So I just got back from the cardiologist's office

[Jankauskas]

The guy said everything (echo, ecg, holter, stress test) was normal, but my heart was, while not enlarged, "bigger than average" and that it could be " caused by training and taking steroids" and that I should stop taking (ofc). I asked him again about it, he basically assured me it was not enlarged but to watch it in the future.

It isnt clear to me if he meant this is normal for someone that exercises but was purposely ambiguous for scare tactics, but the way that I see it it was.

I only did 4 cycles, 2 of them were test only, and never abused dosages, neither did stims except for caffeine, so i think its hard to believe gear caused it, it its a normal thing brought on by exercise.

What do you guus think?

 

[EcpertRealistic]

The guy said everything (echo, ecg, holter, stress test) was normal, but my heart was, while not enlarged, "bigger than average" and that it could be " caused by training and taking steroids" and that I should stop taking (ofc). I asked him again about it, he basically assured me it was not enlarged but to watch it in the future.

It isnt clear to me if he meant this is normal for someone that exercises but was purposely ambiguous for scare tactics, but the way that I see it it was.

I only did 4 cycles, 2 of them were test only, and never abused dosages, neither did stims except for caffeine, so i think its hard to believe gear caused it, it its a normal thing brought on by exercise.

What do you guus think?

If you ran more than 250mg test per week YOU DID abused dosages

Bunch of fat idiots here with gyno advicing everyone that is ok to run 500mg test/ week. IT'S NOT

 

[Wunderpus]

The guy said everything (echo, ecg, holter, stress test) was normal, but my heart was, while not enlarged, "bigger than average" and that it could be " caused by training and taking steroids" and that I should stop taking (ofc). I asked him again about it, he basically assured me it was not enlarged but to watch it in the future.

It isnt clear to me if he meant this is normal for someone that exercises but was purposely ambiguous for scare tactics, but the way that I see it it was.

I only did 4 cycles, 2 of them were test only, and never abused dosages, neither did stims except for caffeine, so i think its hard to believe gear caused it, it its a normal thing brought on by exercise.

What do you guus think?

Heart = muscle... Working out works that muscle, almost certainly enlarging it.

@Dr JIM can you help this guy out a bit more? Obviously he understands there's risk here, but HOW much risk?

 

[Wunderpus]

If you ran more than 250mg test per week YOU DID abused dosages

Shut up. Your parents probably abused you, or should have.

 

[Kinetic]

Heart = muscle... Working out works that muscle, almost certainly enlarging it.

@Dr JIM can you help this guy out a bit more? Obviously he understands there's risk here, but HOW much risk?

This. No matter what kind of exercise you are into, the heart will always work harder to push blood into muscle during. If your heart tests came back normal, I'd continue with the route you're on.

What made you decide to get your heart checked to begin with? If you have preexisting conditions, I'd be cautious but not overly paranoid.

 

[Jankauskas]

This. No matter what kind of exercise you are into, the heart will always work harder to push blood into muscle during. If your heart tests came back normal, I'd continue with the route you're on.

What made you decide to get your heart checked to begin with? If you have preexisting conditions, I'd be cautious but not overly paranoid.

I agree with you guys, i think its normal for an athlete's heart to be enlarged, even without gear. This is based on my knowlege but I am no doctor though.

I went to get checked because of palpitations, I had them even before gear, they come and go. I think its stress/depression related, and I hit a rough patch lately....
The doctor said they were caught on the holter, but it turns out I have even less than the average people, I just feel them more...

 

[Wunderpus]

Be safe, man. Good on you for doing the right thing and getting a check up, I know it's scary.... My doc makes me do an EKG 1x a year as part of my TRT program, and I am always scared lol... Luckily never had an issue!

 

[Jankauskas]

Be safe, man. Good on you for doing the right thing and getting a check up, I know it's scary.... My doc makes me do an EKG 1x a year as part of my TRT program, and I am always scared lol... Luckily never had an issue!

When Im feeling off I dont chance it, the weird thing is that 2 doctors saw my exams before and said my heart was fine and it wasnt enlarged, and this guy said that"in a scale of 1 to 10, where 11 is enlarged, you are a 9, not like a 4 or 5, like a normal person".

I think that by normal person he meant people who dont train, the problem with these doctors is that they are not used to deal with athletes, so they evaluate everyone by the same parameters (non-athletes).

I had done a full battery of exams 4 years ago to my heart and all was well, I doubt that in 1,5 years of mild gear it would grow too much.

 

[Kinetic]

I agree with you guys, i think its normal for an athlete's heart to be enlarged, even without gear. This is based on my knowlege but I am no doctor though.

