How did the myth start that Primobolan was an AI?

[cousinmuscles]

Highly confused and suspicious of pricing? What? You need to learn about this dude Socrates. I think he'll help you understand. Sometimes, things are not as they appear - especially questions.

In any event, I did "dig deeper" by extensively researching the history of this topic on this forum and verified, after multiple searches, that the claims of the gang in this forum regarding Primoblan "crashing" estrogen are not more than 3 years old. No one 10 years ago or 5 years ago was claiming this.

We also have a good scientific contribution that indicates ALL DHT derived androgens reduce estrogen, which I consider plausible, but not to the degree being claimed here.

Outside of using AI to summarize (correctly) why some random aromatase inhibitor researched by Schering in the 1990s is not a metabolite of Primoblan, I have not used it. And this should be evident by my writing style.

Ah, so now it is about the DEGREE to which it lowers estrogen that we are all schizophrenic about. Can you quote a single post here where someone said "primobolan will crash your estrogen"?

 

[readalot]

I’ve noticed on some of the discount lab websites they are warning everyone that E2 sensitive/ultrasensitive labs results have a significant delay, it’s nationwide and affects Quest and LabCorp. Which is what we already knew. But it’s a good reminder.

Try getting the free E2 by equilibrium dialysis coupled with LCMS for E2. Though Endocrine Sciences owned by Labcorp. May actually be faster and you get more detailed info.

500649: Estradiol Free, Equilibrium Dialysis, With Total Estradiol, HPLC/MS-MS (Endocrine Sciences)

Labcorp test details for Estradiol Free, Equilibrium Dialysis, With Total Estradiol, HPLC/MS-MS (Endocrine Sciences)

www.labcorp.com

 

[readalot]

We can also use this...

A novel spreadsheet method for calculating the free serum concentrations of testosterone, dihydrotestosterone, estradiol, estrone and cortisol: with illustrative examples from male and female populations - PubMed

In humans, testosterone (T), dihydrotestosterone (DHT), estradiol (E2), estrone (E1) and cortisol (C) bind to the serum proteins sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG), albumin (Alb) and corticosteroid-binding globulin (CBG). Equilibrium dialysis is considered to be the "gold standard" for...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Sampei]

I wonder if crybaby called mommy complaining about how he tried still to donate (liar) but he got insulted and so no no no I'm not dropping a penny to you bad boyzzzzz

Cry me a river?
You are just a clown
How's life from the basement?

 

[hexagonal]

Highly confused and suspicious of pricing? What? You need to learn about this dude Socrates. I think he'll help you understand. Sometimes, things are not as they appear - especially questions.

"I've been called out for being too lazy to figure out if these Chinese source threads that have existed for months or years with hundreds or thousands of pages are actually being used by people and people are actually getting the product they paid for at the price they paid, despite my questions being posted on pages with people literally talking about receiving them and janoshik tests being posted, so now I'm going to deflect with some bullshit about the socratic method."

Your questions were lazy and bad and would have gotten a newbie torched and you got sad and mad when they also got you torched.

In any event, I did "dig deeper" by extensively researching the history of this topic on this forum and verified, after multiple searches, that the claims of the gang in this forum regarding Primoblan "crashing" estrogen are not more than 3 years old. No one 10 years ago or 5 years ago was claiming this.

We also have a good scientific contribution that indicates ALL DHT derived androgens reduce estrogen, which I consider plausible, but not to the degree being claimed here.

As others have pointed out, the impact (and for some people, significant impact) of Primo on E2 has been discussed across a variety of places for extended periods of time. One internet forum not discussing it means very little.

It's also odd that you have basically been arguing that we should all have been discussing this for forever, but also that primo has only been widely available for a decade or so. Why would it be widely discussed if it wasn't widely used? These ideas are fundamentally mutually exclusive.

Outside of using AI to summarize (correctly) why some random aromatase inhibitor researched by Schering in the 1990s is not a metabolite of Primoblan, I have not used it. And this should be evident by my writing style.

Why would writing style be indicative of not using an AI? It would be indicative of not copy and pasting from an AI, but anyone can open up two tabs and paraphrase whatever their pet stochastic parrot spit out.

 

[Tdeck81]

 

[hexagonal]

Regardless, I will post the results. I suppose it is entirely possible that low estrogen doesn't affect me negatively.

I will be using Quest.

It's also possible that it just doesn't impact your E2, either to a significant degree or even a minor one.

We know that compounds impact people differently for a wide variety of reasons, from genetics, to body comp, to dozens of other factors. You seem to be very fixated on what primo does to you and extrapolating that to everyone else on the planet.

I don't believe anyone here is arguing that primo has meaningful impact to E2 for every person - this would be an odd position to take, since there are many people who can run primo at high levels relative to test and still have normal E2 levels.

But it seems equally absurd to suggest that all of the people who do see significant impact to E2 when they add in primo are hallucinating their bloodwork, have somehow accidentally added in an AI, or have gear that has, for some reason, been mass contaminated across a wide variety of sources with an AI.

