WTF is wrong with my elbows?

[OnTheRize]

Spokeonawheel wrote posted a thread recently that I identify with but I didn't want to hijack his thread. I seem to have similar but different issues arising.

I've noticed that tendonitis seems to be associated with pulling movements but I'm getting elbow pain from pushing movements.

I had to throw out a bunch of compound lifts recently do to a lower back reinjury and have been focusing on chest for the last 3 months.
I noticed the elbow pain while doing flat bench D-bell presses and swapped to flat b-bell presses and noticed immediate relief...which seems odd.
I also discovered that most tricep exercises seem to cause pain as well i.e. skullcrushers.

Recently posted a thread to evaluate my current training program for upper body hypertrophy and got some good feedback...my volume is way too high! Going to take some time out of the gym and try to let my elbows heal up a bit.

Anyone else get elbow pain from d-bell push exercises, what's this all about? Tendonitis is usually a pull routine associated condition right? Any ideas on what's going on and how to correct it?

 

[koolio]

Spokeonawheel wrote posted a thread recently that I identify with but I didn't want to hijack his thread. I seem to have similar but different issues arising.

I've noticed that tendonitis seems to be associated with pulling movements but I'm getting elbow pain from pushing movements.

I had to throw out a bunch of compound lifts recently do to a lower back reinjury and have been focusing on chest for the last 3 months.
I noticed the elbow pain while doing flat bench D-bell presses and swapped to flat b-bell presses and noticed immediate relief...which seems odd.
I also discovered that most tricep exercises seem to cause pain as well i.e. skullcrushers.

Recently posted a thread to evaluate my current training program for upper body hypertrophy and got some good feedback...my volume is way too high! Going to take some time out of the gym and try to let my elbows heal up a bit.

Anyone else get elbow pain from d-bell push exercises, what's this all about? Tendonitis is usually a pull routine associated condition right? Any ideas on what's going on and how to correct it?

 

[koolio]

Back in the early 80s my tricep tendons hurt 2 weeks a year...now they don't hurt 2 weeks a year...I eventually ruptured a tricep tendons in 2007 and had surgery...the doctor told me I had 100s of micro tears, fluid filled sacs and the tendons were were yellowish indicating they had been messed up for decades...20 years ago I could bench 450 raw....this morning I benched 295...I just turned 60...ironically the only tricep exercise I can do pain free is barbell extensions with 95 pounds...

 

[Logan44551]

My elbows bother me on barbell push movements. Switched to dumbbells and problem is pretty much gone. Every once and awhile I'll get a flare up, seems worse on cycle for me. Not sure what's causing it.

 

[OnTheRize]

Back in the early 80s my tricep tendons hurt 2 weeks a year...now they don't hurt 2 weeks a year...I eventually ruptured a tricep tendons in 2007 and had surgery...the doctor told me I had 100s of micro tears, fluid filled sacs and the tendons were were yellowish indicating they had been messed up for decades...20 years ago I could bench 450 raw....this morning I benched 295...I just turned 60...ironically the only tricep exercise I can do pain free is barbell extensions with 95 pounds...

Jesus, you went through the ringer! I'm really hoping to avoid surgery down the road. How long before the tricep surgery in 2007 did you realize there was an issue? What kind of movements caused pain during the time prior to surgery? Seems like my strongest muscle groups always suffer the greatest amount of injuries.

 

[OnTheRize]

My elbows bother me on barbell push movements. Switched to dumbbells and problem is pretty much gone. Every once and awhile I'll get a flare up, seems worse on cycle for me. Not sure what's causing it.

Yeah, if pull movements are associated with tennis elbow what the hell are push movements associated with, golf elbow?
Weird that aside from reversing our switches between d-bell and b-bell presses our issues are the same.
I've heard that moving from a b-bell press to a d-bell press can alleviate pain which is why I'm particularly stumped about my elbow pain since the reverse is true for myself.

Wondering if I should just take 2 weeks away from the gym or reload for awhile to try and maintain muscle stimulus.

 

[johntt44]

I've had both tennis and golf elbow. They were both from pulling movements.

 

[Eman]

Do you still do squats?

