Adding a different anabolic rather then more test

[onslaughter]

What do y'all think of this comment...epecially
When he says many anabolics were created to bypass the sides that come from using test.


"Can a person run test only and be fine ? Yes.. Most likely.. But as we know there will be a ever increasing need to raise the dosage a bit for continuous gains.., but with that we will need a AI.. don't kid yourself you will have severely elevated ESTRo that will need addressing.. And don't say " yeah but I don't have any sides and I'm not bloated" ., this does not mean that ESTRO is not dangerously out of whack.. Everyone is different in regards to how they feel sides.. But trust your ESTRo will be elevated beyond a proper test/ estro ratio.. With adding a AI comes other sides.. Now compound that to DHT conversation etc and we will have sides..

The other option is to keep test low to avoid any more estro and dht conversion issues and add other compounds that don't add to the problem.. Or are more anabolic than Androgenic.. So maybe eq... Maybe primo.. I like NPP.. Oral turinabol.. In other words compounds that have a lower conversion rate of estro or dht but are still highly anabolic...

Prime example .. Say a person stays at 350 mgs of test.. But want to up the cycle a bit.. Woukd he be better to double the test and then have to add a AI and possibly have elevated BP ect.. Or jyst add something to add to the anaboluc ratio of the cycle.. Say 300 or 400 of primo? Or EQ ( for those who don't suffer anxiety on Eq) .. I personally would feel better physically just adding primo to the test.. It will up the anabolic ratio and I would feel great physically and mentally.. And Id still be able to add some lean tissue. With no AI added or bloat...

Now I know plenty of guys over the years that have done nothing but test and did ok.. But I know plenty more who have decided to keep test low and up the more anabolic compounds and they look and feel great.. We have to remember that many of the anabolics were designed to eliminate the sides of testosterone.. So the argument that test is best because the body recognizes it better may be moot.. With more test comes more issues from the test.. Some of these Anabolics were developed to eliminate those... So which is better?

It will be a very individual thing.. Some can use huge amounts of test and have no issues.. But again when using things like AROMASIN be careful.. There are numerous sides that can rare their ugly head... Many are finding bone loss even when e2 is in decent range with these compounds.. So it may very well be the compound and not the drop in estro causing the bone loss...

So that is why I add to my low test dose other compounds.. I feel better and don't have to add numerous things to fight off numerous things.. But no one knows how test effects you without blood work... Until then it's all guess work."

 

[bob357sig]

I have to agree a bit, test alone just dosent make me feel all that great. I usually feel best with a test bace, and a high anabolic myself. Mind you i don’t have blood tests, just going off feel. I have never ran test above 500 mg week, I like mixing in another compound or two. Test-nan d, test-nan-Eq,test-Eq-Anavar. I loved test-win depo when i was younger, felt great on it.

 

[onslaughter]

I have to agree a bit, test alone just dosent make me feel all that great. I usually feel best with a test bace, and a high anabolic myself. Mind you i don’t have blood tests, just going off feel. I have never ran test above 500 mg week, I like mixing in another compound or two. Test-nan d, test-nan-Eq,test-Eq-Anavar. I loved test-win depo when i was younger, felt great on it.

I was gonna hit 1400mg a week of npp :0

 

[tengtren]

What do y'all think of this comment...epecially
When he says many anabolics were created to bypass the sides that come from using test.


"Can a person run test only and be fine ? Yes.. Most likely.. But as we know there will be a ever increasing need to raise the dosage a bit for continuous gains.., but with that we will need a AI.. don't kid yourself you will have severely elevated ESTRo that will need addressing.. And don't say " yeah but I don't have any sides and I'm not bloated" ., this does not mean that ESTRO is not dangerously out of whack.. Everyone is different in regards to how they feel sides.. But trust your ESTRo will be elevated beyond a proper test/ estro ratio.. With adding a AI comes other sides.. Now compound that to DHT conversation etc and we will have sides..