 

[chrysler]

Primo definitely lowers E2 for me and it is noticeable in bloodwork. While we know that some EQ metabolites lower E2, we don't know how primo lowers E2 yet. I am pretty sure it is a similar path: there must be a primo metabolite that binds aromatose.

 

[readalot]

https://mempool.space/address/bc1qysw55r2nxy5rwszf96ztfzpasaayykhyqyxhkr

 

[readalot]

https://mempool.space/address/bc1qysw55r2nxy5rwszf96ztfzpasaayykhyqyxhkr

The mouth to money ratio (MTMR) in effect.

 

[Tdeck81]

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Type it in. Makes sense lol

 

[sionnach]

View attachment 344924


Type it in. Makes sense lol

 

[BigDadd7]

Interesting

 

[malomkarom]

"I've been called out for being too lazy to figure out if these Chinese source threads that have existed for months or years with hundreds or thousands of pages are actually being used by people and people are actually getting the product they paid for at the price they paid, despite my questions being posted on pages with people literally talking about receiving them and janoshik tests being posted, so now I'm going to deflect with some bullshit about the socratic method."

Your questions were lazy and bad and would have gotten a newbie torched and you got sad and mad when they also got you torched.

As others have pointed out, the impact (and for some people, significant impact) of Primo on E2 has been discussed across a variety of places for extended periods of time. One internet forum not discussing it means very little.

It's also odd that you have basically been arguing that we should all have been discussing this for forever, but also that primo has only been widely available for a decade or so. Why would it be widely discussed if it wasn't widely used? These ideas are fundamentally mutually exclusive.

Why would writing style be indicative of not using an AI? It would be indicative of not copy and pasting from an AI, but anyone can open up two tabs and paraphrase whatever their pet stochastic parrot spit out.

Dude just thinks antipsychotics leave you with the knowledge of all generations of humanity combined with no room for error.

Long story short, those meds are for a mental illness, not basic human arrogance and stupidity. Would make hella sick nootropics otherwise.
Imagine thinking you know everything cause you no longer halucinate....

 

[cousinmuscles]

View attachment 344924


Type it in. Makes sense lol

My personal opinion is every AAS user should keep antipsychotics on hand, and tell someone close to them that they have them.

They are shit drugs for long term use, but they can quickly bring sanity back, typically in a week.

If you need to keep antipsychotics on hand, reconsider using AAS.

 

[malomkarom]

Guess his sanity is back after a week...

 

[RockyP]

If you need to keep antipsychotics on hand, reconsider using AAS.

If one is prone to actual psychosis either pre-AAS use or using specific AAS, then yes, just don't ever use AAS again.

Some people can encounter severe anxiety / insomnia on certain regimens, and low dose antipsychotics (something like 25 - 50 mg Seroquel) can be very good at abating this while the compounds wash out. Seroquel is much stronger (and not addictive) compared to benzos such as Xanax, Valium, etc. Those latter meds perpetuate their own use, and I would vehemently recommend against using them for any indication, especially if dealing with severe mental side effects from gear.

Regarding the Primo AI issue, just thought I would add my experience. I've been dose-finding for the past while to find an optimal range of test to primo that will allow me to not use an AI. I am a VERY high aromatizer and i've learned I need to run primo 1:1 with my test. When I was first titrating things, I found that this ratio replaced 1.5 mg Arimidex per week. That is, my E2 was just about the same with the same dosage of test and 1.5 Adex vs a 1:1 ratio of test to primo with no AI.

 

[sionnach]

As promised, here is my blood work. Estradiol is normal.

According to the hypotheses presented in this thread, this should not be possible. Yet here it is.

Once again, this is representative of my typical TRT dose of 180mg per week plus 400mg per week of primobolan, which commenced around July 1 or maybe last week of June. I have also been running 3iu of HGH and 2mg of Reta since August 1, just in the spirit of transparency.

Just about everything here was anticipated, except perhaps thyroid markers being slightly out of range. This is new.

Dear lord...that ALT...

 

[RockyP]

As promised, here is my blood work. Estradiol is normal.

According to the hypotheses presented in this thread, this should not be possible. Yet here it is.

Once again, this is representative of my typical TRT dose of 180mg per week plus 400mg per week of primobolan, which commenced around July 1 or maybe last week of June. I have also been running 3iu of HGH and 2mg of Reta since August 1, just in the spirit of transparency.

Just about everything here was anticipated, except perhaps thyroid markers being slightly out of range. This is new.

I'm in the same boat brother. I took the conventional wisdom when I started Primo and ran it at half test dosage. Did not help my E2. Then went to 1 to 1 ratio, better. Had to run it a good 30% higher than my test to get the E2 i wanted. We're all different. For most users it does seem to act as a strong AI and they need to run it at 30 - 65% of their test dosage to avoid E2 crashing.