Slicin' and Dicin' into the summer

[ChestRockwell]

45 minutes pre workout: Pin Humulin R (@ChestRockwell mentioned his liking of Humulin R to me pre workout... I've never used it, but it seems like common fucking sense once you think about it... You get your insulin drip during, and after, your workout. Duh! This is WAY easier to track, for me at least, than Humalog pre and post...)

Yessir! When not using Lantus, R-type insulin can be a nice substitute for peri-workout periods...

 

[Wunderpus]

Yessir! When not using Lantus, R-type insulin can be a nice substitute for peri-workout periods...

I have a lantus pen... What kind of protocol would you use for it? I haven't touched the thing... It was sent to me as a gift in an order.

 

[ChestRockwell]

I have a lantus pen... What kind of protocol would you use for it? I haven't touched the thing... It was sent to me as a gift in an order.

Lantus takes a lot of the guess work out of timing your insulin. Due to its hormonal profile, a single AM dose is all that is required (normally 20-50IUs depending upon experience).

Some prefer to do 2/3 AM and 1/3 PM injection, but I don't subscribe to this myself.

With Lantus as your baseline, you can largely just resort to LOG-type injections with meals at that point, again depending upon experience levels.

 

[Wunderpus]

Lantus takes a lot of the guess work out of timing your insulin. Due to its hormonal profile, a single AM dose is all that is required (normally 20-50IUs depending upon experience).

Some prefer to do 2/3 AM and 1/3 PM injection, but I don't subscribe to this myself.

With Lantus as your baseline, you can largely just resort to LOG-type injections with meals at that point, again depending upon experience levels.

Okay, but how do I time carbs? I assume ~10g/iu rule?

 

[ChestRockwell]

Okay, but how do I time carbs? I assume ~10g/iu rule?

Not required as there is no wave with Lantus. Some do report a wave around the 2-4 hour mark, but there is not going to be the same mindset as there is with LOG-type and R-type insulin types.

For LOG, a 10g per IU rule is a decent starting point for someone with high insulin sensitivity however the required amount will decrease as sensitivity decreases over time.

 

[gr8whitetrukker]

Lantus takes a lot of the guess work out of timing your insulin. Due to its hormonal profile, a single AM dose is all that is required (normally 20-50IUs depending upon experience).

Some prefer to do 2/3 AM and 1/3 PM injection, but I don't subscribe to this myself.

With Lantus as your baseline, you can largely just resort to LOG-type injections with meals at that point, again depending upon experience levels.

Sounds like Lantus could permanently take over his own insulin secretion?

 

[ChestRockwell]

Sounds like Lantus could permanently take over his own insulin secretion?

It produces an exogenous source of insulin for 24-28 hours, yes. During that time, endogenous secretion will be all but suppressed, depending on the dose administered.

But remember that Lantus has an extremely high affinity to IGF receptors, significantly higher than endogenous insulin.

 

[Wunderpus]

It produces an exogenous source of insulin for 24-28 hours, yes. During that time, endogenous secretion will be all but suppressed, depending on the dose administered.

But remember that Lantus has an extremely high affinity to IGF receptors, significantly higher than endogenous insulin.

So, hmm, this is interesting... What do you think of this:

Wake
Fasted cardio/ECA/1st GH pin
Pin lantus and eat breakfast
Snack
Lunch
Snack
Pin GH 1 hour pre workout
Pin humulin R and take appropriate amount of carbs 45 minutes pre workout
Workout - intra workout carb/protein drink
Post workout carb/protein drink
Dinner
Pin 3rd GH
Sleep

Or, do you think Humalog pre or post workout is better? This is all interesting to me... My issue IS that I train about 5 hours pre bed... So, Log and Lin are fine, but I worry about the Lantus creeping over into the night and going hypo. Concern?

 

[Eman]

Sounds like Lantus could permanently take over his own insulin secretion?

This is exactly why I didn't want to move forward with it. Tempting but not worth it to me...

 

[gr8whitetrukker]

I worry about the Lantus creeping over into the night and going hypo. Concern?

