So I just got back from the cardiologist's office

[Demondosage]

I agree. It's almost as if a lot of guys ignore the facts. Despite all the evidence guys are running larger dosages . A lot of young guys running a gram of test?? High test and/or tren always seem to be in the mix when someone has major issues. It's not just blood work that needs to be monitored, it's the heart. Ask any of the older guys that been doing this for a while. Not the older guys that just started a few years. The ones that been doing this for 10+ years what they will tell you. Ask guys like @mands , @Demondosage, @ironwill what their opinions are large dosages if you don't complete. Guys can look damn good on low dosages. It just takes time and work. God forbit someone posts a question on staying healthy or low dose cycles , they get like one reply. If a guy posts the same stupid tren cycle question , its past 2 pages in a day.

Yes Sir!!! Been gearing up for around 18 years now, and a common cycle would be something like 200/wk test and 300/wk deca. Nothing else. Or something like 100/wk test and 700/wk primo with some hcg. It's all diet, something a lot of guys using tren just don't understand. Tren is popular because its the most bang for the buck you're going to find, it's a terrible compound IMO.

 

[Jankauskas]

Yes Sir!!! Been gearing up for around 18 years now, and a common cycle would be something like 200/wk test and 300/wk deca. Nothing else. Or something like 100/wk test and 700/wk primo with some hcg. It's all diet, something a lot of guys using tren just don't understand. Tren is popular because its the most bang for the buck you're going to find, it's a terrible compound IMO.

People have different goals. If you try to get anywhere in a competitive standpoint with those ammounts you mentioned, even if you just want to be a professional model/fitness model, it wont cut it.
My opinion is that, if someone wants to take gear, it should be to aim high.
No point risking your health just to be slightly bigger than the natural guys at the gym, if I didnt want to compete or model, or just had a bad structure, I would have never touched the stuff.

 

[ErikR]

People have different goals. If you try to get anywhere in a competitive standpoint with those ammounts you mentioned, even if you just want to be a professional model/fitness model, it wont cut it.
My opinion is that, if someone wants to take gear, it should be to aim high.
No point risking your health just to be slightly bigger than the natural guys at the gym, if I didnt want to compete or model, or just had a bad structure, I would have never touched the stuff.

You got it all wrong. Lower dose cycles will not make you slightly bigger then regular gym rats. Unless your genetics suck and you don't know how to train. Sorry but if you can't look good on low doses, you don't have the genetics to be top level and make some money at it. Why put your health at risk? Also if you truly love working out and weight training, and want to do it for the long term, then low doses are the way to go. I rather look good and bigger then the average gym rat for many years then look huge for a few years , then have to stop everything because something happend.

 

[Jankauskas]

Sorry but if you can't look good on low doses, you don't have the genetics to be top level and make some money at it.

Its just hilarious how many times I read this load of bullcrap, over and over again... Genetics dont determine how much you grow on gear, everyone has a similar rate of growth on the same substances, with only a slight deviation, provided their training and diet is on point.
The definition of "good genetics" for bodybuilding is, you have a good skeletal structure, long muscle bellies, the right height, the right proportions of your limbs, etc, thats what "good genetics" are.
Anyone can get big, anyone can get shredded, the difference is how they look using the same compounds.

Jay Cutler once said something along the lines of "every ( top) bodybuilder is on the same shit" on an interview with either Jerry Ward or Marc Lobliner.

And by "the same shit" I believe he meant everything available, its not like these guys got there with "beach cycles" anyway.

 

[ErikR]

Its just hilarious how many times I read this load of bullcrap, over and over again... Genetics dont determine how much you grow on gear, everyone has a similar rate of growth on the same substances, with only a slight deviation, provided their training and diet is on point.
The definition of "good genetics" for bodybuilding is, you have a good skeletal structure, long muscle bellies, the right height, the right proportions of your limbs, etc, thats what "good genetics" are.
Anyone can get big, anyone can get shredded, the difference is how they look using the same compounds.

Jay Cutler once said something along the lines of "every ( top) bodybuilder is on the same shit" on an interview with either Jerry Ward or Marc Lobliner.

And by "the same shit" I believe he meant everything available, its not like these guys got there with "beach cycles" anyway.

Where did I say that a persons genetics determine how much they will grow on gear? Even though I do think that some people respond extremely will with low does as opposed to others. Yes muscle and bone structure matters a lot. I'm sorry but those are genetics. You have guys that can take off half the year and come in contest shape. Keven levrone for example. That's all genetics. so many guys have this pipe dream of turning pro. What happens is that they think that they have to run monster cycles to reach that level.

 

[Jankauskas]

Where did I say that a persons genetics determine how much they will grow on gear? Even though I do think that some people respond extremely will with low does as opposed to others. Yes muscle and bone structure matters a lot. I'm sorry but those are genetics. You have guys that can take off half the year and come in contest shape. Keven levrone for example. That's all genetics. so many guys have this pipe dream of turning pro. What happens is that they think that they have to run monster cycles to reach that level.

many guys have this pipe dream of turning pro. What happens is that they think that they have to run monster cycles to reach that level.

