Joe Rogan Talks To FCC Commissioner About Net Neutrality

[Swiper]

Which is why they are all in support of removing NN? Come on.



So you think it's a good idea to give more power to the biggest corporations? That's going to help the smaller companies compete?

You've provided points both for and against your argument in the same post man.

more power? no, more freedom to every company not just the big ones, all companies.

Little companies can’t compete with Mass regulations. the bigger companies can because they have the funds resources and employees to do so. For the smaller companies it’s too hard for them to compete with all the rules and regulations etc.

 

[flenser]

Companies like Netflix and YouTube already force potential customers to purchase contracts with ISPs.

How do you watch Netflix and YouTube without internet?

You only have to look at the profits made by the ISP's as compared to Netflix and Google/YouTube. If those companies returned a small portion of their profits to the providers giving them access to their customers, there would be more competition and much better service.

Do you think you should pay more for electricity because you don’t live in a metropolitan area? Or should you pay more because you flush your toilet more than once per day? Should you pay more taxes for contributing to traffic congestion during rush hour?

Yes, I do.

 

[Eman]

I used Comcast as an example, because you did. Give ME a fucking break. There are tons of small providers all over the country trying to deliver decent service to their customers, but they have to bear the costs of the high bandwidth use of a relatively small number of companies.

Your sentiment is that we should abolish NN, which will give Comcast even more power, to help the small providers then? Makes no sense. I understand what you, and @Swiper, are trying to express regarding the smaller companies but it is the most ass backwards way of trying to help them imo.

 

[johntt44]

That's great, you're right. But with regard to internet providers, how many do you have to choose from in your area? There isn't



NN wasn't designed to immediately make some kind of huge difference, it was a proactive measure.

Where I live, I have SOME options... But not many. An hour away from me, there is about one option... There's no such thing as a competitive market in those areas and there's barely one where I live and it's much more densely populated. How is a competitive market going to help someone where this is no competition?

What about Comcast owning NBC? They are able to encourage you to watch their content versus something like Netflix by delivering one at a high speed versus the latter pausing every few seconds to buffer. They have the ability to market to you and show you what they want you to see versus what you actually want to see.

No issues with that?

Where I live we have Frontier fios (formerly verizon), Spectrum, and obviously satellite services. The next city over has Xfinity and the satellite services. I swear they do it on purpose to keep their prices up. Why cant both cities have all?

 

[tenpoundsleft]

Ultimately, users have to bear the cost of whatever loads/usage they impose. There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

Quality, price, delivery (wait time) - pick only two. If you want low or fixed price, you WILL have to accept either lower quality, or longer wait time. An immutable law of economics - only lefties argue against it.

The so-called "net neutrality" approach would have imposed "free lunches" and this in turn would have created stagnation.

Government is rarely the solution, definitely not in any non steady state model.

With 5G around the corner, and then 6G etc chasing a finite performance horizon (ie our eyes and ears can't benefit from much greater resolutions than what we have now, and our homes can't accommodate TVs much larger than what we have either) we're looking at just a few more applications of Moore's Law before we have practically infinite bandwidth.

The "NN" handwringing by the lefties probably comes from a lack of understanding of technology and no confidence in competition. An elitist worldview will do that to you.

Not that I think Trump viewed it this way, but his gut feel was correct and that's good enough.

 

[Spooby]

Can't wait for technology to get to the point where programs program themselves and we all benefit greatly, and we'll merge with it. The universe will be at our finger tips. (Technically speaking, it literally is already)

 

[RealET]

I used Comcast as an example, because you did. Give ME a fucking break. There are tons of small providers all over the country trying to deliver decent service to their customers, but they have to bear the costs of the high bandwidth use of a relatively small number of companies.

Here’s a letter signed by the small providers urging the FCC to overturn their decision because they’ll be crushed by the giants.
Btw, a “ton” of small companies is an extreme overstatement. Who owns all the fiber optic lines? You really think there is room for competition for these smaller companies if even google can’t run their fiber optic lines in almost every state?

Here’s a question for you as well. The FCC’s decision will allow the ISP giants to throttle access to any of their competition.

What negative consequences will affect competition with the regulation?

 

[flenser]

Your sentiment is that we should abolish NN, which will give Comcast even more power, to help the small providers then? Makes no sense. I understand what you, and @Swiper, are trying to express regarding the smaller companies but it is the most ass backwards way of trying to help them imo.

Just note that the issues with Comcast before NN was established were handled through contract law. NN gave the FCC quite of bit of power as well. Government fiefdoms like the FCC are not always (almost never) on the consumer's side either.

 

[flenser]

View attachment 83575 View attachment 83576

Here’s a letter signed by the small providers urging the FCC to overturn their decision because they’ll be crushed by the giants.
Btw, a “ton” of small companies is an extreme overstatement. Who owns all the fiber optic lines? You really think there is room for competition for these smaller companies if even google can’t run their fiber optic lines in almost every state?

Here’s a question for you as well. The FCC’s decision will allow the ISP giants to throttle access to any of their competition.

What negative consequences will affect competition with the regulation?

Yes, there's room for competition. There is ALWAYS room for competition. Not that long ago 95% of the memory chips (for desktop PCs) were made by one company, and yet the price went down almost continuously. Had government become involved there's no telling what the cost would be today. Certainly, the R&D funded to to improve speed and reduce size would have been more limited.

