High red blood count

[malfeasance]

Plan is to retest on Friday actually making sure if hydrated. If still high what should I drop it to? 120mgs?

At least this low. Yes.

Hydration is not taking you from 57 to the high 40s. I have been in your shoes, and I have tried everything. The only thing that worked was sane doses, and, short term, draining blood, which I learned to do myself after being rejected for donation for too high of a hemoglobin number at the finger pick.

 

[malfeasance]

One more thing. The life of a red blood cell is 3-4 months. So, once you cease signaling your body to overproduce red blood cells (and, yes, that is what you are doing, ordering your body to produce too many), then it is going to be 3-4 months before all of the oversupply in your blood stream dies off, is scavenged, and replaced.

 

[ThinBulk]

Dumb question but I've been taking beef organ vitamins. Could that raise it as well?

Yes it can. Get your ferritin checked at the draw. You want lower range, about 40-100. You're basically taking an iron supplement. When iron creeps up, it's very easy for the body to produce rbc.

 

[glutesforthesloots]

At least this low. Yes.

Hydration is not taking you from 57 to the high 40s. I have been in your shoes, and I have tried everything. The only thing that worked was sane doses, and, short term, draining blood, which I learned to do myself after being rejected for donation for too high of a hemoglobin number at the finger pick.

Thanks. What's your thoughts on a lot of people and Drs saying rbc doesn't really matter and that there hasn't been any actual studies of high rbc due to trt causing issues long term?

 

[readalot]

Thanks. What's your thoughts on a lot of people and Drs saying rbc doesn't really matter and that there hasn't been any actual studies of high rbc due to trt causing issues long term?

It ain't just RBCs. Interplay of (1) elevated Hct plus (2) plasma viscosity which sets (3) whole blood viscosity. Hct of 50 or 55 for one person may yield very different whole blood viscosity than another.

Those people are morons with blanket statements. Hyperviscosity is a "thing" and the long term wear and tear of elevated blood viscosity on the cardiovascular system is something to respect.

 

[BigDadd7]

Thanks. What's your thoughts on a lot of people and Drs saying rbc doesn't really matter and that there hasn't been any actual studies of high rbc due to trt causing issues long term?

What studies are these?

 

[Tbaz192]

It’s an enigma to most of us, I’ve been battling high rbc, h and h constantly. I even donate 2-4 times a year, I tried enarapril, ip6, grapefruit seed extract, nattokinaise and naringin. It works sometimes goes back to normal but will slowly creep up again.

The best numbers I ever had came when I was lean and doing an hour cardio every day.

Tried all of this as well.
Upped my cardio and made sure to wake up and drink water / sodium first thing.

And a double red donation was the only thing to get my levels back in range just barely.

Did single blood donation. And 1-2.5 months later double red. Switched to E0D pinning too. 40mg test. Only thing that’s helped my numbers

But I need to up my dose. Test is at 563 with that routine. :/

 

[Ateam2023]

It ain't just RBCs. Interplay of (1) elevated Hct plus (2) plasma viscosity which sets (3) whole blood viscosity. Hct of 50 or 55 for one person may yield very different whole blood viscosity than another.

Those people are morons with blanket statements. Hyperviscosity is a "thing" and the long term wear and tear of elevated blood viscosity on the cardiovascular system is something to respect.

i Agree 100%, if the "motor " is having to work extra hard "pumping the fuel" its going to wear aALOT faster,, My layman way of thinking

 

[readalot]

Wasted too much of my life arguing with Nichols. Hope it helps someone. Thread goes on and on.

Hematocrit drives Blood Viscosity- Does that Matter in Men on TRT? Effect of Altitude? - Excel Male Health Forum

Hi ExcelMale folks, I wanted to start off by expressing my gratitude for this site, all of the amazing work that has been put in to make this place such a great source of information. I would expect no less from a chemical engineer :). I've been following this "debate" about how...

www.excelmale.com

Hematocrit drives Blood Viscosity- Does that Matter in Men on TRT? Effect of Altitude? - Page 7 - Excel Male TRT Forum

Hi ExcelMale folks, I wanted to start off by expressing my gratitude for this site, all of the amazing work that has been put in to make this place such a great source of information. I would expect no less from a chemical engineer :). I've been following this "debate" about how...

www.excelmale.com

 

[DECLAN]

Tried all of this as well.
Upped my cardio and made sure to wake up and drink water / sodium first thing.

