Journey to Leanness: Fat Loss Log

[docpepper]

This is a fat-loss/cut log, not an AAS cycle log. I've seen others post their diet logs here too, so I figured it'd be okay. Happy to move thread elsewhere otherwise.

Stats:
- Age: 28
- Height: 5'6
- Weight: 216lbs
- BF: Never measured, but >30%

Compounds:
- Retatrutide: 7.5mg/week (just came up from 5mg)
- TRT: 140mg/week Cyp (40mg EOD)

I've always struggled with my weight. Been fat most of my life, but have gotten into good shape (by ordinary standards) a handful of times, and have gained most of it back every time.

I'm actually very talented at dieting and sticking to a diet. It's the slow-creep of maintenance that is always the biggest challenge for me. The lack of a target, letting off the gas pedal. I begin to slowly drift up and find myself up 20lbs months later.

Last year I hit 254lbs at 5'6, which was my all-time high from when I was like 19 or 20. Disgusted with myself, I started dieting and exercising aggressively. Found Sema and Reta along the way, which make things much easier. I'd say the biggest thing about these GLP-1s is that I'm confident that I can finally nail maintenance. Losing the weight was never the big challenge, but now that I have much more confidence in GLP-1s helping me with maintenance auto-regulation, I'm so much more optimistic about AFTER the cut is over.

Here is a chart of my weight since October 2024:



Lost relatively steadily until the summer. Light calorie counting (not weighing food and obsessing over my log) and smart food choices. Eased up on going out with friends and tried to limit eating out with the (now ex) GF.

But things started slowing down in the summer, so I decided I have to go all-in or else I'll just lose 0.5lb/week slowly over time, which is way too slow at my bodyweight.

The Plan​

I found Lyle McDonald's Rapid Fat Loss book, and his PSMF idea really appealed to me. I love the idea of a strict diet, where the boundaries and rules are very clear.

The diet is quite simple:
- ~1200 calories per day (my TDEE is ~2600, at least that's the low-end of various estimates, I like assuming low end in a cut)
- 150g protein per day. (Lyle's recommendation is 1g/lb LBM, so I rounded up my estimated ~130-140 LBM to 150 to be safe)

I mostly eat 96% lean ground beef, chicken breast, shrimp, whey protein shakes, and protein bars. I'll throw a can of tomatoes and peppers in my ground beef to have a sort of PSMF chili, use 50g/12oz of light mayo with the chicken breast + hot sauce to make a chicken salad (deli chicken salad not like greens). Things of that nature. Trying to make palatable meals by adding as few calories as possible. Backfill protein as needed with whey shakes. At first, this was 3/day, now it's 0-1.

I started this diet on August 15, which was two weeks out from a vacation. The vacation had nothing to do with the weight loss motivation, but it was perfect timing, as I could do a bit of a lazy version of the PSMF for two weeks, and figure out more sustainable recipes when I return. From August 15-30 I ate 10oz of chicken breast, 3 whey shakes, and an Oikos Triple Zero yogurt.

This was ~1,000 calories.

On vacation I wasn't neurotic about anything nor did I track. But with the Reta, I wasn't able to finish most meals and was only having 1-3 alcoholic drinks per day. So maybe maintenance or above, doesn't really matter.

Upon returning, I spent some time building a few easy go-to recipes so I can eat real food instead of getting like 40% of my calories from whey.

Still hitting my protein goals, but hitting closer to 1200-1300 calories per day most days. Slowly refining the recipes to carve out bits of calories piece by piece without significantly affecting the taste of the food, just trying to optimize a bit, but if I stay at this ~1250 calorie pace, that's fine too.

I have one slip-up so far, where I ate 2500 calories in a day. My dog woke me up barking in the middle of the night, bring him outside and stupidly had an ice cream bar and a slice of pizza while hanging outside with him. Not a big deal, it happens here and there.

Training​

Two months ago I started training "bodybuilder style" for the first time in my life and I've never had more fun in the gym. All of my ~7 years of on/off training has always been strength/powerlifting focused. When I first start lifting I concluded barbell-focused strength training was the perfect method and never really bothered to mess with much else.

