There are some excellent systems in place in a few European countries.
The Nordic ones, amongst others.
I'm okay with the concept of public healthcare, but specifically in Ontario, it's an absolute disaster.
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
"free healthcare"
- Thread starter rfan2020
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There are some excellent systems in place in a few European countries.
The Nordic ones, amongst others.
I'm okay with the concept of public healthcare, but specifically in Ontario, it's an absolute disaster.
David44
Subscriber
In germany you pay a percentage of your salary.
I am not good at explaining so i will try this
In germany we have diffrent tax classes
The majority is tax class 1
Tax class 1works like this
If you make 3000 euros a month
You pay 31%tax for everthing, in this 31% is everything included like pension insurance, healthcare etc.
Basically you paying 90-100€ for healthcare
If you break a leg or a arm, you can visit te hospital, using the ambulance and te whole treatment is for free.
I’d like to know why the US citizens pay so much for basic healthcare. You pay a fraction of that cost anywhere else.
hint: it’s not because we have better health case or better meds or better doctors.
hint: it’s not because we have better health case or better meds or better doctors.
BigDaddyV
Member
Well like everything else in America, it’s an industry. A billion dollar industry at that. We are REQUIRED to have health care so they can charge us whatever they want and what are we gonna do about it?
You need healthcare. That’s more accurate. Everyone does. Everyone. But that’s irrelevant
it’s just that it’s a trillion dollar industry considering hospitals, big pharma, and insurance companies. Congress has made it legal to fleece us citizens.
other countries care more about citizens than corporations. Not here in the US
it’s just that it’s a trillion dollar industry considering hospitals, big pharma, and insurance companies. Congress has made it legal to fleece us citizens.
other countries care more about citizens than corporations. Not here in the US
BigDaddyV
Member
The last time I went to the doctor I had to get a surgery and tried to refuse the pain medication. They talked me into taking it, whatever. Then I asked if they could use a smaller needle and a different injection site because I know the sites I prefer, the nurse basically told me im the patient and should fuck off. You can inject dilaudid with an insulin syringe and this bitch is poking me with a 23gague.
I paid for that fucking service.
BigDaddyV
Member
Well put.
Corporations>Citizens
antifa
Banned
In order to get free healthcare you must fit into much narrower demographics than that.
A person like myself that is retired before 50, makes his money under the table with cash only has technically zero reportable income. The government doesn't know I exist, I stash my money in accounts and investments that I never access.
You'll never get free healthcare doing what I do. Free healthcare is for those that technically work, but have very low incomes $12,000-24,000, if you fit into that range you can get $25/month Obamacare, if you don't you're not gonna get dick.
A single white man that is capable of work, you can forget it, you won't get anything for free in this country and that's fine. If you have a disability it's possible to access free care, but the government will ride your ass all the way if you ask for a handout and you're not a women or shitting out kids everywhere.
BigDaddyV
Member
Agreed. There was a point in time I sincerely needed help. I was in the process of turning my life around but I was starting at 0 and being a single white male they basically just laughed at me lol
You must not get free healthcare. You pay no taxes.
antifa
Banned
As someone that spent 25 years working in healthcare the reason your care cost so much is to support out of touch salaries and wages.
The wage explosion in the past ten years, especially the past five has far outpaced what most people earn.
A nurse making $50-90/hr, add in overtime, weekend shifts and she/he is making a shitload of money.
Working in the lab meant wages that actually were very competitive with nursing when I first started more than two decades ago, but something happened to the nursing profession where wages skyrocketed even when those of us in the lab had more education. Even today a supervisor in a lab might make $35/hr if they're lucky and that includes taking home piles of paperwork every night to do off the clock to prepare for inspections.
At this point there is no way to lower wages of these workers, it's out of control and it must be paid for.
You'd have to create an alternative universe if you wanted to control costs, too many people demand high salaries and many of these workers are sitting on their ass or delivering low quality care.
Moral of the story is to be mindful of your health, don't fuck up, pay attention to what you're doing and hopefully you can avoid a healthcare system that often does more harm than good.
As for socialized medicine, honestly Europe has good quality care, I've seen Americans that visited various places like France and got themselves into trouble, breaking a leg and they walk off after surgery and medications for $25. It's hard to argue with that, but I also know they're healthcare workers don't make what ours do, but they do get access to free higher education so that balances out.
