First Timer Question - Test is Best - 50y/o

[GnRHex]

Hi-

New here and really studying and researching a safe, least effects cycle. I am 50, 144lb and currently around 7-8% body fat - was on Retatrutide and did a cycle of Tesomorelin and some other peptides in a three month bulk exiting the Christmas phase. I am on 160mg of TRT. This week I began 2 IU of GH; suspect its too early to notice anything at this dose.

I had been looking at Primo with the Testosterone, and this led me through youtube advice, lots of contradictions across them.

But I discovered a narrative that suggested for a first cycle, stick with just the T and slowly go up, rising to between 200mg to 400mg, monitor bloods every 4 weeks and stay below or at 400 in the program. Eat clean and serious, get in a surplus, and treat the training with the same seriousness as the choices and safety profile I desire for the PED side of the cycle.

Some seem to suggest its not worth it, suggesting to go onto something else and keep the T lower. I would like to put some muscle on, but have no intention to be a bodybuilder - as a first step into pushing my body like this, the test only first run seems reasonable to me, but not sure what I am missing.

I am new to this, and appreciate I may have things wrong here, but I am serious about learning and growing.

Thank you for any wisdom

GnRHex

 

[xrayphoton13]

Testosterone only for first blast. You need to understand how it feels and affects you and what it does to your labs before adding anything else. Even after running so many other compounds I find myself more and more just wanting to run test only and nothing else, well except hgh. I know what it does, how good it feels, and I know how to manage sides. If you aren't a professional bodybuilder that's really all you need. The dht derivates like primo and mast make some people feel better but they didn't in me. We're all unique like that. You'll just have to try and see but that's in due time. First you run just test to learn it better

 

[GnRHex]

Testosterone only for first blast. You need to understand how it feels and affects you and what it does to your labs before adding anything else. Even after running so many other compounds I find myself more and more just wanting to run test only and nothing else, well except hgh. I know what it does, how good it feels, and I know how to manage sides. If you aren't a professional bodybuilder that's really all you need. The dht derivates like primo and mast make some people feel better but they didn't in me. We're all unique like that. You'll just have to try and see but that's in due time. First you run just test to learn it better

Thank you for the advice. You’re absolutely right, I need to understand what happens with just one compound - my biggest anxiety is what will happen with the bloodwork, but if I start reasonably low and go slow I can use this more of a research journey, which does include what muscle building capabilities I will have just from this.

I was definitely thinking strategically, like its an experiment and I need to track everything and see how things evolve. But I think I can get more clear on the intention, the mission, and to stay safe.

Thank you.

 

[youwhat?]

You received good advice already. I’m curious how tall you are being 144lbs after a bulk?

 

[bigMoJo]

Based on the limited info in your post, it sounds like you've spent considerable time researching to find the therapy that works for you. Or, what you believe will work for you. That's fine, and IMO, you're on the right track in that regard.

Monitoring bloods every 4 weeks is a good approach. Did you draw any labs prior to starting... any "baseline" labs? Have you drawn any subsequent labs? How do you know "what will happen with the bloodwork" if you havn't pulled any so far? You likely do, at age 50, but... TRT... what was your TT? Estradiol? Did you draw thyroid and/or glucose and/or insulin labs? If you're on GH, those are vital... especially "baseline" labs. Get the labs on the board so you can "dial-in" what you're doing.

Labs are actually very easy to execute. What makes it difficult is interpreting them when there are missing pieces. For example, I ran "baseline" labs including thyroid. My T3 just recently came in low, below range. However, when comparing to previous labs and "baseline..." it's always just been really low... no problem. If I hadn't drawn prior labs, I would think I have a problem, right?

Regarding the Retatrutide... what was your reason to use that? If your body-fat was low, what was the benefit? On higher doses of GH, it makes sense adding to help control BG/ insulin, and of course hunger. But you just started on 2iU.

Lastly, to add to the discussion about "test only." Based on the goals you mentioned, it may be all you need, but definitely to start. And, that could be for a short period, until you "gauge" your response and ascertain side effects. If after you have enough of "data," you can always make adjustments and additions.