The other option is to keep test low to avoid any more estro and dht conversion issues and add other compounds that don't add to the problem.. Or are more anabolic than Androgenic.. So maybe eq... Maybe primo.. I like NPP.. Oral turinabol.. In other words compounds that have a lower conversion rate of estro or dht but are still highly anabolic...

Prime example .. Say a person stays at 350 mgs of test.. But want to up the cycle a bit.. Woukd he be better to double the test and then have to add a AI and possibly have elevated BP ect.. Or jyst add something to add to the anaboluc ratio of the cycle.. Say 300 or 400 of primo? Or EQ ( for those who don't suffer anxiety on Eq) .. I personally would feel better physically just adding primo to the test.. It will up the anabolic ratio and I would feel great physically and mentally.. And Id still be able to add some lean tissue. With no AI added or bloat...

Now I know plenty of guys over the years that have done nothing but test and did ok.. But I know plenty more who have decided to keep test low and up the more anabolic compounds and they look and feel great.. We have to remember that many of the anabolics were designed to eliminate the sides of testosterone.. So the argument that test is best because the body recognizes it better may be moot.. With more test comes more issues from the test.. Some of these Anabolics were developed to eliminate those... So which is better?

It will be a very individual thing.. Some can use huge amounts of test and have no issues.. But again when using things like AROMASIN be careful.. There are numerous sides that can rare their ugly head... Many are finding bone loss even when e2 is in decent range with these compounds.. So it may very well be the compound and not the drop in estro causing the bone loss...

So that is why I add to my low test dose other compounds.. I feel better and don't have to add numerous things to fight off numerous things.. But no one knows how test effects you without blood work... Until then it's all guess work."

Bone loss??! Tell me more of this please

And I prefer more compounds over just more Test, but that doesn't mean I won't run my test at 1.5g+ along those others

 

[penche]

What do y'all think of this comment...epecially
When he says many anabolics were created to bypass the sides that come from using test.


"Can a person run test only and be fine ? Yes.. Most likely.. But as we know there will be a ever increasing need to raise the dosage a bit for continuous gains.., but with that we will need a AI.. don't kid yourself you will have severely elevated ESTRo that will need addressing.. And don't say " yeah but I don't have any sides and I'm not bloated" ., this does not mean that ESTRO is not dangerously out of whack.. Everyone is different in regards to how they feel sides.. But trust your ESTRo will be elevated beyond a proper test/ estro ratio.. With adding a AI comes other sides.. Now compound that to DHT conversation etc and we will have sides..

The other option is to keep test low to avoid any more estro and dht conversion issues and add other compounds that don't add to the problem.. Or are more anabolic than Androgenic.. So maybe eq... Maybe primo.. I like NPP.. Oral turinabol.. In other words compounds that have a lower conversion rate of estro or dht but are still highly anabolic...

Prime example .. Say a person stays at 350 mgs of test.. But want to up the cycle a bit.. Woukd he be better to double the test and then have to add a AI and possibly have elevated BP ect.. Or jyst add something to add to the anaboluc ratio of the cycle.. Say 300 or 400 of primo? Or EQ ( for those who don't suffer anxiety on Eq) .. I personally would feel better physically just adding primo to the test.. It will up the anabolic ratio and I would feel great physically and mentally.. And Id still be able to add some lean tissue. With no AI added or bloat...

Now I know plenty of guys over the years that have done nothing but test and did ok.. But I know plenty more who have decided to keep test low and up the more anabolic compounds and they look and feel great.. We have to remember that many of the anabolics were designed to eliminate the sides of testosterone.. So the argument that test is best because the body recognizes it better may be moot.. With more test comes more issues from the test.. Some of these Anabolics were developed to eliminate those... So which is better?

It will be a very individual thing.. Some can use huge amounts of test and have no issues.. But again when using things like AROMASIN be careful.. There are numerous sides that can rare their ugly head... Many are finding bone loss even when e2 is in decent range with these compounds.. So it may very well be the compound and not the drop in estro causing the bone loss...

