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Russia begins invasion of Ukraine
- Thread starter Fifap94
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Why fight so hard then?
Hey, if another country comes in and removes your leader that you all wanted there and causes you to go to war with your neighbor, how hard are you going to fight in that war? If the Ukrainians didn't really want to impeach their leader, didn't really want Poroshenko and then Zelensky and wanted a pro-Russian govt, why fight so hard?
It is funny. Because MacGregor is not somebody to be believed or reposted at all at this point. Even Napolitano laughed. And I know your heart truly bleeds for the Ukrainians and you're totally against foreign interventions, but this is actually a good one for the US here.
Even if Ukraine is routed tomorrow, the US still comes out on top here with a very weak Russia and very strong NATO. But there's every indication that Ukraine can supply the troops and NATO can supply the equipment for years. Putin could be removed, Chechnya and other republics could leave, and so on.
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Why fight so hard is the question?
Because in thier minds they're fighting for the thier survival.
The same reason the Nazis fought so hard, and the Viet Kong, the Taliban, the North Koreans Etc.
If you were to ask a military volunteer of nearly any nation, anywhere in the world what they were fighting for, they'll likely all tell you the same thing going in.
Coming out is different story.
Most once they've come out no longer hold the same illusion.
The real question is not why their fighting so hard, that's simple, the real question is what are they really fighting for?
That answer is simple too.
They're fighting so that Cargill and general Mills can sell ukranian wheat and cattle and shell and Exxon can sell ukranian gas.
Because the possibility a sovereign and independent ukranian people went down during the 2014 coup and was completely lost the second they took money from the cartel on the Potomac to wage civil war against the ethnic Russian people in the east of Ukraine.
The real victims here are the ukranian people and they've already lost, thier country has been pounded into rubble large parts are now occupied probably permanently and they're now helplessly in debt to the most corrupt regime on the planet to the degree they'll never see any meaningful independence again.
So that's why they fight so hard.
Unfortunately that's not what they're fighting for.
In other words, you're cheering on the empirically motivated expansion of the globalist billionaire Cartel on the Potomac.
So long America, the free Republic, hello to the new world order. The one world government of the holy liberal empire
Congratulations
That's right. Ukraine doesn't want to be part of Russia, and they didn't want a pro-Russian leader either. They border Poland and they are becoming increasingly Westernized.
No we're not the ones expanding our borders here Russia is. And this isn't the first time, he did that in Chechnya and Georgia. We are expanding our influence, protecting our interests, and there's nothing wrong with that. But don't forget this war started with the invasion, Russia was never threatened, and Russia can stop it at ay time by going home.
Ideally, Putin is removed and Ukraine is more willing to settle a truce with the new President, hopefully not a dictator this time. And NATO is then willing to negotiate a peace/security pact with Russia and Ukraine. The EU rebuilds Ukraine. Everyone wins here actually, except for the people who had to die to make it happen. Or Russia could actually collapse and then the troops go home.
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Deleted member 123722
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I'm the kind of person that if you lie to me once, I don't trust you anymore. And you cannot possibly believe that govt hasn't lie to you about war, and it would be completely naïve to believe they aren't about this one, when they have been caught already.
But you'll believe what you want, like most people, but time will tell just like Iraq and every other lie.
And then will you admit you were duped or double down?
Sadly, most people will do the latter.
But you'll believe what you want, like most people, but time will tell just like Iraq and every other lie.
And then will you admit you were duped or double down?
Sadly, most people will do the latter.
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Actually no, you're obviously full of shit here once again. At least part of Ukraine prefers to be part of Russia given the alternative, hence the civil war triggered by the 2014 US state department coup.
And virtually all Ukraine would prefer to be an independent nation governed by themselves and with their own national self determination.
Which is what they're all really fighting for on both sides.
Sadly, because of the powers that be, and the ignorance that supports them, no Ukranians of either side will get any of that for which they fight for.