Lool and they dont?

 

[ErikR]

Lool and they dont?

Dude, if a weighs 190lbs , do you think he has and business running a gram of test? It takes a long time to build a top level physique. Do you think these guys are running monster cycles for 10+ years and aren't have health issues? You just don't hear about it until something serious happens.

 

[Jankauskas]

Dude, if a weighs 190lbs , do you think he has and business running a gram of test? It takes a long time to build a top level physique. Do you think these guys are running monster cycles for 10+ years and aren't have health issues? You just don't hear about it until something serious happens.

Oh they have health issues, but like you said you just dont hear about it, now the thing that I fucking cant stand is when people say things like "oh you cant be as big as the pros because its their genetics that make them big and your genetics arent good because if they were you would already look like that when you were 15 years old".
That just shows a level of ignorance and stupidity beyond belief, and I cant believe that a human being can be so stupid in this day and age.
If anyone doubts this, just look how huge flex wheeler was before taking gear..

 

[ErikR]

Oh they have health issues, but like you said you just dont hear about it, now the thing that I fucking cant stand is when people say things like "oh you cant be as big as the pros because its their genetics that make them big and your genetics arent good because if they were you would already look like that when you were 15 years old".
That just shows a level of ignorance and stupidity beyond belief, and I cant believe that a human being can be so stupid in this day and age.
If anyone doubts this, just look how huge flex wheeler was before taking gear..View attachment 77396

Really ??? Your going to bring up flex wheeler who's known for his amazing genetics? Some people have the ability to gain muscle very easily. That's not genetics? You think it's all drugs?? There are guys on this board that been cycling for a few years now , and look like they just did their first cycle. I'm done arguing with you. Genetics don't matter. Just take massive amounts of steroids and eat and you will be as big and lean as Dorian Yates.

 

[Jankauskas]

There are guys on this board that been cycling for a few years now , and look like they just did their first cycle

Yeah, because they dont know what they are doing or used bunk gear.

 

[EcpertRealistic]

That's not genetics? You think it's all drugs??

It's all about what compounds you cycle and the ratios. Testosterone will make people with good genetics look like fat lazy idiots. If you run testosterone and think you going to look like a pro you will be very disappointed.

NOW, (side effects aside) if you run a small dose of testosterone like 100mg with 300mg Deca, 50mg inject Winstrol a per day YOU WILL LOOK LIKE A PRO. And if you are a experienced freak who don't really give a f**k about health issues you can run this Tri-combo at double or even triple the dosages or add high quality compounds like Tren, Mast, Adrol. There's no cycle more aesthetically pleasing than the Deca-winstrol, low test cycle.

Another Aesthetically pleasing cycle with focus on size will be Adrol, Deca, Tren ran along 100mg of test.


TESTOSTERONE IS THE BODYBUILDERS WORST NIGHTMARE along with Dianabol. Dbol and test are powerlifting compounds

 

[Just Fish]

It's all about what compounds you cycle and the ratios. Testosterone will make people with good genetics look like fat lazy idiots. If you run testosterone and think you going to look like a pro you will be very disappointed.

NOW, (side effects aside) if you run a small dose of testosterone like 100mg with 300mg Deca, 50mg inject Winstrol a per day YOU WILL LOOK LIKE A PRO. And if you are a experienced freak who don't really give a f**k about health issues you can run this Tri-combo at double or even triple the dosages or add high quality compounds like Tren, Mast, Adrol. There's no cycle more aesthetically pleasing than the Deca-winstrol, low test cycle.

Another Aesthetically pleasing cycle with focus on size will be Adrol, Deca, Tren ran along 100mg of test.


TESTOSTERONE IS THE BODYBUILDERS WORST NIGHTMARE along with Dianabol. Dbol and test are powerlifting compounds

You dumb cocksucker. Get back on the corner bitch

 

[jonkobeck]

Your abusing drugs. An enlarged heart goes part and parcel with abusing steroids. That shouldn't be a surprise.

 

[Just Fish]

Your abusing drugs. An enlarged heart goes part and parcel with abusing steroids. That shouldn't be a surprise.

So does working out

 

[Docd187123]

Its just hilarious how many times I read this load of bullcrap, over and over again... Genetics dont determine how much you grow on gear, everyone has a similar rate of growth on the same substances, with only a slight deviation, provided their training and diet is on point.

This is completely incorrect.

 

[Jankauskas]

This is completely incorrect.

Shut me up by backing it with evidence then.

 

[Docd187123]

Shut me up by backing it with evidence then.

You made the claim, the burden of proof is on you. Besides, my intention isn't to shut you up. I'd prefer a dialogue where ideas are shared so others can learn as well.

I will point you out where to begin though.