This

 

[ChestRockwell]

but I worry about the Lantus creeping over into the night and going hypo. Concern?

This

Nope, remember that this was developed specifically for diabetic subjects and it has been thoroughly tested in dozens of trials using doses much higher than most bodybuilder types will run.

To get this onto market, the FDA mandates safety so if this was a concern it never would have been approved.

So, hmm, this is interesting... What do you think of this:

It could work just fine, but you could also simplify a bit and get rid of the R-type since this would be more of a concern being so "close" to bedtime.

Start off with nothing more than Lantus for a week, assess.

Add a single LOG dose with post-workout meal for a week, assess. Rinse and repeat...don't throw too many variables into the equation at once

 

[Sworder]

insulin is shit and gives you a big gut, let the pros use it imho.

 

[ChestRockwell]

insulin is shit and gives you a big gut, let the pros use it imho.

Have you used insulin before?

 

[Sworder]

Have you used insulin before?

Yes otherwise I wouldn't have commented on it...

 

[ChestRockwell]

Yes otherwise I wouldn't have commented on it...

How much abdominal growth did you get from it and what were your usage protocols?

 

[Sworder]

How much abdominal growth did you get from it and what were your usage protocols?

I didn't measure the abdominal growth but my innie became an outie and generally I saw a noticeable difference in my gut size. Insulin and hgh is the difference between the new body builders and the old school. If you could get to the pro level with using steroids alone, wouldn't you prefer having a smaller gut?
There is too much focus on drugs for some people and not enough diet, working out and TIME.
Insulin and hgh has ruined many physiques

 

[Wunderpus]

How much abdominal growth did you get from it and what were your usage protocols?

Abdominal growth? None that I have noticed at all, and no one has ever commented on it, either....

I have used many, many, different protocols... From Mutant's, to John Meadows, Bostin Loyds etc...

 

[ChestRockwell]

Insulin and hgh has ruined many physiques

I think, as with many things, we should delineate usage from abuse. Using GH and insulin presents a low risk of abdominal distention when otherwise not predisposed.

In fact, GH actually has a high affinity for visceral fat, which is counter intuitive to producing abdominal distention. However, when consistently exaggerated levels exist (such as those seen in acromegaly), bone and soft tissue enlargement (including intestinal enlargement) is common.

Much like @Wunderpus said, there has been no abdominal growth in myself or anyone I've worked with who is using these compounds. It is just a matter of understanding how to utilize them and not abuse them...

 

[Sworder]

I think, as with many things, we should delineate usage from abuse.

Go ahead! Differentiate use from abuse!?

Using GH and insulin presents a low risk of abdominal distention when otherwise not predisposed.

Low risk

In fact, GH actually has a high affinity for visceral fat, which is counter intuitive to producing abdominal distention.

No risk..

First you say low risk, then no risk.

Either way I am a big fan of the words "dose-dependent..." I firmly believe that at a lower dosage you will see a smaller effect and higher dosage a higher effect. It's mainly the distention, as you can see the bodybuilders on stage have almost no fat SubQ and it appears to be more distention than AVF.

To clarify, the modern bodybuilders are abusing insulin and hGH and that is leading to the distention. "Appropriate use" will not. But then I ask you, what is the point of using these compounds when you can achieve the physique with AAS alone, GH at 2 ius I do believe can be ran with many benefits. But that's not for a bodybuilding per se.

For the record Wunderpus is a gear maniac, he tries pushing as much as he can into his body to get results rather than take his time and get there. I think he is rather young, slowing down and proper cycling should get most people to wherever they want to be without posing risks of any funny tummy business.

 

[ChestRockwell]

I'm actually not interested in a mental masturbation style semantics debate, because like yourself I'm fundamentally on the side of the debate that the look of modern bodybuilders is appalling.

However, it isn't only top level bodybuilders that use high amounts of GH and insulin, it is widespread even in divisions where midsections must remain tight (such as men's physique and EU classic divisions). So using unilateral language to describe a compound(s) is somewhat irresponsible, even if just trying to make an appeal to dramatics.

insulin is shit and gives you a big gut