So that is why I add to my low test dose other compounds.. I feel better and don't have to add numerous things to fight off numerous things.. But no one knows how test effects you without blood work... Until then it's all guess work."

Was there some recent study put out that aromasin or anastrozole caused cancer or some disease? Or is it just bro science that’s been put out? I’d like to see this study that indicates bone loss to prove what is being stated.

I’ve been runnin adex for a long minute about 3 straight years without unusual health problems. My labs are on point lipid panel and metabolic panel. With the exception of draining a pint due to high rbc which is the norm for trt. Labs are good.

 

[penche]

@onslaughter okay I found it.

Aromatase Inhibitors and Bone Loss

Good looking out. In my humble opinion I havnt seen any adverse effects. Although, after reviewing this study I’ll consider cycling my AI on cruise dose unless needed. To say an AI is dangerous, it’s very bad side effects, be careful because you’ll feel like killing yourself. That’s an example of fear mongering. That’s like sayin nandrolone causes heart attacks and Tren kills memory or cause alzheimer's. Well fuck yea it does if you drown yourself in it.

 

[Test_Subject]

I've always been a fan of stacking rather than just jacking up the test.

500 test and 600 mast is a fantastic cycle that generally doesn't require any AI.

 

[Mac11wildcat]

Experiment!

These drugs aren’t studied heavily for our purposes and the effects vary person to person. The two major competing tracks say 1. Test is king the rest is just a bonus 2. Just enough test to keep the nuts happy and then stack your other drugs to your delight.

I’d always done 2. Right now I’m using more test than I ever have and seeing where it takes me. There’s no “right” answer here. Highly individual.

 

[penche]

Experiment!

These drugs aren’t studied heavily for our purposes and the effects vary person to person. The two major competing tracks say 1. Test is king the rest is just a bonus 2. Just enough test to keep the nuts happy and then stack your other drugs to your delight.

I’d always done 2. Right now I’m using more test than I ever have and seeing where it takes me. There’s no “right” answer here. Highly individual.

I’ve been a fan of the 1g of Test also. Contemplated runnin 1.2 again. Are you runnin a log would like to hear your input after few weeks. At the time I didn’t see a big difference from 800 to 1.2grams. Although I’d like to run the experiemnt one more time for added measure.

 

[Mac11wildcat]

Bone loss??! Tell me more of this please

And I prefer more compounds over just more Test, but that doesn't mean I won't run my test at 1.5g+ along those others

Probably a clinical side of aromasin, but in general, especially with orals, we’re taking WAY less than the intended therapeutic dose.

For instance; aromasin is 25mg PER DAY. Not 12.5 EOD or less. The same goes for Anadrol.

 

[Mac11wildcat]

I’ve been a fan of the 1g of Test also. Contemplated runnin 1.2 again. Are you runnin a log would like to hear your input after few weeks. At the time I didn’t see a big difference from 800 to 1.2grams. Although I’d like to run the experiemnt one more time for added measure.

I have a daily log for my offseason and show season. Just search my name or look at the top of the bodybuilding forum.

I’m not over 1g though. I’m king small dose. 750 sust. Hadn’t been over 500 and usually ran 350-400 with more compounds (EQ/tren/mast/primo/etc).

 

[Johnny442]

Was there some recent study put out that aromasin or anastrozole caused cancer or some disease? Or is it just bro science that’s been put out? I’d like to see this study that indicates bone loss to prove what is being stated.

I’ve been runnin adex for a long minute about 3 straight years without unusual health problems. My labs are on point lipid panel and metabolic panel. With the exception of draining a pint due to high rbc which is the norm for trt. Labs are good.

I’ve been running it 3 years as well and it only effects my lipids when I run high test and take more. As for bone loss, by the looks of all the bone spurs on my spine from xrays, I don’t believe it!