By the way, welcome to the Forum! Your post would have been a great introduction. We ask new members to first post in "New Member" forum and introduce themselves. Maybe if you get a chance, you can drop an intro.

 

[GnRHex]

You received good advice already. I’m curious how tall you are being 144lbs after a bulk?

5ft 6.

I have struggled to put muscle on from being in a very low T range without knowing it. i was around 136 lb before I hot on TRT.

And I did spend too much time afraid to put a bit of fat on, so I havent helped myself there for sure.

Thanks.

 

[youwhat?]

5ft 6.

I have struggled to put muscle on from being in a very low T range without knowing it. i was around 136 lb before I hot on TRT.

And I did spend too much time afraid to put a bit of fat on, so I havent helped myself there for sure.

Thanks.

Welcome to the forum. My best advice to you right now is that if you’re having a hard time putting weight on, you’re simply not eating enough. All the steroids in the world will severely disappoint you if you don’t know how to eat.

 

[GnRHex]

Welcome to the forum. My best advice to you right now is that if you’re having a hard time putting weight on, you’re simply not eating enough. All the steroids in the world will severely disappoint you if you don’t know how to eat.

Yes, I am in 100% agreement with not eating enough. When I got back in shape during covid I was looking pretty damn good for my age, and I was carb cycling. Somewhere along that path I went carnivore, and it had a tragic outcome on my physique, even matching the calories to my carb cycling. This is part of the journey back up the mountain of "me". It was an error, but a good lesson too.

 

[GnRHex]

Based on the limited info in your post, it sounds like you've spent considerable time researching to find the therapy that works for you. Or, what you believe will work for you. That's fine, and IMO, you're on the right track in that regard.

Monitoring bloods every 4 weeks is a good approach. Did you draw any labs prior to starting... any "baseline" labs? Have you drawn any subsequent labs? How do you know "what will happen with the bloodwork" if you havn't pulled any so far? You likely do, at age 50, but... TRT... what was your TT? Estradiol? Did you draw thyroid and/or glucose and/or insulin labs? If you're on GH, those are vital... especially "baseline" labs. Get the labs on the board so you can "dial-in" what you're doing.

Labs are actually very easy to execute. What makes it difficult is interpreting them when there are missing pieces. For example, I ran "baseline" labs including thyroid. My T3 just recently came in low, below range. However, when comparing to previous labs and "baseline..." it's always just been really low... no problem. If I hadn't drawn prior labs, I would think I have a problem, right?

Regarding the Retatrutide... what was your reason to use that? If your body-fat was low, what was the benefit? On higher doses of GH, it makes sense adding to help control BG/ insulin, and of course hunger. But you just started on 2iU.

Lastly, to add to the discussion about "test only." Based on the goals you mentioned, it may be all you need, but definitely to start. And, that could be for a short period, until you "gauge" your response and ascertain side effects. If after you have enough of "data," you can always make adjustments and additions.

By the way, welcome to the Forum! Your post would have been a great introduction. We ask new members to first post in "New Member" forum and introduce themselves. Maybe if you get a chance, you can drop an intro.

Thank you for this detailed response, I really appreciate this.

I joined petermd.com in Jan with bloodwork, and then literally got my latest bloodwork through on Tuesday of this week. That bloodwork, I now realize, provided by my local doctor, is not enough. I have the testosterone numbers and estradiol and hemacrit and those, but you are right, I dont have the other things you mentioned. I have a CBC w/DIFF, as a separate document I received, but nothing else. Petermd.com were only concerned with these numbers. And admittedly they didnt put me on HGH, this is my own intervention.

I found it horrifically difficult to get my bloodwork done through the doctors - the original blood draw and results came back without Free T, even though I explained it was for a TRT program I was in (the doctor refused it to me even though I was hypogonadal.

Being data driven, I agree, is key. I need to figure out where to get more thorough labs done as I cant rely on my doctor at this point.

You asked about Reta....in that push I did as the new year began, I did attempt to push it also on my calories - and my psychology. I was high carb, low fat, and started Reta on a low dose to help me as I pushed the calories, for health reasons - I watched a video by Chase Irons on this.