Just about every individual I've encountered has dealt with elbow issues due to hand placement during squats, all stemming from poor shoulder mobility.

Regardless of whether you do squats, I would still try to work on shoulder mobility. Most issues that lifters have with s particular joint are due to a lack of mobility somewhere else. Shoulders affecting elbows, hamstrings affecting knees or hips, ankles affecting knees and back. Everything is connected... I always thought I had bad knees, I have tight hamstrings.

 

[Logan44551]

Do you still do squats?

Just about every individual I've encountered has dealt with elbow issues due to hand placement during squats, all stemming from poor shoulder mobility.

Regardless of whether you do squats, I would still try to work on shoulder mobility. Most issues that lifters have with s particular joint are due to a lack of mobility somewhere else. Shoulders affecting elbows, hamstrings affecting knees or hips, ankles affecting knees and back. Everything is connected... I always thought I had bad knees, I have tight hamstrings.

Good to see you posting @Eman

 

[Perrin Aybara]

Low bar back squat causes me more elbow issues than anything and I end up feeling it the most later with pressing movements.

 

[OnTheRize]

Do you still do squats?

Just about every individual I've encountered has dealt with elbow issues due to hand placement during squats, all stemming from poor shoulder mobility.

Regardless of whether you do squats, I would still try to work on shoulder mobility. Most issues that lifters have with s particular joint are due to a lack of mobility somewhere else. Shoulders affecting elbows, hamstrings affecting knees or hips, ankles affecting knees and back. Everything is connected... I always thought I had bad knees, I have tight hamstrings.

Great response sir! I am of the mind that everything is connected as well.
I don't know if it's a shoulder issue. I had a torn labrum/supraspinatus partial thickness tear repair surgery in my right shoulder over 2 years ago. Ever since then I've done a lot of facepulls, internal/external cable rotators, wall angels, late night stretches, etc, to keep my shoulders healthy.
With my lumbar as messed up as it is I stick to bulgarian splits, goblet, and landmine squats with focus on good form and execution.
You got me thinking though...what I have gotten away from is stretching my triceps out much...wonder if this factors in?

 

[T-Bagger]

Spokeonawheel wrote posted a thread recently that I identify with but I didn't want to hijack his thread. I seem to have similar but different issues arising.

I've noticed that tendonitis seems to be associated with pulling movements but I'm getting elbow pain from pushing movements.

I had to throw out a bunch of compound lifts recently do to a lower back reinjury and have been focusing on chest for the last 3 months.
I noticed the elbow pain while doing flat bench D-bell presses and swapped to flat b-bell presses and noticed immediate relief...which seems odd.
I also discovered that most tricep exercises seem to cause pain as well i.e. skullcrushers.

Recently posted a thread to evaluate my current training program for upper body hypertrophy and got some good feedback...my volume is way too high! Going to take some time out of the gym and try to let my elbows heal up a bit.

Anyone else get elbow pain from d-bell push exercises, what's this all about? Tendonitis is usually a pull routine associated condition right? Any ideas on what's going on and how to correct it?

Chances are your muscle and strength is increasing way faster than your tendons are growing/stretching. I suffer from it and just have to work around it. I got to the point where I couldn’t do any type of DB curls and just worked around it by switching to 21’s and T-Rex’s. Get some cold compression sleeves and if you have to keep your weight low to allow for the tendon growth to catch up, do it - your elbows will thank you.

 

[TideGear]

Do you still do squats?

Just about every individual I've encountered has dealt with elbow issues due to hand placement during squats, all stemming from poor shoulder mobility.

Regardless of whether you do squats, I would still try to work on shoulder mobility. Most issues that lifters have with s particular joint are due to a lack of mobility somewhere else. Shoulders affecting elbows, hamstrings affecting knees or hips, ankles affecting knees and back. Everything is connected... I always thought I had bad knees, I have tight hamstrings.

Did your knee pain go away with stretching?

 

[Eman]

Did your knee pain go away with stretching?

It most certainly did.

I have struggled with knee problems for years. I had knee surgery at 19 on my left knee due to pain and I avoided surgery on the right but got a type of cortisone injection a few years back. Things were getting worse... I looked like an old man going up and down stairs. I grew concerned that I was getting to a point that I was not going to be able to do stairs. I was also struggling with elbow pain, and it was significant pain.