And a double red donation was the only thing to get my levels back in range just barely.

Did single blood donation. And 1-2.5 months later double red. Switched to E0D pinning too. 40mg test. Only thing that’s helped my numbers

But I need to up my dose. Test is at 563 with that routine. :/

Another thing that worked for me is taking time off everything but it’s miserable. I toughed it out for almost 6 months and luckily my numbers were in range when I took blood work.

This confirms why I had no hematology problems back when I wad cycling on and off a decade ago.

 

[malfeasance]

Another thing that worked for me is taking time off everything but it’s miserable. I toughed it out for almost 6 months and luckily my numbers were in range when I took blood work.

This confirms why I had no hematology problems back when I wad cycling on and off a decade ago.

Did it take you 6 months to get back into range, or is that just when you tested again?

 

[glutesforthesloots]

Did it take you 6 months to get back into range, or is that just when you tested again?

The Ultimate Guide To Hematocrit On TRT – TRT HUB

trthub.com

I'll try to find the other articles

 

[Tbaz192]

Another thing that worked for me is taking time off everything but it’s miserable. I toughed it out for almost 6 months and luckily my numbers were in range when I took blood work.

This confirms why I had no hematology problems back when I wad cycling on and off a decade ago.

Oddly enough I took 3 months off due to health issue too. So that probably was a driving factor too.
Just good ol TRT dose barely

 

[glutesforthesloots]

At least this low. Yes.

Hydration is not taking you from 57 to the high 40s. I have been in your shoes, and I have tried everything. The only thing that worked was sane doses, and, short term, draining blood, which I learned to do myself after being rejected for donation for too high of a hemoglobin number at the finger pick.

Also question about hydrating. I was pounding water the last two days before the test this morning. But will I still be dehydrated if I tested early morning and only had a glass of water beforehand. Wasn't sure if going all night long with no water while sleeping would affect the results?

 

[BigDadd7]

Also question about hydrating. I was pounding water the last two days before the test this morning. But will I still be dehydrated if I tested early morning and only had a glass of water beforehand. Wasn't sure if going all night long with no water while sleeping would affect the results?

As opposed to being dehydrated from the day before, plus no water all night?

 

[BabaJagga]

You are not going to want to hear this, but I am going to say it.

Lower the dose.

I do not know your injection frequency or anything like that, but 890 at the trough is higher than the 95th percentile of peak measurements taken in the morning for natties.

Imagine what your levels must be at the peak.

View attachment 331780


source for chart:

How Much Do Variations in Physiological Testosterone Matter To Your Gains?

How Much Do Variations In Physiological Testosterone Matter To Your Gains?It is well established that anabolic steroid use, which involve supraphysiological doses of testosterone or related hormones, causes massive increases in muscle size, well beyond what can be obtained naturally.

weightology.net

Note the midrange there is 531, and that includes 19 year old teenagers in the population group.

You are not even getting down there at the trough.

Your estradiol is maxing out the normal range (10- 40, you are over)

Give your body, your cardiovascular system, and your red blood cell production machinery, a rest.

Lower the dose.

Lower it a bunch.

damn it hits hard

 

[glutesforthesloots]

You are not going to want to hear this, but I am going to say it.

Lower the dose.

I do not know your injection frequency or anything like that, but 890 at the trough is higher than the 95th percentile of peak measurements taken in the morning for natties.

Imagine what your levels must be at the peak.

View attachment 331780


source for chart:

How Much Do Variations in Physiological Testosterone Matter To Your Gains?