I missed the introduction piece - added one now: New Member.

Thank you for your time in writing your response. I have learnt something; appreciated.

 

[youwhat?]

Thank you for this detailed response, I really appreciate this.

I joined petermd.com in Jan with bloodwork, and then literally got my latest bloodwork through on Tuesday of this week. That bloodwork, I now realize, provided by my local doctor, is not enough. I have the testosterone numbers and estradiol and hemacrit and those, but you are right, I dont have the other things you mentioned. I have a CBC w/DIFF, as a separate document I received, but nothing else. Petermd.com were only concerned with these numbers. And admittedly they didnt put me on HGH, this is my own intervention.

I found it horrifically difficult to get my bloodwork done through the doctors - the original blood draw and results came back without Free T, even though I explained it was for a TRT program I was in (the doctor refused it to me even though I was hypogonadal.

Being data driven, I agree, is key. I need to figure out where to get more thorough labs done as I cant rely on my doctor at this point.

You asked about Reta....in that push I did as the new year began, I did attempt to push it also on my calories - and my psychology. I was high carb, low fat, and started Reta on a low dose to help me as I pushed the calories, for health reasons - I watched a video by Chase Irons on this.

I missed the introduction piece - added one now: New Member.

Thank you for your time in writing your response. I have learnt something; appreciated.

I don’t know what state you’re in, but in mine I can’t just get bloodwork from any of these sites like normal states can. However, marek health works for me. I can order any panels I want and pay for only those I want to have tested and take that script to labcorp. There is usually some sort of discount code floating around online too. Start there…but if you’re in an easier state for bloodwork there are cheaper options. Just do a search here for stuff like privatemdlabs, etc.

 

[GnRHex]

I don’t know what state you’re in, but in mine I can’t just get bloodwork from any of these sites like normal states can. However, marek health works for me. I can order any panels I want and pay for only those I want to have tested and take that script to labcorp. There is usually some sort of discount code floating around online too. Start there…but if you’re in an easier state for bloodwork there are cheaper options. Just do a search here for stuff like privatemdlabs, etc.

Thanks! I am literally just perusing the privatemdlabs site now. I hadnt realized how expensive these can be, which is definitely good to know now.

I am in Illinois.

Thanks for this advice.

 

[xrayphoton13]

Thanks! I am literally just perusing the privatemdlabs site now. I hadnt realized how expensive these can be, which is definitely good to know now.

I am in Illinois.

Thanks for this advice.

Ultalabs is usually the cheapest. Sign up for emails. They send out around 25% off coupons constantly.

If you get serious you can get a monthly membership through fitomics and have access to even cheaper labs

 

[bigMoJo]

You asked about Reta....in that push I did as the new year began, I did attempt to push it also on my calories - and my psychology. I was high carb, low fat, and started Reta on a low dose to help me as I pushed the calories, for health reasons - I watched a video by Chase Irons on this.

First, thanks again for making that intro post... it gives a lot more background about you.

Regarding Reta... these GLP peptides are extraordinarily potent compared to others. As you already know, peptides like Tesa are potent as well, but GLPs, like Reta, IMO are moreso. You may already know this, GLPs were originally studied and put to trials for diabetes. During trials, extraordinary appetite suppression was also observed. There's nothing like the appetite suppression/control GLPs promote. If you're trying to gain muscle and need appetite, GLPs are likely counterproductive. Keep that in mind.

I like Chase Irons, but personally, disagree with some of his views... from how he reconstitutes his hGH to his way of implementing GLPs. I'm not saying he's completely wrong. I think sometimes he lacks implementation and/or explanation of the full research. Now, he will likely say that's what HE does and what works for HIM. And, that's my point... what he does, or the way he does it, may or may not work for you (you may know this already). There's an abundance of info on Meso regarding GLPs. If you want to learn and research more, there are many threads, with studies linked, to gain proficient knowledge about them.

