A GH and fat loss protocol (rhGH lipolysis) that is science-based

[bananafeet]

isnt AI Awesome,, lmao

Sometimes it just wastes your time and google is more efficient.

If you don't have a good basic knowledge of the subject it will just lead you astray.

Nothing will replace experience or education. Those are direct quotes from studies tho. You can go read them....

 

[AlexDavis43]

what I don't understand with GH, if taken in the morning

"...serum GH usually starts to rise after 2 hours, peaks by 4 or 6 hours and drops back to near baseline levels 12 hours after s.c. GH administration"

doesn't that mean it almost always collides with a carb heavy meal, as long as the individual isn't fasting, which is rare in bodybuilding population?

what would your ideal GH protocol be for 4 units, if a dose in the AM is needed?

Why is a dose in the morning needed? , it is still effective no matter how you use it. However why would you pin in the morning and increase insulin resistance and grogginess the entire day?
Pin at night subQ before bed. The resistance won’t kick in until you’ve already digestested your last meal, it will help you sleep, and still be active in your system for fat burning effect by the time you do your morning fasted cardio, the insulin resistance effect will be gone by the time your eat your first meal.

Imo GH dose timing is minutiae

Total dose >> "optimal" dose timing

In other words, no matter how you time 4 IU, it's never gonna match 6 IU

 

[Ateam2023]

Sometimes it just wastes your time and google is more efficient.

If you don't have a good basic knowledge of the subject it will just lead you astray.

Nothing will replace experience or education. Those are direct quotes from studies tho. You can go read them....

i was flipping ya chitman , good studies,,

 

[dinfar1337]

"GH secretion in adults In healthy adults, it is known that fertile women have a higher GH secretion than young men (23) and that GH secretion is inversely associated with increasing age and adiposity (24, 25). These factors should be considered during GH replacement. Instead, GH dose schedules based on body weight or surface area results in higher daily doses of GH in subjects with higher body weight and lower for most women compared with men.
In middle-aged women, the reported daily production of GH is about 47 mg/L 3 24 h, whereas the mean production in the adult male is 15 mg/L 3 24 h. Assuming an availability of sc administered recombinant human GH of 60%, a dose between 0.3-0.6 mg (0.6-1.8 IU) per day should be in agreement with the physiological GH production in adults (26),
which is markedly lower than the doses of GH used in previous trials of GH replacement in adults."

Source: Sci-Hub | | 10.1210/jcem.85.3.6487-1

1iu places me in the middle of the recommended range. I don't really care to argue, but it seems like the dosing advice given here is rather generous.

Another source:
"The present study also examined 9 patients with childhood-onset GHD (aged 23–57 yr; 7 men and 2 women). Within 12 weeks of treatment, all nine and eight of nine patients reached normal levels of serum IGF-I and IGFBP-3, respectively. The dose of rhGH in this study group was 0.6 or 1.2 IU/day (mean doses, 1.0 IU/day; ;0.6 IU/m2zday;;0.11 IU/kg.week). Normalization of serum IGF-I was achieved with a mean dose of 1.0 IU/day, which is comparable with the dose advised by Wollmann et al. (12) but lowerthan the dose advised by Møller et al. (13) and De Boer et al.(14, 15). Wollmann et al. (12) examined 12 patients (9 men and 3 women) with childhood-onset GHD (20 –36 yr of age) in arandomized cross-over design with 3 treatment periods of 3months each (0.125, 0, 25, and 0.5 IU/kg BW.week)."

