Is reverse dieting neccessary?

[MrRippedZilla]

Alright, so what would be your general approach with someone who just finished prep and did their show? Are you saying you would bring their calories right back to say 3,000 (just to throw a number out their) ? Would you eliminate cardio completely? What about the drug aspect ?

It depends on the psychological profile of the client (unhealthy eating habits are rampant in bodybuilding) but I would never take longer than than 3-5 days to get back to maintenance. When your in contest shape, nothing good will come from trying to stay in that shape and extending the diet through "reverse dieting". Nothing at all.

Cardio I leave to the client. I've had folks come into shows with zero cardio. I've had cardio bunnies who even in the off season must get their regular sessions in.

Drug aspect depends on the drugs in question.

I think OP misspoke himself by using the term reverse diet. How would he keep gains while waiting to get back to maintenance?
Assuming he’s on cycle, STEROIDS!!!
Whether you a “clean conscious” coach is completely fucking irrelevant!
Op never once mentioned contest prep.
He’s a big dude and between the gear, adding cardio and slightly raises cals should keep him in check for the duration of his “short break” .

The definition of reverse dieting, at least in my world, is what Doc described in post #16. Not jumping straight to maintenance. Instead slowly increasing calories over weeks for bullshit reasons (building metabolic capacity, reversing diet induced negative adaptations or whatever - it doesn't do any of this in reality).

What your referring to, I think, is a simple diet break (staying at maintenance for a little while). Which, I have no issue with. Very much a case of miscommunication.

And to the contrary, me having a "clean conscious" is very relevant in an industry filled with assholes willing to sell you a whole bunch of bullshit just to make a few bucks. Especially if that bullshit is actually contrary to the well being of the client - which reverse dieting very much is

 

[TheH0517]

Why would you gain fat if your eating at maintainance?

To answer this question specifically, you wouldn’t. But you’ll have to gauge what that maintanence is and just jumping up to what you think might be your TDEE could cause some issues. A mathematical calculation will only get you so close to your true maintanence calories and I can assure you that your maintanence won’t be the same as before your cut.

 

[jaymaximus]

I'm with @MrRippedZilla for the most part. I'm prepping for my first show and afterward I plan on slowly moving back up, not because I believe in reverse dieting, but I'm so far below maintenance I know I can't take it in. I struggles on cheat days to hit 3000, my stomach isn't as ready as my eyes are

 

[ErikR]

To answer this question specifically, you wouldn’t. But you’ll have to gauge what that maintanence is and just jumping up to what you think might be your TDEE could cause some issues. A mathematical calculation will only get you so close to your true maintanence calories and I can assure you that your maintanence won’t be the same as before your cut.

I agree with that. I'm sure the first week I will probably gain a couple pounds from glycogen and water, but I might have to adjust

 

[ErikR]

I'm with @MrRippedZilla for the most part. I'm prepping for my first show and afterward I plan on slowly moving back up, not because I believe in reverse dieting, but I'm so far below maintenance I know I can't take it in. I struggles on cheat days to hit 3000, my stomach isn't as ready as my eyes are

Jay , you got really lean. Did you platau at any time? I lost 15 lbs and I been wiped out and stopped loosing. Mentally I feel I need a brake. It's getting in the way of my everyday tasks. I'm almost where I want to be, but there is no rush.

 

[TheH0517]

I agree with that. I'm sure the first week I will probably gain a couple pounds from glycogen and water, but I might have to adjust

Ya, there’s a hundred ways to do it. But for me personally, I see the best results when I can slowly manipulate and adjust based on my changes. I’d rather prevent unwanted changes and gain quality mass than create the need for a more intense cut where I lose more mass than desired.

 

[Docd187123]

So the whole, dieting slows your metabolism is false then right? I'm assuming that's the reason some think you need to reverse diet. Almost like under normal circumstances so and so would be your maintainance according to your stats , but since you been in a deficit so long you metabolism has slowed down.

No, it’s
Not false. Dieting does slow down metabolism. Think of what TDEE actually
Encompasses.

TDEE = RMR/BMR + TEF + NEAT + EPOC + any exercise done.

When you lose mass, whether it’s fat or
Muscle, your BMR is going to be affected. But this in no way justifies reverse dieting.

 

[Docd187123]

Ya, NORMALLY someone who is thinking about reverse dieting probably has the goal of going back into a surplus.

Our bodies adapt to run most efficiently to whatever situation we put it in. Therefore when we restrict calories, our metabolism is going to slow down in order to preserve its energy. Our thyroid will produce less hormone because high levels aren’t required anymore and insulin sensitity will adapt as well. Our bodies will become used to running off of the restricted amount of calories and energy stores our bodies contain.