It all comes down to priorities, many of us males will go through our entire lives without even going to the doctor until end of life ready to die. At almost 50, I've only been to the doctor maybe 5 times for minor things. I tend to solve my own problems, give my body time to heal or do like most men, suffer in silence.
The wage explosion in the past ten years, especially the past five has far outpaced what most people earn.
A nurse making $50-90/hr, add in overtime, weekend shifts and she/he is making a shitload of money.
Working in the lab meant wages that actually were very competitive with nursing when I first started more than two decades ago, but something happened to the nursing profession where wages skyrocketed even when those of us in the lab had more education. Even today a supervisor in a lab might make $35/hr if they're lucky and that includes taking home piles of paperwork every night to do off the clock to prepare for inspections.
At this point there is no way to lower wages of these workers, it's out of control and it must be paid for.
You'd have to create an alternative universe if you wanted to control costs, too many people demand high salaries and many of these workers are sitting on their ass or delivering low quality care.
Moral of the story is to be mindful of your health, don't fuck up, pay attention to what you're doing and hopefully you can avoid a healthcare system that often does more harm than good.
As for socialized medicine, honestly Europe has good quality care, I've seen Americans that visited various places like France and got themselves into trouble, breaking a leg and they walk off after surgery and medications for $25. It's hard to argue with that, but I also know they're healthcare workers don't make what ours do, but they do get access to free higher education so that balances out.
It all comes down to priorities, many of us males will go through our entire lives without even going to the doctor until end of life ready to die. At almost 50, I've only been to the doctor maybe 5 times for minor things. I tend to solve my own problems, give my body time to heal or do like most men, suffer in silence.
antifa
Banned
Sure the government doesn't know how much I earn, where my money is. I go to great lengths to make sure I don't exist as far as the government is concerned.
I see no reason to contribute to the government as it is right now, it's a resource hog.
We'd all be better off if we just let the system starve, restructure our society away from debt and credit, go back to reality and truth.
No government cares about people. id assume the reason its so expensive here is the poor. everyone has to pay for them too, they don't pay into it.
I doubt the nordic countries has as many poor lazy people as america. does Any country? most non-americas I know grew up with a father not a broken home.
we have a horrible culture
This.
People ask me why I don't love my country, my country doesn't support people like me as stated above. I am an individualist, no love for Amy flag.
antifa
Banned
Poor people are a drain on the resources, but most of that care is for women or women with children. Most guys that are broke don't show up at the hospital unless it's a critical emergency and even then they'll often leave ama when the doctor or nurse turns their back.
It wouldn't matter if everyone had cadillac insurance or not, providers will bill the maximum amount they can and gobble up whatever is possible.
To me it's a simple. Total transparency in pricing for each service. You present a menu of services and prices and if you agree you proceed, if you don't then you leave. The current set up is like going to diner and ordering a meal before you see the prices only to find out that side dish you ordered cost you $10,000 dollars. No other business could operate the way our healthcare system does and not be considered a predatory.
It wouldn't matter if everyone had cadillac insurance or not, providers will bill the maximum amount they can and gobble up whatever is possible.
To me it's a simple. Total transparency in pricing for each service. You present a menu of services and prices and if you agree you proceed, if you don't then you leave. The current set up is like going to diner and ordering a meal before you see the prices only to find out that side dish you ordered cost you $10,000 dollars. No other business could operate the way our healthcare system does and not be considered a predatory.
antifa
Banned
Many people rail against those without insurance, they wonder why they don't just get it through their employers. Never stopping to consider that these costs are passed on and they hit your potential wealth hard over a lifetime of work. If one sat down and figured $6000 a year is going to insurance one way or the other, you quickly realize that this amount of money cost many people their potential retirements.
Should someone pay for something if they don't use it. Lets be honest as men. If I never use my insurance and it cost me $6000 a year through lost income, this is kind of stupid. It would be one thing if insurance refunded say 90% of what you paid each year if you didn't use it at all, but that's not the case. Why else would these insurance companies offer these services if they weren't making huge profits, we have Insurance CEOs that can easily make $200+ million a year. If this isn't a scam I don't know what is. This is money that you're just pissing away to support an industry that shouldn't even exist.