Saw an ortho, got scanned... Expected him to tell me surgery was needed. He came in and told me, "your knees look great, very healthy!" Wtf, I thought... He recommended I see a PT. The PT ran me through drills and said there was a lot of mobility issues we could work on. I also did a lot of graston therapy with him.

Overall, doing a lot of mobility work, including posterior chain work, was key. I did mobility/stretching work daily, foam rolling, sauna/hot tub/contrast baths, graston, voodoo floss plus a dedicated day each week for stretching for about 45min. When I started, squatting 135lbs was excruciating... After doing this for a few months I was able to perform reps/sets with 405 completely pain free. It was really a special feeling to rack the bar and feel good.

TL;DR: mobility work and stretching is vastly underutilized by so many lifers to their own demise. Same goes for cardio.

 

[rubisean]

Upright rowing and pull ups cause my tennis elbow to flare up.

 

[LeoTC]

Do you still do squats?

Just about every individual I've encountered has dealt with elbow issues due to hand placement during squats, all stemming from poor shoulder mobility.

Regardless of whether you do squats, I would still try to work on shoulder mobility. Most issues that lifters have with s particular joint are due to a lack of mobility somewhere else. Shoulders affecting elbows, hamstrings affecting knees or hips, ankles affecting knees and back. Everything is connected... I always thought I had bad knees, I have tight hamstrings.

Squat day is right after bench day, and this is super on point.

I'll get under the bar and about die.

Great way to demobilize the shoulders though - lay roll out your T-spine, then bring your arms overhead until your hands are on the floor.

You can start with the roller at your mid back, and gradually roll down to create a greater stretch. Use an empty bar or light dumbbells to assist.

Massive MASSIVE improvement in about 5-10 minutes.

 

[Eman]

Upright rowing and pull ups cause my tennis elbow to flare up.

Switch the barbell to dumbbells for upright rows. For pullups, use the same handles you'd use for crossovers... Hook them to the bar and do pull ups to your heart's content.

Locking your hand position is most likely the issue there. I've found ways to adjust my grip but it's easier to use implements that let your wrists move more freely.

 

[Eman]

Squat day is right after bench day, and this is super on point.

I'll get under the bar and about die.

Great way to demobilize the shoulders though - lay roll out your T-spine, then bring your arms overhead until your hands are on the floor.

You can start with the roller at your mid back, and gradually roll down to create a greater stretch. Use an empty bar or light dumbbells to assist.

Massive MASSIVE improvement in about 5-10 minutes.

That sounds interesting... Might try. My shoulder mobility never did improve much but I didn't work at it very much, admittedly. I'm more focused on hips now.

Quinn Henoch has some very good videos for shoulders and squats.

Kelly Starrett is really good also but he can be tough to follow unless you are watching a video and paying attention to exactly what he's having an athlete do. I have his book, "becoming the supple leopard" and it's good but difficult to follow at times, you have to almost study it rather than read it. I think I have a digital copy of the book if anyone has a serious interest, you can PM me your email and I'll gift it.

 

[koolio]

Jesus, you went through the ringer! I'm really hoping to avoid surgery down the road. How long before the tricep surgery in 2007 did you realize there was an issue? What kind of movements caused pain during the time prior to surgery? Seems like my strongest muscle groups always suffer the greatest amount of injuries.

I had started prolotherapy injections around 2005...they did not help...I remember going to a bill Crawford bench press seminar in Cleveland in 2005...my elbows felt like they were being hit with a sledge hammer and blow torch at the same time...washing my hair was torturous...I was so stupid that I started to inject lidocaine into the tendons prior to workouts ....once it starts it never gets better if you train aggressively....funny, the left tendon ruptured due to a car accident...

 

[rubisean]

Switch the barbell to dumbbells for upright rows. For pullups, use the same handles you'd use for crossovers... Hook them to the bar and do pull ups to your heart's content.

Locking your hand position is most likely the issue there. I've found ways to adjust my grip but it's easier to use implements that let your wrists move more freely.

Thanks