Insulin

[NewBut-TrueDedicaion]

hey guys been a while.

Jusf had a question regarding insulin

Currently running 6iu hgh second I wake up then half hour later 14iu humalin

Later that day after work roughly 9-10 hrs later I take 12 iu humalog pre workout. I work out for roughly 2-2.5 hrs including shower / sauna. Then I take another 14 iu of humulin.

My question is to keep the fat gaining down should I just keep the iu lower or just stick to pre workout shots.

This routine is what I've always done in the past but i always get fat gain during my bulk.

Currently running 1500 mg test e weekly

6'2 215lbs 10% bf 29 years old

 

[Demondosage]

I think it's too much. Especially 12iu preworkout. 5 iu pre is all that's needed to shuttle nutrients. Just my opinion though

 

[Demondosage]

Also, using the sauna after a 12iu shot of fast,acting insulin is a very slippery slope, because the heat factor will require more carbs to balance out insulin, you may find that the standard 10 grams per unit becomes more like 12 grams of carbs per unit

 

[Morefyah]

Wtf man?, 1500mgof Test!! why 6iu at once seems like a waste. Why not break it up 3iu-3iu?

 

[Brindle76]

hey guys been a while.

Jusf had a question regarding insulin

Also, using the sauna after a 12iu shot of fast,acting insulin is a very slippery slope, because the heat factor will require more carbs to balance out insulin, you may find that the standard 10 grams per unit becomes more like 12 grams of carbs per unit

Currently running 6iu hgh second I wake up then half hour later 14iu humalin

Later that day after work roughly 9-10 hrs later I take 12 iu humalog pre workout. I work out for roughly 2-2.5 hrs including shower / sauna. Then I take another 14 iu of humulin.

My question is to keep the fat gaining down should I just keep the iu lower or just stick to pre workout shots.

This routine is what I've always done in the past but i always get fat gain during my bulk.

Currently running 1500 mg test e weekly

6'2 215lbs 10% bf 29 years old

Also, using the sauna after a 12iu shot of fast,acting insulin is a very slippery slope, because the heat factor will require more carbs to balance out insulin, you may find that the standard 10 grams per unit becomes more like 12 grams of carbs per unit

Yep, learned that the hard way...heat speeds up absorption.

 

[NewBut-TrueDedicaion]

I think it's too much. Especially 12iu preworkout. 5 iu pre is all that's needed to shuttle nutrients. Just my opinion though

I was always told for every 20lbs of
Body weight you should take 1 iu of insulin. So I'm 215-220 I take 12.
I love the pump I get also

 

[NewBut-TrueDedicaion]

Also, using the sauna after a 12iu shot of fast,acting insulin is a very slippery slope, because the heat factor will require more carbs to balance out insulin, you may find that the standard 10 grams per unit becomes more like 12 grams of carbs per unit

I use the sauana at the end of my workout 2 hours after injection while I sip on my
Post workout shake. Never had a problem in the past. I also am very good at noticing signs of hypo situations

 

[NewBut-TrueDedicaion]

Wtf man?, 1500mgof Test!! why 6iu at once seems like a waste. Why not break it up 3iu-3iu?

Your not suppose to digest any food with hgh for at least 45min to an hour afterwords and the way my work is it's hard enough eating enough prior to my workouts. I don't see to many claims of it being that much superior to divide the shots like that.
I did it in the past tho on my last hgh cycle. Had a different out of town job. Was easy to jab on the ride home but this job not so much.

Basica

 

[NewBut-TrueDedicaion]

Yep, learned that the hard way...heat speeds up absorption.

Wouldn't that mean working out hard would have an impact on the absorption rate ? That doesn't quite make to much sense to me. I workout hard to the point I could ring out my shirt and shorts with sweat. More so then even a suana would
Do to me in the short period of time I spend in it.

 

[fodsod]

First off, insulin doesn't make you fat. Eating too many carbs to "match your insulin dose" is what makes people fat. You match your dose to your carb intake not the other way around. Set your diet, then add the amount of insulin needed to off set and shuttle those nutrients.

I'm going to call in a resident expert on this one @Wunderpus just loves the insulin makes me fat claim.

In other words, don't add carbs just so you can take more insulin. You already said you get fat every time you do this so there's your first clue that you're doing something wrong.

I recommend that you adjust your diet, then adjust your insulin to match it. I'd also suggest that you split that 6 ius into 3 in the am and 3 pre-wo with your insulin. That will give you the shuttling effect of insulin during your training like you have now but also introduce GH into the mix to optimize recovery and maximize tissue gain during the training recovery window.

The next step would be dropping the Humalin in the a.m. and adding a Lantus or other long acting insulin and up your GH dose so you can do 4+ injections daily.

All the information you read about eating with GH and other things don't apply when your injecting exogenous GH and using exogenous insulin. You're over riding your body's natural mechanisms so things a natural person needs to worry about aren't relevant.

