction with the T3. I find using both is less harsh and more stable than higher T3 alone.
Click to expand...
I used 125mcg/day for 4 months my last hgh run tapering up to dosage and tapering of the dosage. Do you always use 75mcg/day and would you recommend that over 125mcg/day? The studies I’ve read show that t4 levels slowly decline over the first six months to year of exogenous hgh. I’m thinking about trying lower dosage this time although I will be on hgh for longer
 
Weights said:
I used 125mcg/day for 4 months my last hgh run tapering up to dosage and tapering of the dosage. Do you always use 75mcg/day and would you recommend that over 125mcg/day? The studies I’ve read show that t4 levels slowly decline over the first six months to year of exogenous hgh. I’m thinking about trying lower dosage this time although I will be on hgh for longer
Click to expand...
I'd use 150mcg's if I wasn't using the T3, as well :)
 
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