Lastly, LabCorp labs cost much less than Quest for the identical lab. Private MD provides access to both, but their rate with LabCorp is not as low as other services like Fitomics. For example, CBC costs about $35 with Quest through PrivateMD (less with coupon or code, $22.50). With Fitomics, CBC is about $5. To me, Quest seems to be a more premium lab with faster turnaround, and that sometimes comes in handy. For Quest, with a coupon, Private MD offers competitive pricing. But, services that have the low rates through LabCorp will save you a lot more. It may take a little studying to find which service works for you. Again, there is a ton of info on Meso regarding discount labs.

 

[GnRHex]

Ultalabs is usually the cheapest. Sign up for emails. They send out around 25% off coupons constantly.

If you get serious you can get a monthly membership through fitomics and have access to even cheaper labs

Thanks for those tips - I am right on it.

 

[GnRHex]

First, thanks again for making that intro post... it gives a lot more background about you.

Regarding Reta... these GLP peptides are extraordinarily potent compared to others. As you already know, peptides like Tesa are potent as well, but GLPs, like Reta, IMO are moreso. You may already know this, GLPs were originally studied and put to trials for diabetes. During trials, extraordinary appetite suppression was also observed. There's nothing like the appetite suppression/control GLPs promote. If you're trying to gain muscle and need appetite, GLPs are likely counterproductive. Keep that in mind.

I like Chase Irons, but personally, disagree with some of his views... from how he reconstitutes his hGH to his way of implementing GLPs. I'm not saying he's completely wrong. I think sometimes he lacks implementation and/or explanation of the full research. Now, he will likely say that's what HE does and what works for HIM. And, that's my point... what he does, or the way he does it, may or may not work for you (you may know this already). There's an abundance of info on Meso regarding GLPs. If you want to learn and research more, there are many threads, with studies linked, to gain proficient knowledge about them.

Lastly, LabCorp labs cost much less than Quest for the identical lab. Private MD provides access to both, but their rate with LabCorp is not as low as other services like Fitomics. For example, CBC costs about $35 with Quest through PrivateMD (less with coupon or code, $22.50). With Fitomics, CBC is about $5. To me, Quest seems to be a more premium lab with faster turnaround, and that sometimes comes in handy. For Quest, with a coupon, Private MD offers competitive pricing. But, services that have the low rates through LabCorp will save you a lot more. It may take a little studying to find which service works for you. Again, there is a ton of info on Meso regarding discount labs.

Thanks for the great response again. I do have more to learn on the GLPs. As I came out of my serious push - from Jan to mid March (12 weeks I believe), I was finding myself ravenous. I went to Reta to curb that as I wanted to get back to maintenance.

Thanks for the thoughts on Chase, I hear you. I try to be open-minded enough to hear someone say something, and then I will typically use that to do my own research too, but not always to be fair.

The details on discount labs - very helpful and appreciated. This is my focus right now. I cannot thank you enough for these helpful messages.

 

[youwhat?]

Thanks for the great response again. I do have more to learn on the GLPs. As I came out of my serious push - from Jan to mid March (12 weeks I believe), I was finding myself ravenous. I went to Reta to curb that as I wanted to get back to maintenance.

Thanks for the thoughts on Chase, I hear you. I try to be open-minded enough to hear someone say something, and then I will typically use that to do my own research too, but not always to be fair.

The details on discount labs - very helpful and appreciated. This is my focus right now. I cannot thank you enough for these helpful messages.

It’s refreshing when someone comes here with a question and actually listens to the advice given. Stick around, there is a ton of info here. You’ll do well.

 

[GnRHex]

It’s refreshing when someone comes here with a question and actually listens to the advice given. Stick around, there is a ton of info here. You’ll do well.

I appreciate that. I am very self-aware of what I know I dont know - this thread has been amazingly helpful. Deep respect.

 

[Jkeepdrop739]

Hi-

New here and really studying and researching a safe, least effects cycle. I am 50, 144lb and currently around 7-8% body fat - was on Retatrutide and did a cycle of Tesomorelin and some other peptides in a three month bulk exiting the Christmas phase. I am on 160mg of TRT. This week I began 2 IU of GH; suspect its too early to notice anything at this dose.