"The FCC's decision" ... this is the problem. Pricing should be determined by the consumer.

 

[Spooby]

Yes, there's room for competition. There is ALWAYS room for competition. Not that long ago 95% of the memory chips (for desktop PCs) were made by one company, and yet the price went down almost continuously. Had government become involved there's no telling what the cost would be today. Certainly, the R&D funded to to improve speed and reduce size would have been more limited.

"The FCC's decision" ... this is the problem. Pricing should be determined by the consumer.

Interesting point. But should it be determined by the consumer, or a dealing between the businesses themselves? I'm currently in a business course and that was one thing I just took an exam over regarding capitalism. Just curious here.

 

[flenser]

Interesting point. But should it be determined by the consumer, or a dealing between the businesses themselves? I'm currently in a business course and that was one thing I just took an exam over regarding capitalism. Just curious here.

How do you know what people, the consumer, want if you don't know how much they are willing to pay for stuff? Good businesses will try to figure that out and use it to determine how they deal and contract with one another. Bad businesses will lobby Congress and the FCC.

 

[RealET]

Yes, there's room for competition. There is ALWAYS room for competition. Not that long ago 95% of the memory chips (for desktop PCs) were made by one company, and yet the price went down almost continuously. Had government become involved there's no telling what the cost would be today. Certainly, the R&D funded to to improve speed and reduce size would have been more limited.

"The FCC's decision" ... this is the problem. Pricing should be determined by the consumer.

If there’s room for competition, why don’t you start your own ISP?

refrain from blanket statements such as “there’s always room for competition”.

Please elaborate on your memory chip anecdote, and how it relates to the current situation.

I’m sure you are smart enough to not relate things to “what could have” instead of “what is”. You simply can’t base your opinion on “who knows what would have happened if government intervened” because you don’t actually know.

Let’s keep this purely based on facts and not anecdotes. Furthermore, memory chips aren’t a class of utilities. It falls into production and sales.

My question still stands, how will the regulations to uphold net neutrality affect small businesses and competition?

 

[RealET]

How do you know what people, the consumer, want if you don't know how much they are willing to pay for stuff? Good businesses will try to figure that out and use it to determine how they deal and contract with one another. Bad businesses will lobby Congress and the FCC.

Come on the internet is almost a necessity in today’s life. People will spend an extraordinary amount of money because it is a necessity. I’m sure every university student would pay $200 a month for internet because they require it. Businesses would no doubt pay $20,000 for internet because it is required. Poor people, well you can forget about them. But middle class and upwards will no doubt pay outrageous prices for internet nowadays. It’s pure greed my friend.

It’s not what the consumer wants at this point, it’s what they need.

 

[Spooby]

I don't think it would ever come to that, ET. The People of the US would never allow it.

 

[flenser]

If there’s room for competition, why don’t you start your own ISP?

Because I'm not interested in being an ISP.

refrain from blanket statements such as “there’s always room for competition”.

No.

Please elaborate on your memory chip anecdote, and how it relates to the current situation.

Smaller computer manufacturers were said to have limited access to the available memory. There was a push, a small one that fortunately failed, to prevent memory chip manufacturers from giving special contracts to large computer manufacturers like Dell.

I’m sure you are smart enough to not relate things to “what could have” instead of “what is”. You simply can’t base your opinion on “who knows what would have happened if government intervened” because you don’t actually know.

Actually, I do.

Let’s keep this purely based on facts and not anecdotes. Furthermore, memory chips aren’t a class of utilities. It falls into production and sales.

OK. it's a fact that NN was established on the PREDICTION that the imaginary problems is supposedly addressed would be encountered without it. It's also a fact it was voted on before the public was allowed to see or respond to it.

My question still stands, how will the regulations to uphold net neutrality affect small businesses and competition?

As I already described, under NN providers cannot charge consumers for the bandwidth they use. They also cannot charge large corporations for the bandwidth they stream to those users.

 

[flenser]

Btw, a “ton” of small companies is an extreme overstatement. Who owns all the fiber optic lines? You really think there is room for competition for these smaller companies if even google can’t run their fiber optic lines in almost every state?

Internet Service Providers in the US

 

[flenser]

Come on the internet is almost a necessity in today’s life. People will spend an extraordinary amount of money because it is a necessity. I’m sure every university student would pay $200 a month for internet because they require it. Businesses would no doubt pay $20,000 for internet because it is required. Poor people, well you can forget about them. But middle class and upwards will no doubt pay outrageous prices for internet nowadays. It’s pure greed my friend.

It’s not what the consumer wants at this point, it’s what they need.

Right, and you want a government agency to set the prices consumers pay. I think I'll pass.

 

[tenpoundsleft]

Right, and you want a government agency to set the prices consumers pay. I think I'll pass.

What???

It works so well in Venezuela and large parts of Europe. Can't trust these pesky consumers to make their own decisions, not when experts can do it for them.

 

[flenser]

What???

It works so well in Venezuela and large parts of Europe. Can't trust these pesky consumers to make their own decisions, not when experts can do it for them.

And let's not forget how Carter fixed gas prices for everyone!

 

[tenpoundsleft]

And let's not forget how Carter fixed gas prices for everyone!

I remember, I've sat in Carter's gas lines waiting. That guy was/is such a total moron - saved by Obama from being the dumbest, most arrogant post-WWII president. Peanut farmer indeed.