That was taken from them by the US state department in 2014.
We've expended our borders all over the world, and right now we're the world empire fighting one of the last nation states for control of Ukraine.
In both instances of Georgia and Chechnya US state department color revolutions brought in the conflict.
Look up the rose revolution in Georgia where we installed Saakashvili a straight up US state department asset as the president who would later start a war with Russia over South ossetia. Look familiar?
I suppose you don't see anything wrong with it, when it's your side doing it.
Utter horseshit. We've been over this and over this. Russia was threatened and provoked. Thier warnings not heeded
Cut the bullshit here.
So can Ukrain
Ideally to who? He has widespread support in Russia. Even his harshest critics don't deny that?
Ideally to who? The US state department
What did anybody "win"?
Thousands have died and will continue to die. Economic conditions have driven poverty and suffering on a massive scale.
WHO THE FUCK WINS ANYTHING?
Ukranian people will live in a puppet state owned by US corporations and they'll be working the fields and farms they used to own for western bankers.
Who the fuck wins?
This @hometeam guy is ate up with CNN propaganda.
He thinks this is some kind of holy war for the Angels of light against his Boogeyman.
He won't admit he said any of this stupid shit five years from now
You're still not getting it. This is not just a CNN thing. This is both a Fox News thing and a CNN thing. Here's a Fox News reporter on it and she's specifically talking about Douglas McGregor and Putin:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgujpjtUfnI
I think the only one over at Fox News not supporting the Ukraine intervention and not against Putin is Tucker Carlson, and he's taking a lot of heat for it. I actually don't watch either channel, and haven't voted in the last 3 Presidential elections. But after seeing what McCain, Romney, Graham, McConnell and Bush have said how can you call this CNN propaganda? Both sides are united on this.
I'm talking about Ukraine overall, like 95% of it... the 700,000 Ukrainians suited up for war. They don't want to be part of Russia, and didn't want a pro-Russia leader. Nobody forced them to protest and riot. Nobody forced their parliament to impeach. And Zelensky was voted in 5 years later anyway. And that's why they're fighting so hard.
Our borders have been the same since Hawaii joined the union in 1959. You're confusing territorial expansion with expanding a sphere of influence.
Yes. Because anyone around there who doesn't want to be a part of Russia or have a pro-Russian govt must be controlled by the US
Ideally, Putin is removed and Ukraine is more willing to settle a truce with the new President, hopefully not a dictator this time. And NATO is then willing to negotiate a peace/security pact with Russia and Ukraine. The EU rebuilds Ukraine.
Russia is free of their dictator for life. You have to remember Russia doesn't have free speech or freedom of press. No leader in a free society has widespread support for 30+ years. He has removed his rivals and jailed those who oppose. Hopefully they install a democracy with leaders friendly to the West.
This will be Ukraine's "War of Independance." Sure, a lot of people died but they have their own country. A free one. We lost 400,000 in WWII, doesn't mean we didn't win anything.
The EU will rebuild Ukraine. NATO, Russia, and Ukraine will come to a security arrangement. The US doesn't have to worry about a hostile military competitor.
Well I think the US govt has been clear that it's too early to tell how this ends. Ukraine had some momentum so Putin had to come up with some more troops, plug some holes. They still have logistics, equipment, command and morale issues. Putin is hoping Europe will suffer from gas prices over the winter and force Ukrainians to the negotiation table, is also threatening nukes. And Ukraine has no shortage of people or equipment at this time, no shortage of will to fight, no shortage of people o train them. We spent $40 billion a year in Afghanistan and still could fight a war in Iraq and deter China at the same time.
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The Washington Cartel is always united when it comes to war for profit schemes. I keep on telling you that McCain, Romney Graham and bunch are part of the establishment.
But you don't listen or understand
Of course the establishment is united on Ukraine aid.
Why the fuck do you think that is?
Horseshit again.