I had been looking at Primo with the Testosterone, and this led me through youtube advice, lots of contradictions across them.

But I discovered a narrative that suggested for a first cycle, stick with just the T and slowly go up, rising to between 200mg to 400mg, monitor bloods every 4 weeks and stay below or at 400 in the program. Eat clean and serious, get in a surplus, and treat the training with the same seriousness as the choices and safety profile I desire for the PED side of the cycle.

Some seem to suggest its not worth it, suggesting to go onto something else and keep the T lower. I would like to put some muscle on, but have no intention to be a bodybuilder - as a first step into pushing my body like this, the test only first run seems reasonable to me, but not sure what I am missing.

I am new to this, and appreciate I may have things wrong here, but I am serious about learning and growing.

Thank you for any wisdom

GnRHex

Great plan. I will say this - make sure you get your lipase tested. Reta has pushed mine up 2.5x. It’s not at a dangerous point, but enough to cycle off reta. It’s a known possible side effect.

I am looking to do a similar cycle so this thread has been useful. I’m 135 pounds, down from 155. Now cutting with various items and I’m also on 2iu of GH (as well as cjc no dac and ipa). Currently only ostarine and cardarine for an 8 week cycle and will then do a very light PCT after.

But once I am back to baseline, I will retest and do 200mg of T the first couple of weeks to see how I handle. Tirating up to 300mg. Probably a 12 week cycle. Won’t plan to go above that for first cycle. I’m early 40s w natural T still in the 700s but my SHBG absolutely high. So free T is low.

Anyway, do you plan to do any PCT? And, do you plan to have an AI on hand just in case? Will you keep your GH?

I probably won’t start mine until my SARM cycle is done and I’m recovered. So looking at 3 months from now.

 

[GnRHex]

Great plan. I will say this - make sure you get your lipase tested. Reta has pushed mine up 2.5x. It’s not at a dangerous point, but enough to cycle off reta. It’s a known possible side effect.

I am looking to do a similar cycle so this thread has been useful. I’m 135 pounds, down from 155. Now cutting with various items and I’m also on 2iu of GH (as well as cjc no dac and ipa). Currently only ostarine and cardarine for an 8 week cycle and will then do a very light PCT after.

But once I am back to baseline, I will retest and do 200mg of T the first couple of weeks to see how I handle. Tirating up to 300mg. Probably a 12 week cycle. Won’t plan to go above that for first cycle. I’m early 40s w natural T still in the 700s but my SHBG absolutely high. So free T is low.

Anyway, do you plan to do any PCT? And, do you plan to have an AI on hand just in case? Will you keep your GH?

I probably won’t start mine until my SARM cycle is done and I’m recovered. So looking at 3 months from now.

Thanks for the tip on the lipase test man, appreciated. I will make sure thats in my panel.

135lb seems low - when I was 5-6% body fat I was around that and I am 5ft6.

I am 50, and my Free T was low originally, when I was not on T. I basically made the commitment to stay on TRT.

Regarding GH, I am going to do this push with 2 IU but I have spoken to a few people in the know more than me who suggest 4 IU given my age. But I will do that after getting a more thorough data set of my bloodwork.

My biggest concern with GH is if it's legit at this point.

 

[Jkeepdrop739]

Thanks for the tip on the lipase test man, appreciated. I will make sure thats in my panel.

135lb seems low - when I was 5-6% body fat I was around that and I am 5ft6.

I am 50, and my Free T was low originally, when I was not on T. I basically made the commitment to stay on TRT.

Regarding GH, I am going to do this push with 2 IU but I have spoken to a few people in the know more than me who suggest 4 IU given my age. But I will do that after getting a more thorough data set of my bloodwork.

My biggest concern with GH is if it's legit at this point.

I’m 5’7 and slim now. Not overly skinny but I don’t need to lose anymore weight. Now I want to bulk, the reason for my SARM protocol, GH and then T. My biggest concern is shutting down my natural T which is excellent. But nothing to write home about, esp w my free T being low.

Good luck! Looking forward. Keep us updated because I am going to be following you for sure!