But when I got back into training last year, I was getting bored of doing the same barbell lifts over and over again, and it sucked to have to build back up to my old maxes. Randomly saw some clips of old school bodybuilders training on YouTube Shorts and thought it looked so fun so I decided to give it a shot.

Prior to starting this bodybuilding-style training, I was doing a basic full-body program, 3x/week. Wasn't training nearly as hard as I am now, saw decent progress.

I've really fallen in love with this style of training, it feels so fresh. The mind/muscle connection, higher rep ranges, finding ways to make the same weight harder (partials, rest/pause), training purely for hypertrophy, and I'm finally getting a pump, which is kinda rare in the 4-6 rep range. I finally understand that Arnold clip.

I also learned what actually training to failure feels like. The only time I truly trained to failure in the past was trying 1RMs. Many of my working sets I thought I had 1-2 RIR, but I probably had more like 3-4. I love that using machines and cables you can safely push to absolute failure, not really possible with barbells.

Started with a basic bro-split: Chest/Back/Legs/Shoulders/Arms

Quickly felt that the shoulder day, despite side delts being my new favorite muscle to train, was kinda redundant. Barbell OHP was the only truly taxing movement, the rest was side/rear delt work that could be distributed onto another day. Same with the arm day.

So I consolidated it into a PPL cadence: Chest-Bis/Back-Tris/Legs, but not strictly bro-split or PPL.

Here's what I'm running right now:

Chest​

- 3x Incline Hammer Press (8-12)
- 3x Pec Deck (12-15)
- 3x Cable Chest Press (8-12)
- 3x Cable Curls (8-12)
- 3x Seated Side Lat Raise Machine (varied rep ranges)
- 2x Concentration Curls (8-12)
- 2x Cable Lat Raise

Back​

- 3x Close-Grip Lat Pulldown (8-12)
- 3x Chest-Supported T-Bar Row (6-8)
- 3x Tricep Pushdown (8-12)
- 3x Rear Delt Flies (8-12)
- 3x Tricep French Press (12-15)
- 2x Side Delt Machine
- 2x Facepulls (8-12)

Legs​

- 3x Barbell High Bar Squat (8-12)
- 3x Hamstring Curls (8-12)
- 3x Leg Extensions (8-12)
- 2x Calf Raise (12-15)
- 2x Side Delt

Notes:
- End each session with 15-25min of steady state stairmaster
- I train to failure on 2/3 of working sets for the compound movements, and 90% of sets for the isolations.
- Recovery has been good so far. I know this skews higher volume given my dramatic cut, so I'll cut volume a bit if recovery starts taking a hit.
- Still making strength/rep gains. Being just two months into this style of training, I know a lot of that is adaption/learning the new movements, but so far, so good.
- Very noticeable gains. Nothing spectacular, but feel like my weight distribution is shifting away from my stomach and towards my chest/shoulders/back. Feeling much harder, upper body looks more built, etc. Gains are far better than I was seeing on my lazy full-body program from earlier in the year. I know much of this is muscle-memory/newbie-gains reset, but its nice to see.

Questions/Thoughts:
- Most people on PPL-style programs have A/B days. Is it worth implementing this early on? I can see the pros, but could slow down progress, as I'm still adding weight or reps to the big movements, might be better to wait until the progress curve flattens?
- I'd like to add a third back movement to my back day, but I'm so taxed after taking Lat PD and T-Bar Rows to failure that I fear it may be junk volume. I did find out that my gym has a Lat Pullover machine that I'd love to try, perhaps I can add some of that as a finisher? What are your guys thoughts on this? I was also considering moving the T-Bar Rows first, as they're the hardest, but on the same front, I feel like the Lat Pulldowns do the most work to get that wide lat look I like, so I'd like to be freshest on the movement that gives me the best aesthetic returns.

Goals:
- I want to be lean, first goal is 15% BF, then 12% BF and assess from there. That's not lean for you guys, but it is for me.
- I don't have any aspirations to get hulking big. My physique north star is Zyzz (typical, I know). I know that's very difficult to achieve, but that's just an idea of the absolute ideal, rather than the actual goal.
- I love the look of big side delts (don't we all), I would love to get them at least somewhat visually distinct. That's why I sprinkle some delt volume in every session.