More of your bullshit propoganda, Ill informed and completely ignorant.
If all ukranians didn't want to be part of Russia,then why in did they succeed?
Just more of your lies and bullshit
If they don't want to part of Russia, then why are they literally fighting against Ukraine for the past 8 years to join Russia?
More of your lies and bullshit
What percent of Ukrainians are Russian?
None. As the old Chinese saying goes “anyone can give an answer, but it takes a person to ask the right question.” The question itself is flawed. Ukrainians are Ukrainians, Russians are Russians. It’s like asking “what percentage of English people are French?” The correct question would be “What percentage of the Ukrainian population is ethnically Russian in origin?” They would still be citizens o
What percentage of Russians and Ukrainians are related?
What percent of Ukrainians are part Russian?
What percentage of Ukrainians want to join Russia?
What percent of Russia is Ukrainian?
What percent of the Ukrainian military is Russian?
In according with Ukrainian statistics less than 20%. In according with common sense - more than 80% as majority of people in Ukraine speak or pure Russian or Russian with addition of several Ukrainian words. The official version of Ukrainian is spoken by maximum 20% of population. Unfortunately this part of population (mostly Western Ukrainians) are very aggressive and supported by West and especially by USA.
Ukrainian/Russian who lived in Ukraine for too long and no longer sees any difference between Russian and Ukrainian, can sincerely call himself a Ukrainian and vote for the reunification of Crimea with Russia.
At the referendum on reunification with the Russian Federation, of the 2.3 million Crimean people, about 95% voted "for Russia" at a turnout of about 85%, and therefore only 1.85 million voted - this means that at least 1.85 million ethical Russians lived in Crimea. Not everyone who wanted could come and vote in favor of Russia, so the number of ethnic Russians in Crimea can be estimated at 1.9 million people.
That is, practically all those Crimeans who call themselves either Russian or Ukrainian behave like Russians
In Donbass region this situation has reached a maximum of inconsistency: people who consider themselves Ukrainians vote for the creation of independent DNR and LNR, and then fight against the army of Ukraine!
Let us calculate how many Russians lived in Donbass region. In accordance with the all-Ukrainian census of 2001:
♦ Donetsk Oblast — 1.8 million Russians out of a total of 4.8 million;
♦ Luhansk region - 1.0 million Russians out of a total population of 2.5 million.
As can be seen, 2.8 million Russians lived in these areas, but the uprising in the Donbas in 2014 showed that this figure was incorrect.
The Ukrainian should not vote for the independence of his region from Ukraine, the Ukrainian should not fight with arms in arms against the soldiers of the army of Ukraine for the Russian world!
And if this happens?
How to understand a person who calls himself a Ukrainian, is a supporter of the DNR or LNR and wants to join with his region in Russia? The simple answer is Russian, that is, a person who feels like a Russian, acts like a Russian, but sincerely considers himself a Ukrainian because of Ukrainization, which the Bolsheviks first conducted (especially actively in the 1920s and 30s), and then continued to carry out Kiev authorities after independence in 1991.
In Ukraine, there is still such a strange understanding: if a person speaks Russian, but uses a certain number of Ukrainian words, then this serves as confirmation that he is Ukrainian.
So how many Russians are in the Donbas? As many as voted for DNR and LNR:
♦ for the DPR - 89.7% of 4.8 million people = 4.3 million Russians;
♦ for the LC, 96.2% of 2.5 million people = 2.4 million Russians.
So, in Donbas in 2013, 4.3 + 2.4 = 6.7 million Russians lived, that is, Russians were 91.8% of the population.
The one who voted at the referendum for the reunification of Crimea with Russia or for the creation of independent DNR and LNR is, by its behavior, a Russian, even if it calls itself a Ukrainian!
You haven't the slightest fuckin clue about the situation
"Sphere of influence"
I think the British called it colonization.