If you go from a 12-16 week cut with a peak of 1,500 calories a day straight to 3,500 calories a day, your metabolism will not be able to process those calories. There will be excess energy and it will be stored.

This might not be true if you only jump up to 3,000 calories because that might not put you at a surplus.

But IMO, the purpose of reverse dieting is geared towards revving up your metabolism so that when you reach 4,000 calories your body can process these calories more efficiently and you’ll maintain a better physique in the long run. It’s not only important to keep off fat gains, but your body can process the calories you feed it and therefore can turn those calories into more quality mass instead of being forced to store it.

Everyone has their own opinions, techniques, and experiences. That’s what makes these forums so amazing. Different things work for different people and only through experience do we truly find the best way for us. But remember, just because you don’t utilize these methods doesn’t mean they are pointless or useless. They may even improve your abilities if you tried them. Being open-minded and willing to learn, despite the vast knowledge you have, will keep others from surpassing you.

The body will ALWAYS process whatever calories you feed it. How fast or slowly one raises the caloric levels has no bearing on where that mass/calories will be stored. This is basic physiology

 

[jaymaximus]

Jay , you got really lean. Did you platau at any time? I lost 15 lbs and I been wiped out and stopped loosing. Mentally I feel I need a brake. It's getting in the way of my everyday tasks. I'm almost where I want to be, but there is no rush.

I plataued a few times. Just adjusted my macros and kept it movin. When I got to where I'm at now I stayed at it's maintenance until I figured out what was next.

 

[TheH0517]

The body will ALWAYS process whatever calories you feed it. How fast or slowly one raises the caloric levels has no bearing on where that mass/calories will be stored. This is basic physiology

Ya, you’re right.

I guess the way I see it is that a lot of people think they can go back to the maintenance calories they knew before they cut down. And they don’t realize they’re TDEE is lower than it used to be.

So in my case, it’s a good way for me to find my new maintenance and how macros effect me now due to insulin sensitive, etc. Then I’m also able to gauge how far into surplus I’m going. I’m able to add things each week to improve the process rather than figuring out what’s creating issues and removing things that don’t need to be removed. Not sure if this makes sense, but it does in my head lol.

You could compare it to adding compounds. Most advise to only try one new compound at a time so you have a better idea of what could be causing unwanted sides.

Reverse dieting is in no way necessary. But I feel it has its purpose and I’ve experienced benefits from it. Doesn’t mean I’ll utilize it every time.

 

[Docd187123]

Ya, you’re right.

I guess the way I see it is that a lot of people think they can go back to the maintenance calories they knew before they cut down. And they don’t realize they’re TDEE is lower than it used to be.

So in my case, it’s a good way for me to find my new maintenance and how macros effect me now due to insulin sensitive, etc. Then I’m also able to gauge how far into surplus I’m going. I’m able to add things each week to improve the process rather than figuring out what’s creating issues and removing things that don’t need to be removed. Not sure if this makes sense, but it does in my head lol.

You could compare it to adding compounds. Most advise to only try one new compound at a time so you have a better idea of what could be causing unwanted sides.

Reverse dieting is in no way necessary. But I feel it has its purpose and I’ve experienced benefits from it. Doesn’t mean I’ll utilize it every time.

And if you truly enjoy it, it’s not harming you, etc then by all means no one is trying to stop you from doing it. After all, and RippedZilla agrees with this I’m sure, the most important aspect of dieting is consistency and coming up with something YOU yourself can stick to. If you have the “perfect” diet yet cannot stop from going off it, what good is it in reality?

All Zilla and i are trying to say is that it’s in no way necessary, it can be dangerous in very specific cases, and doesn’t offer up any benefits. If you understand this and wish to run it anyway then go ahead since you have all the info you need in your hands.

 

[TheH0517]

And if you truly enjoy it, it’s not harming you, etc then by all means no one is trying to stop you from doing it. After all, and RippedZilla agrees with this I’m sure, the most important aspect of dieting is consistency and coming up with something YOU yourself can stick to. If you have the “perfect” diet yet cannot stop from going off it, what good is it in reality?

All Zilla and i are trying to say is that it’s in no way necessary, it can be dangerous in very specific cases, and doesn’t offer up any benefits. If you understand this and wish to run it anyway then go ahead since you have all the info you need in your hands.

All so true brother. I am going to read up on it some more because I haven’t been aware of the risks it involves.

I’m about to look that article Zilla posted.

 

[Docd187123]

All so true brother. I am going to read up on it some more because I haven’t been aware of the risks it involves.

I’m about to look that article Zilla posted.

Zilla is a very intelligent and well versed guy. He would be more than happy to post any research you’d like to see if you want.

 

[ErikR]

Would you guys recommend decreasing calories or doing more when you hit a plateau? I also feel like I getting too light and shrinking.