Weight since the start of the cut​

Here's a chart of my weights (each point is a weigh-in) from throughout the cut:



Kinda sucks to only be down like 5lbs in 5 weeks, but I'm just trusting the process. I'm weighing out my food, logging every bit of oil in the pan, any sauce, etc. I'm training hard, doing my cardio. I've seen this enough times that it doesn't bother me much, but it'll be nice to start seeing an accelerated rate of change.

Feedback​

I'd welcome any thoughts/ideas you guys have. Did I leave anything out?

Updates to come​

I'll try to make my logs interesting enough, although no crazy cycles or gains to speak of. Just burning my bitch tits and gut.

 

[docpepper]

Weighed in at 214.2 this morning! New low, breaking out of the 216-222 range I’ve been stuck in since the start of the PSMF.

Did legs yesterday, rest day today.

The NY Giants need to fire everyone.

 

[docpepper]

Weigh in today: 215.2

Hit back today, hit the Nautilus Lat Pullover machine as a back finisher and man, I really like it. Apparently they're pretty rare to find so I'm lucky my gym has a lot of that old stuff.

I switched the order of my back movements too. Doing the T-Bar row first, was noticing I was getting too taxed to really get the best quality sets ono it, so I think it just makes sense to do the tried-and-true thing and do the strength movement first. Still pretty weak on the T-Bar Row even when I came to it fresh as the first movement, loaded up 2 plates and hitting 7-8 reps. The big strength movements is where I really feel the lack of carbs and deep-in-a-cut coming in.

Here's a question, I get a strange tinge in my shoulder towards the end of my Lat Pulldown sets, specifically at the max stretch at the top. Might be too much for my 5'6 T-Rex arms to get that full stretch, idk. Feel like my form is fine, but maybe I should ask one of the jacked guys at my gym to give it a quick look on my next back day.

On my drive home realized I completely forgot cardio. Won't forget tomorrow.

Today's food was 15oz of chicken, 2 scoops of protein, and a protein bar. Try not to have more than one fake-protein thing a day because I'm not gonna eat like that in maintenance so I'm trying to build the habits of ordinary eating, but I needed that last 20g so just popped a protein bar.

 

[docpepper]

Weigh in today: 216.2

Chest day today. i took my 5mg clialis PWO today, whereas I usually take it later in the day along with Dutasteride and vitamins. Damn, I really felt crazy quad pumps on the stair master. For some reason my cardio felt really good today and I wasn’t getting winded even at much higher speeds. It was actually the calf and quad pump that made me stop rather than being winded, super interesting experience lol.

1,284 calories today. Found a great lazy PSMF recipe, sous vide chicken breast heavily coated in Greek seasoning dipped in Tzatziki. Gotta chop up some onions and lettuce and shit tomorrow and make it a proper gyro bowl.

 

[BabaJagga]

for the back, you seem to do too little and for chest for example too much.
back is huge, you have upper traps with read delts, mid traps, lower back... i would move tricep to different day if you are too tired after back excercises.

pullover machine is nice as first excercise as its not taxing on your bicep at all. also your grip wont give up. you preexhaust your lats a bit and finish them on different excercise.

tbar rows, are you tryin to target your upper back, so elbows up?

i would add hyperextensions for lower back for sure. some variation on rows, either one hand (dumbells, machines) or barbell.

rope pulldowns on cables are good for lats as well. shrugs for upper back.

also, if you are doin 9 sets for chest, you are not goin hard enough. trust me.

good luck on weight loss, i had brutal cut this summer as well.

 

[Rbvasques]

Doing great,
I like that you are focusing on diet and training instead of ped/fat burners.

Tbh,i think your vacation saved you, body’s metabolism quickly adapt to the calorie deficit, and make the progress slow down.

Id consider adding small hgh dose to keep muscle, help with collagen synthesis for the skin not to look extra loose, and also does add some fat burning through another pathway.

Im also documenting in another topic my body transformation, went from 41% bf to 15%, now im bulking and will get back to cutting laster on the year ( attached image for details)

 

[docpepper]

for the back, you seem to do too little and for chest for example too much.
back is huge, you have upper traps with read delts, mid traps, lower back... i would move tricep to different day if you are too tired after back excercises.

pullover machine is nice as first excercise as its not taxing on your bicep at all. also your grip wont give up. you preexhaust your lats a bit and finish them on different excercise.

tbar rows, are you tryin to target your upper back, so elbows up?

i would add hyperextensions for lower back for sure. some variation on rows, either one hand (dumbells, machines) or barbell.

rope pulldowns on cables are good for lats as well. shrugs for upper back.

also, if you are doin 9 sets for chest, you are not goin hard enough. trust me.

good luck on weight loss, i had brutal cut this summer as well.