But you go ahead and call it whatever you want, or whatever CNN tells you
Again, your a dumb fuk and don't know what's going on at all.Yes. Because anyone around there who doesn't want to be a part of Russia or have a pro-Russian govt must be controlled by the US
See above
Why is Putin unique?
We don't have a free press either and Joe Biden sends the FBI to harass his enemies and rivals
This ends by Russia taking the ethnic Russian parts of Ukraine and western bankers plundering what's left.
Congratulations
Then at least get it right. It's not CNN propaganda, it's CNN and Fox propaganda. Here Hannity is condemning the invasion and saying someone should take Putin out:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qN4iwpozaFY
I'm sorry I don't read Breitbart, or communist sources. And no wonder you don't have a problem with Putin. You know what it's called when only one leader has the answer to a problem and everyone else is wrong?
And it happens to be the one person investigated by the DOJ for 2 years for ties to Russia with indictments, convictions and pardons during his own term? "Well Biden's crackhead son got a Ukraine handout." Then take both Trump and Biden out of the equation and listen to everyone else.
If Putin can hold on longer than the Ukrainians can. The Ukrainians have a military of 700,000 well equipped soldiers in the battle that are increasingly well trained. How long does it take to make that give up? Russia would have to kill or wound about half of them. Maybe 3 or 4 years? Even then we will have a weakened Russia at least until Putin dies of natural causes.
That's capitalism. Western bankers plunder in the West. Ukrainian bankers plunder all over too. I would say it's bad but communism didn't work.
Guam and Puerto Rico would be called colonies, not Ukraine.
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Deleted member 123722
Guest
Call it whatever you want.
It's just regime propoganda. It doesn't matter that you believe it. That doesn't change anything. Especially what it is.
They've lied to you about just about every "dictator" and justification for every war they've orchestrated for the past fifty years at least.
I read and studied ever source and perspective I can find.
Yours is typical. I seen your brainless unoriginal bullshit right from the start remember. I told you your argument was " Putin is a megalomaniac cartoon supervillain bent on world domination"
And you ran your mouth with exactly the bullshit I called that you would to say exactly the same thing. How did you put it? "Authoritarian dictator trying to expand his territory into Ukraine"
Uh huh.
They've said exactly the same thing about every single other leader they want to make war against for the past fifty years. "Facist, Nazi, dictator" etc.
Those are trigger words for weak minded cunts like you to take as commands
More interesting than that to me, is that one guy who actually de escalated the Potomac cartels race to war, was the same guy they howled was a "Russian asset".
The DOJ is not a credible entity when it comes to facts, law or truth anymore to any rational person.
Well, then congratulations.
By that time you've killed over a million people and accomplished nothing except promoting human suffering, famine, poverty and deprivation.
All so your holy leadership can steal the resources and wealth of the poorest country in Europe.
I hope your proud of yourself.
Seig heil and ling live the banner of capitalism.
May the murderous, conniving and malevolent bastards you consider heroes continue to rob, rape and plunder the poorest people of the world for years to come.
Then maybe all you miserable cocksuckers will get what's coming to you. Because we all get just that in the end.
I hope you enjoy your just reward for being a chickenshit coward and a follower.
No difference.
Both will pay tribute and be in subjegation as long as power lies in the hands of your holy leadership.
Congratulations, you miserable worm.
Since personal manhood and independence of spirit, conscience and thought has alluded you in life. May you forever be pacified and satisfied by your rulers subjegating others as you lay at thier feet begging for the scraps of thier conquest of other men who had the balls you didn't to defy them.
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No. You still don't understand. Putin did that. We just supported the Ukrainians in their journey. Putin, and his army, was the one that invaded, tortured, raped and killed because of "waah, waah 2014 and waah waah Nazis and waah waah the West." Ultimately he would've done it anyways he's just pulling reasons out of his ass. He's not fooling anyone. None of it justifies what he did.