Source: https://sci-hub.se/https://doi.org/10.1210/jcem.82.1.3669
View attachment 339063

your studies are on "normal people"

old people will produce less hgh. and your studies mentions its done on middle aged people 45-65 year olds.

younger people will produce more than 1iu a day.

this is normal people?

we are on high protein diets which increases hgh.

we have more lean mass which increases hgh.

your gear will inrease igf-1 which increases hgh

lets look at what a 80-90kg man can produce normally in a day? approx 3iu a day.

that isnt factored in with all the above

you are extra with all the diet focus, high training volume and intensity. high sleep focus and taking gear. im gonna go as far to say you're having like a 99.9% chance of underdosing yourself with 1iu.

im not even that nerdy when it comes to the science but 1iu is just completely wrong and the other nerds in here who is more into it can probably tell you more about it

 

[bananafeet]

your studies are on "normal people"

old people will produce less hgh. and your studies mentions its done on middle aged people 45-65 year olds.

younger people will produce more than 1iu a day.

this is normal people?

we are on high protein diets which increases hgh.

we have more lean mass which increases hgh.

your gear will inrease igf-1 which increases hgh

lets look at what a 80-90kg man can produce normally in a day? approx 3iu a day.

that isnt factored in with all the above

you are extra with all the diet focus, high training volume and intensity. high sleep focus and taking gear. im gonna go as far to say you're having like a 99.9% chance of underdosing yourself with 1iu.

im not even that nerdy when it comes to the science but 1iu is just completely wrong and the other nerds in here who is more into it can probably tell you more about it

I'm happy to be wrong. It all comes down to what you wanna do....

They kept people on "low doses" for 12 weeks and their IGF1 was SD +1 (upper end of normal).

What gym bro is gonna pin consistently 1iu per day for 3 months? I'm itching to up my dose now that my sides are gone after 2 weeks lol

Just like I wanna inject more than 125mg per week of testosterone enanthate even tho I have no logical reason to do it.

Anyway I think it's a good thing because it means you can get more out of less. But that's just me.

 

[bananafeet]

The funny thing is I was like what's the point of even pinning a miserly 1iu. Trust me I wanna pin more of this shit. But I'd rather be honest with myself and blast like a mad man when it's actually time to do it rather than letting dose creep happen and blurring the line between "replacement" and a mini blast.

 

[Rakusa]

Why is a dose in the morning needed? , it is still effective no matter how you use it. However why would you pin in the morning and increase insulin resistance and grogginess the entire day?
Pin at night subQ before bed. The resistance won’t kick in until you’ve already digestested your last meal, it will help you sleep, and still be active in your system for fat burning effect by the time you do your morning fasted cardio, the insulin resistance effect will be gone by the time your eat your first meal.

I sleep a lot better since I started morning injections, instead of nightly. I tried much stuff with nightly injection, moving up the dose from 2.7 to 4 or 5 - but still woke up multiple times during the night. Taking the dose immediately before bed, nothings changed.

I agree however that nightly dosing is much more beneficial than morning dosing...

 

[Type-IIx]

I think it would make most sense to have the last dose as close to bed as possible, since you will be shutting down your endogenous GH production with such a late injection. Also as far away from the last meal as possible, since GH and blood glucose don't go well together.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

True for GH, untrue for GH Secretagogues!

I’m working on an article about this topic of GH interference by GH and timing matters surrounding dual or combined use GH and secretagogues for my Substack

 

[Type-IIx]

Do you think
2iu first thing in the morning and
2iu 30min before last meal and go sleep is ok?

Generally with a daily dose of only 5 IU, you wouldn't want to split it at all. It'll cause 24-h insulin resistance and you get greater peak GH and IGF-I as a result of a single, larger bolus dose. That's kind of the principle behind this protocol, of course, it's also timed to promote fat oxidation by exercise. A nighttime bolus is generally the fail-back since, as @Rakusa wrote, GH at nighttime has myriad benefits [and does still promote exercise-induced fat oxidation the following day]. You might split the 5 IU only if you can't tolerate, say, 4 IU, because of carpal tunnel, etc. That's the way.

 

[Type-IIx]

so you are gonna take some hgh, then spike your insulin? diabetis rush?

waste of hgh anyway

It's not just IGF-I that GH stimulates, it's other growth factors too, including good ol' insulin!