 

[Wunderpus]

First off, insulin doesn't make you fat. Eating too many carbs to "match your insulin dose" is what makes people fat. You match your dose to your carb intake not the other way around. Set your diet, then add the amount of insulin needed to off set and shuttle those nutrients.

I'm going to call in a resident expert on this one @Wunderpus just loves the insulin makes me fat claim.

In other words, don't add carbs just so you can take more insulin. You already said you get fat every time you do this so there's your first clue that you're doing something wrong.

I recommend that you adjust your diet, then adjust your insulin to match it. I'd also suggest that you split that 6 ius into 3 in the am and 3 pre-wo with your insulin. That will give you the shuttling effect of insulin during your training like you have now but also introduce GH into the mix to optimize recovery and maximize tissue gain during the training recovery window.

The next step would be dropping the Humalin in the a.m. and adding a Lantus or other long acting insulin and up your GH dose so you can do 4+ injections daily.

All the information you read about eating with GH and other things don't apply when your injecting exogenous GH and using exogenous insulin. You're over riding your body's natural mechanisms so things a natural person needs to worry about aren't relevant.

Caloric surplus: Body adds fat
Caloric deficit: Body eats away at fat

Insulin does NOT change this fact.

However, it can help mobilize nutrients to either/both fat and muscle cells. This why timing insulin makes the biggest difference. IME using insulin in and around training (whether exo. insulin or stimulated via carb intake), the gains are mostly muscle. Likely due to the fact the glycogen stores of the muscles are depleted and are prioritized over fat tissue.

Fools cater their diet to their insulin. Cater your insulin to your diet and you will not add fat... If you can "fit" 100g of carbs in your daily macro allotment around your training, use ~10 iu insulin accordingly.

 

[Wunderpus]

First off, insulin doesn't make you fat. Eating too many carbs to "match your insulin dose" is what makes people fat. You match your dose to your carb intake not the other way around. Set your diet, then add the amount of insulin needed to off set and shuttle those nutrients.

I'm going to call in a resident expert on this one @Wunderpus just loves the insulin makes me fat claim.

In other words, don't add carbs just so you can take more insulin. You already said you get fat every time you do this so there's your first clue that you're doing something wrong.

I recommend that you adjust your diet, then adjust your insulin to match it. I'd also suggest that you split that 6 ius into 3 in the am and 3 pre-wo with your insulin. That will give you the shuttling effect of insulin during your training like you have now but also introduce GH into the mix to optimize recovery and maximize tissue gain during the training recovery window.

The next step would be dropping the Humalin in the a.m. and adding a Lantus or other long acting insulin and up your GH dose so you can do 4+ injections daily.

All the information you read about eating with GH and other things don't apply when your injecting exogenous GH and using exogenous insulin. You're over riding your body's natural mechanisms so things a natural person needs to worry about aren't relevant.

Yes, why use a transport hormone to shuttle nutrients when the muscles are not depleted? Lantus really works best as a basal insulin for most users, anyways... Those GH users using HIGH levels of GH that have blood glucose spikes from the GH can benefit from the lantus, and there are a FEW other examples but they are more complex.

I've seen BB'ers use insulin during the prep just a FEW DAYS before a show and come in lean and peeled. If insulin made you fat.... LOL. Jordan Peters runs insulin during his cut, assuming the diet can "fit" the insulin, as just one example.

 

[Demondosage]

Less insulin will always be the case in any fat loss environment, simply for the fact that there is only so much you're going to use while staying under maintenance cals, the same way someone with a low carb diet has less insulin spikes

 

[NewBut-TrueDedicaion]

First off, insulin doesn't make you fat. Eating too many carbs to "match your insulin dose" is what makes people fat. You match your dose to your carb intake not the other way around. Set your diet, then add the amount of insulin needed to off set and shuttle those nutrients.

I'm going to call in a resident expert on this one @Wunderpus just loves the insulin makes me fat claim.

In other words, don't add carbs just so you can take more insulin. You already said you get fat every time you do this so there's your first clue that you're doing something wrong.

I recommend that you adjust your diet, then adjust your insulin to match it. I'd also suggest that you split that 6 ius into 3 in the am and 3 pre-wo with your insulin. That will give you the shuttling effect of insulin during your training like you have now but also introduce GH into the mix to optimize recovery and maximize tissue gain during the training recovery window.

The next step would be dropping the Humalin in the a.m. and adding a Lantus or other long acting insulin and up your GH dose so you can do 4+ injections daily.

All the information you read about eating with GH and other things don't apply when your injecting exogenous GH and using exogenous insulin. You're over riding your body's natural mechanisms so things a natural person needs to worry about aren't relevant.