How Much Do Variations In Physiological Testosterone Matter To Your Gains?It is well established that anabolic steroid use, which involve supraphysiological doses of testosterone or related hormones, causes massive increases in muscle size, well beyond what can be obtained naturally.

weightology.net

Note the midrange there is 531, and that includes 19 year old teenagers in the population group.

You are not even getting down there at the trough.

Your estradiol is maxing out the normal range (10- 40, you are over)

Give your body, your cardiovascular system, and your red blood cell production machinery, a rest.

Lower the dose.

Lower it a bunch.

Feel like it can't be that crazy high though at the peak. I pin 3x a week so usually test mid day after pinning the morning before.

 

[DECLAN]

Did it take you 6 months to get back into range, or is that just when you tested again?

It was my scheduled bloodwork. There was another time I took 4 months off and my numbers were still elevated.

We cannot probably find a one size fits all solution for our hematology issues since everyone is different but we can try all the different options until we find something that works.

The struggle continues brothers.

 

[malfeasance]

Feel like it can't be that crazy high though at the peak. I pin 3x a week so usually test mid day after pinning the morning before.

Maybe it is not "crazy high," but it is high enough to be pushing your e2 out of range and your RBC out of range.

This is really my only point.

Many of us push the doses and then use an AI to bring e2 back in range and drain blood out into our bathtub or donate double reds to try to bring our RBC back into range.

I am submitting for consideration that neither is acceptable for TRT. Lower the dose into a range that your body handles with e2 and RBC in normal ranges.

Short blasts of higher dosages? Fine, use an AI as needed and donate blood, but I do not think those are good solutions for the long term, years and years.

It is just my opinion. I believe if we are going to do this, then we should give our body a break from time to time. "Cruising" as most describe it on here does not do that.

True TRT does.

Do your cycle, put on the mass or do the awesome summer cut down to 7% body fat looking awesome (oh, bullshit, nobody is doing the cut, lol, permabulk forever!), but then go back down to true Testosterone Replacement Therapy, not TRT+ or a cruise.

It is doubtful that your trough number was 890 measured at whatever the worst possible time and lowest level was for you when natty.

Just my two cents, glutesforthesloots, and you can feel free to discard it as you wish. Only you can be responsible for yourself, and you answer for the choices you make and their consequences, not me.

I am sharing my opinion out of a caring heart, not out of a desire to control.

When you turn 60, are you going to look back and say, "Damn, I sure am glad back then I did that extra 60mg a week!" or whatever. You get my point.

 

[glutesforthesloots]

Maybe it is not "crazy high," but it is high enough to be pushing your e2 out of range and your RBC out of range.

This is really my only point.

Many of us push the doses and then use an AI to bring e2 back in range and drain blood out into our bathtub or donate double reds to try to bring our RBC back into range.

I am submitting for consideration that neither is acceptable for TRT. Lower the dose into a range that your body handles with e2 and RBC in normal ranges.

Short blasts of higher dosages? Fine, use an AI as needed and donate blood, but I do not think those are good solutions for the long term, years and years.

It is just my opinion. I believe if we are going to do this, then we should give our body a break from time to time. "Cruising" as most describe it on here does not do that.

True TRT does.

Do your cycle, put on the mass or do the awesome summer cut down to 7% body fat looking awesome (oh, bullshit, nobody is doing the cut, lol, permabulk forever!), but then go back down to true Testosterone Replacement Therapy, not TRT+ or a cruise.

It is doubtful that your trough number was 890 measured at whatever the worst possible time and lowest level was for you when natty.

Just my two cents, glutesforthesloots, and you can feel free to discard it as you wish. Only you can be responsible for yourself, and you answer for the choices you make and their consequences, not me.

I am sharing my opinion out of a caring heart, not out of a desire to control.

When you turn 60, are you going to look back and say, "Damn, I sure am glad back then I did that extra 60mg a week!" or whatever. You get my point.

Thanks man appreciate all the input. Still waiting for the results but should get them back tonight. Regardless Im gonna drop the trt dose to 120 mgs and get bloods in about a month or two.