1) there's a large deviation in the amount of AR's from person to person

2) there's a large deviation to where those AR's are spread out throughout the body from person to person

3) the deviation in response to gear is not small as you assume otherwise everyone would need a similar dose of test for TRT as an example. Instead you see some people needing as little as 75mg a week or maybe less while others need close to 200mg a week.

4) there are many other hormones at play besides the ones being injected into our bodies. Leptin, ghrelin, cortisol, peptide YY, p-ratio, etc etc.

All the above and more are genetic factors which vary wildly from person to person. All the above maybe influenced differently for each person by gear. All the above help determine one's progress irregardless of gear usage. Your assumption basically says everyone will grow the same rate on gear which is preposterous. There's a bell curve in there just as with anything else. The so called Pro's are pros bc of many different factors, one of which is the fact that they lie on the outside of the curve in regards to their response to gear.

 

[gr8whitetrukker]

Its just hilarious how many times I read this load of bullcrap, over and over again... Genetics dont determine how much you grow on gear, everyone has a similar rate of growth on the same substances, with only a slight deviation, provided their training and diet is on point.
The definition of "good genetics" for bodybuilding is, you have a good skeletal structure, long muscle bellies, the right height, the right proportions of your limbs, etc, thats what "good genetics" are.
Anyone can get big, anyone can get shredded, the difference is how they look using the same compounds.

Genetics absolutely determine what you will look like, how strong you get and how far you can take athletics, bodybuilding or PL/Strongman. We are not all created equal and that is a fact.

Your definition of good genetics is right. But its only half the tale. Its one of the more fascinating subjects to me because as i go thru life i meet people and see things that completely change your outlook on the matter. Your way of thinking is most likely because you are young. But i will point out you could take 100 different ppl and micro manage every aspect of their training, diet, sleep and drug regimen and you will discover there will be tiers of development. Very very few will blow the results out of the water, some will do very well. The vast majority will achieve average development and some will perform poorly. THIS IS WHAT MAKES AVERAGES. Thats why theres US and THEM.

 

[Docd187123]

Genetics absolutely determine what you will look like, how strong you get and how far you can take athletics, bodybuilding or PL/Strongman. We are not all created equal and that is a fact.

Your definition of good genetics is right. But its only half the tale. Its one of the more fascinating subjects to me because as i go thru life i meet people and see things that completely change your outlook on the matter. Your way of thinking is most likely because you are young. But i will point out you could take 100 different ppl and micro manage every aspect of their training, diet, sleep and drug regimen and you will discover there will be tiers of development. Very very few will blow the results out of the water, some will do very well. The vast majority will achieve average development and some will perform poorly. THIS IS WHAT MAKES AVERAGES. Thats why theres US and THEM.

Trukker almost getting philosophical in this bitch. Nicely written big guy

 

[Jankauskas]

You made the claim, the burden of proof is on you. Besides, my intention isn't to shut you up. I'd prefer a dialogue where ideas are shared so others can learn as well.

I will point you out where to begin though.

1) there's a large deviation in the amount of AR's from person to person

2) there's a large deviation to where those AR's are spread out throughout the body from person to person

3) the deviation in response to gear is not small as you assume otherwise everyone would need a similar dose of test for TRT as an example. Instead you see some people needing as little as 75mg a week or maybe less while others need close to 200mg a week.

4) there are many other hormones at play besides the ones being injected into our bodies. Leptin, ghrelin, cortisol, peptide YY, p-ratio, etc etc.

All the above and more are genetic factors which vary wildly from person to person. All the above maybe influenced differently for each person by gear. All the above help determine one's progress irregardless of gear usage. Your assumption basically says everyone will grow the same rate on gear which is preposterous. There's a bell curve in there just as with anything else. The so called Pro's are pros bc of many different factors, one of which is the fact that they lie on the outside of the curve in regards to their response to gear.

If you look at individuals that are natural, there are no cases of extreme difference on muscle mass ammounts.

Lets take the example of people who dont train, if what you claim is true, then we would have non trainees being "massive" compared to other human beings because they had more AR than the rest, but this is not the case.
Also, in true natural bodybuilding competitions, you look at the guys there, and they are all at the same level, if the show is truly tested, there are no extreme deviations from the norm. The extreme deviations only start to happen when there is a possibility of the participants being on some sort of substance, like you see on the "fake natural" competitions.
At mister olympia there is even more deviation, big ramy and winklaar have more mass than the rest, why is that?
Simple: because they take the most ammounts of gear. This sport is like a war, you do everything in your power to win, you take what you gotta take, some are able to withstand taking more, others dont and have to take less, but everyone takes a lot of stuff, nothing compared with the run-of-the-mill cycles we do.
Naturals look all the same because of the natural "ceiling" that keeps them from deviating, thats why after some years of being in the "business" you can tell if someone on the gym is on something or not, because you have an idea of what is possible, and the person in question is starting to deviate from it.