The US did not come into Ukraine and shoot a million Ukrainians, Russia did. Ukraine did not threaten them, did not attack them, couldn't hit Moscow if they wanted to. But Putin wanted Ukraine's yard to be Russia's yard, because he doesn't like what's going on there. Because he thinks it should've been his yard all along.
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"Supported them in their journey"
Journey to where? And how?
By overthrowing thier government in a violent coup and leading them into war against their neighbors so the ones who survive can enjoy the priveledge of earning wages working for Exxon Mobil and general Mills?
How illustrious and divine of you. How angelic and enlightened they'll feel once the bodies have been buried, the corporations can take over and they can own nothing, be nobody but have unlimited porn options and enjoy diversity celebrations that have everyone but Russians in them.
I'm sure they'll be greatful and se you as such a good person for wanting this for them and encouraging your rulers to bring it into being.
"Putin is a megalomaniac cartoon supervillain bent on world domination"
Yes, we know. You keep parroting that bullshit nonstop. We've all heard it before on CNN MSNBC and hannity.
Just not Tucker Carlson
Go figure.
In other words, Ukraine is in Russia's neighborhood and damn those ruskies for thinking they had a say in what moved in there! Haven't they heard of the divine liberals?
You should be able to do whatever you want.
Spoken like a true sheltered cunt.
You've probably really never fought a man on equal terms in your life have you?
Manhood is something totally alien and mysterious to you. You were raised by a a bitter and angry woman and have suffered immense degredation and humiliation at a young age haven't you? She might've been nurturing and even loving, but she was very bitter wasn't she? Probably not her fault either.
You're in pain inside. Conflicting emotions and underlying uncertainty, fear and anxiety really plague you don't they? You're a coward for sure, but not by choice. You just don't know how to be anything else. You could be brave...under the right circumstances, with permission of course.
I want to sincerely apologize for being so harsh here.
I wish we could meet in person. I hate this Internet shit for this reason.
Look, we're going to have to agree to disagree.
I will not condone the fleecing of poor people and the pillaging of their country by our own government because I was taught to dislike the other guy.
I don't see a difference between them.
I'm my eyes, I can't tell you to go to hell, because to me, you live in hell.
This man made environment of these miscreants that pose themselves as rulers and divine master's can surely kill me. And perhaps one day they will. I'm okay with that.
But they own you. I can't imagine the pain in that.
Good luck
Journey to exactly where they wanted to go, the vast majority anyway. Free of their pro-Russian leader and independent from Russia.
If you want to call it that, go ahead. I don't see him as a supervillain or trying to conquer the world. I see him as a dictator trying to expand his territory.
You and Putin are the ones calling Ukrainians Nazis
And here's Fox News most popular program, The Five. They're saying Biden is too weak on Putin and should be sending MIGs:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BL4q4I0uj_A&t=371s
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Deleted member 123722
Guest
Except Azov Battalion are literally neo-Nazis; this is even acknowledged by the ADL and Israeli news.
www.israel365news.com
Azov has been killing the pro-Russian separatists for YEARS. No one was stopping them, so what was Putin supposed to do? He sent in a special operation to fix the issue.
Putin completed his mission he set forth to accomplish. Now all four regions are part of Russia, and any remaining Ukrainians troops will be considered "terrorists" and dealt with accordingly.
So you will begin to see just how bad you were lied to.
ADL defends Ukraine’s Nazis
When challenged by the reality of a vocal and active Nazi-allied element in Ukrainian society, Prof. Fishman dismissed it as allying with Nazi ideology for “tactical-not-ideological-reasons.”
www.israel365news.com
Azov has been killing the pro-Russian separatists for YEARS. No one was stopping them, so what was Putin supposed to do? He sent in a special operation to fix the issue.
Putin completed his mission he set forth to accomplish. Now all four regions are part of Russia, and any remaining Ukrainians troops will be considered "terrorists" and dealt with accordingly.
So you will begin to see just how bad you were lied to.