I've kinda felt the same lately, that I just don't do enough for back. And back when I was actually somewhat strong, my deads and rows always lagged so I think it's a weaker area for me more generally. Just after those 6 sets, I'm so fucking fried. But adding the lat pullover works, takes the biceps and arms mostly out of it so I can completely focus on just that lat squeeze. My lats are still kinda sore from it, which indicates to me that I've been using more bicep than I thought on Pulldowns/Rows. I'm thinking of hiring a lifting coach for a few sessions just to help me get form/mind-muscle connection right.

For T-Bar Rows, I use the lower 45deg handle, the one this guy is using:

I try to focus on driving my elbows closer to my hips rather than flaring them out, so the opposite of the elbows-flared you're asking about. I don't quite remember where I got these mental cues from, but the goal is to build the "wide" lats that build the V-taper. The whole targeting aspect of bodybuilding is very new to me so I might be doing the wrong thing to do what I want but I feel like all the YouTube guys say conflicting shit so I've just been sticking with the same grips/angles, and plan to switch them up every ~8-12 weeks.

With regard to your specific recommendations, how many back sets do you think is appropriate for this situation? I take it more than six, but you've also recommended a handful of exercises, I'm not sure if they're just ideas to pick from or if you recommend doing all of them in addition to the three back movements I'm already doing.

And I never really considered the idea of doing more 'isolation' back movements that target stuff like traps or rhomboids, my idea of isolation movements up til now have just been delts/arms, so honestly adding a couple non-taxing targeted back movements sounds like a really fun change-up compared to doing a new curl or lateral raise variation.

As for 9 sets on chest, I really am pushing each set to failure, where the weight just won't move another inch, even push out a few partial reps out at the end often. The drawback here is that after doing that for 2-3 sets on the press machine, I have to drop the weight back on pec deck and cable chest press quite a bit, so I can see how the volume might skew junky, but I'm like 80% sure I'm going to failure, getting to that last grindy rep and pushing until it just won't move anymore. I will concede however that I've heard Lyle McDonald talk about how all his clients "think" they're going to failure and when he watches their set, there's often reps in the tank, so maybe there's another level I just haven't tapped into. Don't know what I don't know. Something to consider is that I'm pretty detrained, so my failure with 2 wheels and change on chest press machine is nowhere as difficult/taxing as yours likely is.

With that said, though, do you think I should chop the chest volume down to 6-7 sets and just focus on higher quality sets / better movements? Any recommendations on that front?

I did change things up slightly yesterday, I changed Pec Deck to cable flies, which feel sooo much better not only in chest activation but on my rotator cuff as well. And since cable chest press and cable flies feel somewhat similar, instead of just banging out the cable presses, I hit the dip machine which felt much fresher, felt like I had more stamina in the tank to get higher quality sets on the dips rather than a press finisher. Feel like these three movements gel together well in terms of hitting the chest differently and not doing redundant volume. Any thoughts?

Also, I've read a lot of your log on here. I've been so impressed with it, you've become a fuckin monster dude. Massive motivation for me, especially considering you started from a similar place.

Doing great,
I like that you are focusing on diet and training instead of ped/fat burners.

Tbh,i think your vacation saved you, body’s metabolism quickly adapt to the calorie deficit, and make the progress slow down.

Id consider adding small hgh dose to keep muscle, help with collagen synthesis for the skin not to look extra loose, and also does add some fat burning through another pathway.

Im also documenting in another topic my body transformation, went from 41% bf to 15%, now im bulking and will get back to cutting laster on the year ( attached image for details)

Thank you brother. Honestly it'd feel a little embarassing being obese and blasting PEDs lmao. Same goes for fat burners, my RHR is already in the 80s, throwing Clen on top of that feels like too much stress, esp given that Reta modestly raises RHR as it is.