 

[Johnny442]

I've always been a fan of stacking rather than just jacking up the test.

500 test and 600 mast is a fantastic cycle that generally doesn't require any AI.

I normally run higher test/ deca or npp and mast. Right now I’m on 250 test 525 tren a 525 mast p, 1.5mg arimidex and it is by far the best I’ve ran!

 

[Dr JIM]

Probably a clinical side of aromasin, but in general, especially with orals, we’re taking WAY less than the intended therapeutic dose.

For instance; aromasin is 25mg PER DAY. Not 12.5 EOD or less. The same goes for Anadrol.

And that therapeutic dose is
for postmenopausal females
whose E-2 is LESS THAN 40 pg/ml.

Yep the same level as an adult male.

Yet some continue to believe
AIs, in what amounts to homeopathic dosages, is controlling their E-2 level.

NOT!

It’s unfortunate a large portion of
cyclists have fallen prey to bro
science, bc E-2 levels fluctuate
significant during a cycle and
AIs are incapable of moderating
these change at the dosages most are using.

Experiment!

You bet check YOUR E-2 level every 2-3 DAYS during a cycle
if you want proof.

Jim

 

[Dr JIM]

I should also mention many are obviously overlooking their bloat
and it’s influence on BP.

IME many folk with chronically elevated E-2 are also running high BPs and their BP is much more difficult to control/normalize in spite of two and sometimes three antihypertensive meds.

 

[penche]

I should also mention many are obviously overlooking their bloat
and it’s influence on BP.

IME many folk with chronically elevated E-2 are also running high BPs and their BP is much more difficult to control/normalize in spite of two and sometimes three antihypertensive meds.

I was just talking to a friend about bloat as well In regards to an AI. I can’t stand myself with the blowfish look. More so the negative effects high estrogen has on the prostate gland, here is the study.

Estrogen action and prostate cancer

“Early work on the hormonal basis of prostate cancer focused on the role of androgens, but more recently estrogens have been implicated as potential agents in the development and progression of prostate cancer.”

Good to still see you around @Dr JIM

 

[Dead]

fuck u mean bone loss. test literally helps with shit like osteoporosis

secondly theres an article somewhere on this website that stacking compounds is more effective than upping the dose

 

[Dr JIM]

I was just talking to a friend about bloat as well In regards to an AI. I can’t stand myself with the blowfish look. More so the negative effects high estrogen has on the prostate gland, here is the study.

Estrogen action and prostate cancer



Good to still see you around @Dr JIM

IMO take home point of this article should be the CHRONIC exposure to abnormally high or
low hormonal levels does have consequences. (Much like chronically high or low blood sugar levels has consequences, ask any diabetic )

However bc cycling AAS often results AVUTE changes in E-2, it
would be a far leap to extrapolate this data to AAS users.

Perhaps that’s why, I’ve yet to see ANY evidence associating the use of AAS w prostatic CA.

And if a high E-2 was a risk factor for P-CA in cyclists, I suspect the association would have become
apparent by now since AIs were not available until the 1990s, (Anastrozole the first AI was FDA approved in 1995) and a higher incidence of P-CA would have been noted in B.B. from Arnie’s era.

Jim

 

[Dr JIM]

I should also mention many are obviously overlooking their bloat
and it’s influence on BP.

IME many folk with chronically elevated E-2 are also running high BPs and their BP is much more difficult to control/normalize in spite of two and sometimes three antihypertensive meds.

What to do?

Lower the dose of aromatizable AAS or add a anabolic that does not aromatize, but adding an AI is ill advised bc such an approach invariably results in a cat and mouse game of chasing unreliable e-2 levels.

 

[The Terminator]

What to do?

Lower the dose of aromatizable AAS or add a anabolic that does not aromatize, but adding an AI is ill advised bc such an approach invariably results in a cat and mouse game of chasing unreliable e-2 levels.

Why do the trt clinics rx AI’s, is it different when they are on doses that keep them within range or..?