From Bolus p. 60:

IGF-I and Insulin Increase
RhGH, during prolonged subcutaneous administration in a state of positive energy balance [caloric surplus], causes the actions of IGF-I and insulin to prevail 8 - 10 h post-injection. [10].

emphasis added

 

[Type-IIx]

Well i need eat before bed so my last meal is just 10g carbs

Yeah, this is pretty standard during cutting especially. Carbs promote that quality deep sleep everyone's talking about needing more of!

 

[Type-IIx]

Speaking of sleep (and other benefits), is anyone here using tart cherry extract? I see a lot of the peloton is taking it during the Tour de France now because of its many benefits, but you have to be careful not to blunt hypertrophy (that depends on some inflammatory signaling) with the potent antioxidants it contains like vitamin A and C.

 

[Sicsemptyran]

Speaking of sleep (and other benefits), is anyone here using tart cherry extract? I see a lot of the peloton is taking it during the Tour de France now because of its many benefits, but you have to be careful not to blunt hypertrophy (that depends on some inflammatory signaling) with the potent antioxidants it contains like vitamin A and C.

Very common among endurance athletes which do not care so much about hypertrophy as you mention. Know a bunch of people in that community that swear by it as part of their daily stack.

 

[Type-IIx]

BTW guys, check out my Substack I just launched

https://typeiix.substack.com

 

[Rakusa]

Generally with a daily dose of only 5 IU, you wouldn't want to split it at all. It'll cause 24-h insulin resistance and you get greater peak GH and IGF-I as a result of a single, larger bolus dose. That's kind of the principle behind this protocol, of course, it's also timed to promote fat oxidation by exercise. A nighttime bolus is generally the fail-back since, as @Rakusa wrote, GH at nighttime has myriad benefits [and does still promote exercise-induced fat oxidation the following day]. You might split the 5 IU only if you can't tolerate, say, 4 IU, because of carpal tunnel, etc. That's the way.

What's your explanation or even resolve of the phenomenon some people report, where they sleep worse on HGH taken before bed?

 

[Type-IIx]

Very common among endurance athletes which do not care so much about hypertrophy as you mention. Know a bunch of people in that community that swear by it as part of their daily stack.

I looked into it… I'd expect it to be of benefit indeed for those guys, especially deep into a stage race, when your immune system is screaming.

In the bodybuilding context, I wouldn't like it, and would generally say you better pull back on volume if it's helping you because you're doing too much!

 

[Type-IIx]

What's your explanation or even resolve of the phenomenon some people report, where they sleep worse on HGH taken before bed?

GH increases nighttime awakenings and causes sleep apnea (choking and waking up suddenly) by adenotonsillar hypertrophy.

It generally (though exceptions prove the rule) promotes a shift towards increased time spent in stage 4 sleep

 

[Type-IIx]

BTW I wanted to say that taping your mouth shut or doing anything to physically obstruct airways can work for mild cases of sleep apnea, but can cause you to suffocate if it's severe.

 

[Type-IIx]

isnt AI Awesome,, lmao

TBF, @bananafeet seems to be actually reading these studies and just copying and pasting passages. This is what we need more of, especially if it's relevant! [I didn't read back into the context]

AI doesn't do citations [yet], and if someone uses it [today] and you dig deeply into their phony references (if they bother to "fake" it) you'll find they can't even trace the sources for what they "wrote" (generated).

 

[Sicsemptyran]

TBF, @bananafeet seems to be actually reading these studies and just copying and pasting passages. This is what we need more of, especially if it's relevant! [I didn't read back into the context]

AI doesn't do citations [yet], and if someone uses it [today] and you dig deeply into their phony references (if they bother to "fake" it) you'll find they can't even trace the sources for what they "wrote" (generated).

There’s a couple AI configurations where you can get it to usually point out studies that you can follow up on, but I am still surprised that despite its advancements everywhere else it will still just completely make shit up either about studies that do exist or fabricate studies that never happened.

If you’re not asking it about a major drug with wide usage and many landmark studies with plenty of third party commentary, you have to assume everything it says is bullshit, especially about edge cases or secondary endpoints.