I went to get checked because of palpitations, I had them even before gear, they come and go. I think its stress/depression related, and I hit a rough patch lately....
The doctor said they were caught on the holter, but it turns out I have even less than the average people, I just feel them more...

I know the feeling. I've had random palpitations for a few years and had all the same tests done. All normal. Tried beta blockers for a little while but feel that it's been better controlled with Omega 3's and ubiquinol.

 

[Jankauskas]

I know the feeling. I've had random palpitations for a few years and had all the same tests done. All normal. Tried beta blockers for a little while but feel that it's been better controlled with Omega 3's and ubiquinol.

Started omega 3 last month. Do you megadose it?

 

[Kinetic]

Started omega 3 last month. Do you megadose it?

Nah, I just supplement about 2 grams (krill) daily on top of what I get in my diet. I've tried bigger doses any didn't notice much effect besides a lighter wallet. Palpitations are few and far between and my triglycerides have improved so I'll stick to it.

 

[Dr JIM]

Heart = muscle... Working out works that muscle, almost certainly enlarging it.

@Dr JIM can you help this guy out a bit more? Obviously he understands there's risk here, but HOW much risk?

IMO the AAS C-V risk is best quantified in one word ---- CUMULATIVE!

 

[Jankauskas]

IMO the AAS C-V risk is best quantified in one word ---- CUMULATIVE!

Obviously, it doesnt happen overnight.
There is only such ammount of punishment the human body can withstand, and even though the blows wont kill you they hurt...
This lifestyle of ours is the most absolute example of a deal with the devil, you get a lot out of it (if you know what you are doing), but you have to leave early in return...

This is something I have accepted, and the people who havent, honestly should not do it.

 

[Dr JIM]

I

1) if you ran more than 250mg test per week YOU DID abused dosages

2) Bunch of fat idiots here with gyno advicing everyone that is ok to run 500mg test/ week. IT'S NOT

1) I think that depends upon WHY someone is running AAS and the risk they are willing to accept (It's also unfortunate many on PED forums have no damn idea what that risk is which is why they end up here asking such fundamental questions like AI, SERM, TT dosages etc)

2) Yep and what you're describing is a pervasive occurrence on almost every PED forum, with users experimenting with PEDs for everything under the sun including; emotional disorders, my libido, ED, weight loss etc------ while a FEW are using these substances for SKM anabolism

So yea it's discouraging to see how many Meso members are using PEDs for all the wrong reasons, IMO

JIM

 

[Dr JIM]

The guy said everything (echo, ecg, holter, stress test) , it its a normal thing brought on by exercise.

What do you guus think?

I'd suggest you investigate the "Athletes Heart Syndrome" and those changes which occur bc of anaerobic (as in power lifting and BB) and aerobic exercise.

Finally kid yourself not if it was "NORMAL" the cardiac death rate of AAS runners would not approximate FOUR times that of athletes that dont use AAS!

 

[Jankauskas]

I'd suggest you investigate the "Athletes Heart Syndrome" and those changes which occur bc of anaerobic (as in power lifting and BB) and aerobic exercise.

Finally kid yourself not if it was "NORMAL" the cardiac death rate of AAS runners would not approximate FOUR times that of athletes that dont use AAS!

Thanks for your insight.

I have a question regarding cardiovascular exercise:

Should it be done at all times? Or is anaerobic exercise enough for a health standpoint?

Regarding steroid use, should cardiovascular exercise be avoided during cycle because of the possibility of promoting a hypertrophied heart or does it actually help prevent it in any way? I am more inclined toward the former, but given cardio helps decrease blood pressure i am in doubt.

 

[Dr JIM]

Regarding steroid use, should cardiovascular exercise be avoided during cycle because of the possibility of promoting a hypertrophied heart t
.

I'd suggest you investigate the "Athletes Heart Syndrome" and those changes which occur bc of anaerobic (as in power lifting and BB) and aerobic exercise.

 

[Jankauskas]

Since it is more pronounced in endurance athletes, then cardio should be avoided. That is my conclusion after what i read.

 

[Sk8man101]

Finally kid yourself not if it was "NORMAL" the cardiac death rate of AAS runners would not approximate FOUR times that of athletes that dont use AAS!

Damn this one make you think about shit.

 

[Dr JIM]

Damn this one make you think about shit.

For further insight on the CV risks of AAS here's a nice 2014 review and for even more info @Michael Scally MD has listed a wealth of info on the "Anabolic Steroid and Cardiovascular Function" thread. The mortality figures I mentioned are listed on page 3/14.

And as I opined on that thread the C-V risk is real and those that chose to ignore it, may be doing so at their own peril.
JIM