Thanks for the reply. That makes a lot more sense to me. I know insulin doesn't make me fat it's my diet but I honestly never thought of only using enough insulin based on what I already ate. I was always on assumption that I needed 1iu per 20lbs of body weight and you need 7-10g of carbs per iu of insulin for it to be worth your while. So I've been adding extra carbs in when I don't need to.espexially in the mornings ( I'm guessing this is the bulk of my
Problem)
Will I still get the same pump in the gym if I dose my slin based on my carbs from food now ? Or should do what i typically do now which is humalog 12 iu and a pre workout shake that has the appropriate amount of carbs in it with all sorts of other Supps. Also I do eat a carb meal an hour before gym but obviously that's not going to work with humalog.

 

[fodsod]

Thanks for the reply. That makes a lot more sense to me. I know insulin doesn't make me fat it's my diet but I honestly never thought of only using enough insulin based on what I already ate. I was always on assumption that I needed 1iu per 20lbs of body weight and you need 7-10g of carbs per iu of insulin for it to be worth your while. So I've been adding extra carbs in when I don't need to.espexially in the mornings ( I'm guessing this is the bulk of my
Problem)
Will I still get the same pump in the gym if I dose my slin based on my carbs from food now ? Or should do what i typically do now which is humalog 12 iu and a pre workout shake that has the appropriate amount of carbs in it with all sorts of other Supps. Also I do eat a carb meal an hour before gym but obviously that's not going to work with humalog.

Your pre-work out shake is fine as long as you haven't over added carbs to off-set the insulin. Most guys can actually get away with 6-7 grams per iu. You should experiment with it to see what your limits are.

The pump you get in the gym is due to the pre-wo insulin pushing everything to your muscles. So as long as your pre, intra and post wo nutrition is on point you should see no change in your pump or fullness.

Your job is find out how many carbs do you ACTUALLY NEED pre, intra and post to support your goals (fuel training and aid recovery/replenish glycogen stores) and use the proper amount of insulin to shuttle it. That's how you get your number, not your body weight or some other random number. Again, set your diet then add your insulin to match your requirements.

The point of pre-wo insulin and pre, intra and post wo nutrition is to cram as much nutrition into the depleted, damaged muscle as possible. Once the muscles are full the rest continues to circulate until the body figures out what to do with it.

Adding fat is one of those things BUT your are much less likely to have those carbs and other nutrients store as fat due to the depleted nature of your body from the training.

Now you're morning insulin shot is trying to drive those carbs but there is no depletion in the muscles or a minimal amount so fat storage is the obvious place for it to go.I'd cut that out first and reduce carbs in that area.

Then I'd take a look at the surplus you're creating in your bulk and ensure that it's not too high but still enough to gain since adding too much fat has been an issue in the past. I'd restructure about half of the total daily carbs to the pre, intra and post training where they can be the most effective and less likely to store as fat.

 

[Hawkins]

In other words, don't add carbs just so you can take more insulin. You already said you get fat every time you do this so there's your first clue that you're doing something wrong.

But Milos says....

 

[fodsod]

But Milos says....

Milos has a very special program and training to utilize those carbs. @Wunderpus has seen the exact protocol used by one of his pro clients and I believe he sent it to me also I just can’t locate it at the moment. Either way it’s pretty insane and not what the op is doing.

 

[Wunderpus]

But Milos says....

Milos also has his athletes doing 2x a day training with AM cardio... So, the client is likely burning SOOO many calories and glycogen the insulin is a "must" with the amount of GH they are taking. Plus, Milos has them take most of their carbs around their lifts with creatine, glutamine, EAAs etc.

 

[master.on]

Caloric surplus: Body adds fat
Caloric deficit: Body eats away at fat

Insulin does NOT change this fact.

However, it can help mobilize nutrients to either/both fat and muscle cells. This why timing insulin makes the biggest difference. IME using insulin in and around training (whether exo. insulin or stimulated via carb intake), the gains are mostly muscle. Likely due to the fact the glycogen stores of the muscles are depleted and are prioritized over fat tissue.

Fools cater their diet to their insulin. Cater your insulin to your diet and you will not add fat... If you can "fit" 100g of carbs in your daily macro allotment around your training, use ~10 iu insulin accordingly.

Yes, why use a transport hormone to shuttle nutrients when the muscles are not depleted? Lantus really works best as a basal insulin for most users, anyways... Those GH users using HIGH levels of GH that have blood glucose spikes from the GH can benefit from the lantus, and there are a FEW other examples but they are more complex.

I've seen BB'ers use insulin during the prep just a FEW DAYS before a show and come in lean and peeled. If insulin made you fat.... LOL. Jordan Peters runs insulin during his cut, assuming the diet can "fit" the insulin, as just one example.

Milos also has his athletes doing 2x a day training with AM cardio... So, the client is likely burning SOOO many calories and glycogen the insulin is a "must" with the amount of GH they are taking. Plus, Milos has them take most of their carbs around their lifts with creatine, glutamine, EAAs etc.

Do you think there's a time when insulin doesn't put on too much fat?
i.e. pre/post wo, when waking up, etc.

 

[Wunderpus]

Whenever glycogen stores are at their lowest.... So, intra and post workout.