That's the problem with our economy, it's grossly inefficient with a parasite class robbing the working class. Never mind the poor seeking free services, take a look at that rich scumbag that is taking his cut from your paycheck week after week like a leech sucking you dry, you don't realize what he's done until you add up what you lost over 35 years of work.
Should someone pay for something if they don't use it. Lets be honest as men. If I never use my insurance and it cost me $6000 a year through lost income, this is kind of stupid. It would be one thing if insurance refunded say 90% of what you paid each year if you didn't use it at all, but that's not the case. Why else would these insurance companies offer these services if they weren't making huge profits, we have Insurance CEOs that can easily make $200+ million a year. If this isn't a scam I don't know what is. This is money that you're just pissing away to support an industry that shouldn't even exist.
That's the problem with our economy, it's grossly inefficient with a parasite class robbing the working class. Never mind the poor seeking free services, take a look at that rich scumbag that is taking his cut from your paycheck week after week like a leech sucking you dry, you don't realize what he's done until you add up what you lost over 35 years of work.
BigDaddyV
Member
You’re getting me hyped up to fight a revolution.
appropriate username, indeed
Zebedee
Member
Here's an even simpler solution.
Demand you get what you're already paying for through your general taxes, which could easily give everyone free, universal healthcare AND a tax cut, if managed right.
Or, just a massive tax cut.
Sound crazy?
The UK has free, comprehensive universal healthcare for everyone (NHS), funded through general taxes. No if's or but's - if you're a British citizen, you're covered.
The UK government spends just 2/3rds of taxpayers money on that system per person as the US government spends of your tax dollars on your "thanks for the cash...now fuck off & buy a plan" system.
& no, it isn't a totally shit, inefficient system - UK NHS outcomes are roughly on a par with the US. In some areas you're slightly ahead, in others the UK NHS is slightly ahead.
It's not perfect - pretty much would be though if we had the extra 50% of money to spend per person, like your government has to play with.
End of the day, it's your country, it's a democracy, so do what you like. Personally I think free healthcare should be a fundamental right for all citizens, but I'm a Brit & that's our culture, not yours & it's your country.
Ok, so do you don't want to pay for Jobless Joe's healthcare within an NHS style system - your call. But if so, demand those robbing cunts (both Dems & Reps) give you a fucking tax cut because they sure as shit aren't spending your tax dollars on taxpayers. Goes straight into the pockets of the elites.
So much for "drain the swamp", huh? Still, "who knew healthcare could be so complicated?" - cunt.
This is a link to the BBCs multimedia on the National Health Service. Very informative and historical. Seems as though the Europeans feel Healthcare is more of a Human Right, whereas Americans feel it should be based upon Free Enterprise with a Hint of Government intervention. Sure hope someone much smarter than I figures all this out.
The Birth of the NHS
The Birth of the NHS
Zebedee
Member
Yeah, the founding of the NHS is a byproduct of WW2.
Britain is not a socialist country, it's had right-wing Conservative governments (our version of your Republicans) for 28 of the last 41 years (other 13 was centrist) & has a capitalist economy.
But regardless, free universal healthcare is seen as a fundamental human right by the vast majority & most Brits are extremely proud of & protective of the NHS.
UK & US have different cultures at times, despite our shared language.
Like I say though, what you do in your country is your business.
antifa
Banned
For me it's simple. If this country doesn't want to figure out a way to bring down astronomical costs of healthcare, then there should be a very easy process by which all citizens can write off medical costs. There should be no legal means by which a care provider can confiscate your wealth.
It can't be just one way, where the providers have the right to ruin lives. Either they provide total transparency up front or you have the option to back out of payment once they perform services, because they took that risk of not informing the patient.
Lets say I mow your lawn without telling how much it cost, I hand you a bill for $10,000. You have the right to tell me to fuck off, imo.
It can't be just one way, where the providers have the right to ruin lives. Either they provide total transparency up front or you have the option to back out of payment once they perform services, because they took that risk of not informing the patient.
Lets say I mow your lawn without telling how much it cost, I hand you a bill for $10,000. You have the right to tell me to fuck off, imo.
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