With regard to metabolic adaption, it's obviously a real thing, but I don't think if it's a *massive* factor when you're obese. If I go several weeks with unexpectedly low weight loss despite adherence and strict food-measuring, a week or two of near-maintenance might be necessary but I don't see that being needed. I've done lots of low-calorie diets before and have never had much of an issue with metabolic slowdown personally.

I do have some HGH laying around, maybe like 15 10iu vials. I ran it for a month earlier this year and pulled it because it was a bit annoying to pin everyday and it was just another compound in the stack to account for. Do you find it to be a reasonably significant boost for fat loss? I read mixed things here, and a lot of you guys are sub-12% BF and need every boost you can when your body is fighting you so hard to cut fat. The loose skin thing is very interesting, there's another user on here that has been reporting pretty impressive skin tightening after big weight loss from running GH.

I'll definitely check out your log man, I love the fat-loss logs that go on long enough to become bulk logs haha, that's like the ultimate victory is to be a fat guy and eventually get to bulk. That image you attached is really cool, did you get several DEXA scans over time, really cool to see the changes in your lean mass in response to the dieting phase you were in at the time.

 

[BabaJagga]

I've kinda felt the same lately, that I just don't do enough for back. And back when I was actually somewhat strong, my deads and rows always lagged so I think it's a weaker area for me more generally. Just after those 6 sets, I'm so fucking fried. But adding the lat pullover works, takes the biceps and arms mostly out of it so I can completely focus on just that lat squeeze. My lats are still kinda sore from it, which indicates to me that I've been using more bicep than I thought on Pulldowns/Rows. I'm thinking of hiring a lifting coach for a few sessions just to help me get form/mind-muscle connection right.

For T-Bar Rows, I use the lower 45deg handle, the one this guy is using:
View attachment 350565
I try to focus on driving my elbows closer to my hips rather than flaring them out, so the opposite of the elbows-flared you're asking about. I don't quite remember where I got these mental cues from, but the goal is to build the "wide" lats that build the V-taper. The whole targeting aspect of bodybuilding is very new to me so I might be doing the wrong thing to do what I want but I feel like all the YouTube guys say conflicting shit so I've just been sticking with the same grips/angles, and plan to switch them up every ~8-12 weeks.

With regard to your specific recommendations, how many back sets do you think is appropriate for this situation? I take it more than six, but you've also recommended a handful of exercises, I'm not sure if they're just ideas to pick from or if you recommend doing all of them in addition to the three back movements I'm already doing.

And I never really considered the idea of doing more 'isolation' back movements that target stuff like traps or rhomboids, my idea of isolation movements up til now have just been delts/arms, so honestly adding a couple non-taxing targeted back movements sounds like a really fun change-up compared to doing a new curl or lateral raise variation.

As for 9 sets on chest, I really am pushing each set to failure, where the weight just won't move another inch, even push out a few partial reps out at the end often. The drawback here is that after doing that for 2-3 sets on the press machine, I have to drop the weight back on pec deck and cable chest press quite a bit, so I can see how the volume might skew junky, but I'm like 80% sure I'm going to failure, getting to that last grindy rep and pushing until it just won't move anymore. I will concede however that I've heard Lyle McDonald talk about how all his clients "think" they're going to failure and when he watches their set, there's often reps in the tank, so maybe there's another level I just haven't tapped into. Don't know what I don't know. Something to consider is that I'm pretty detrained, so my failure with 2 wheels and change on chest press machine is nowhere as difficult/taxing as yours likely is.

With that said, though, do you think I should chop the chest volume down to 6-7 sets and just focus on higher quality sets / better movements? Any recommendations on that front?

I did change things up slightly yesterday, I changed Pec Deck to cable flies, which feel sooo much better not only in chest activation but on my rotator cuff as well. And since cable chest press and cable flies feel somewhat similar, instead of just banging out the cable presses, I hit the dip machine which felt much fresher, felt like I had more stamina in the tank to get higher quality sets on the dips rather than a press finisher. Feel like these three movements gel together well in terms of hitting the chest differently and not doing redundant volume. Any thoughts?

Also, I've read a lot of your log on here. I've been so impressed with it, you've become a fuckin monster dude. Massive motivation for me, especially considering you started from a similar place.



Thank you brother. Honestly it'd feel a little embarassing being obese and blasting PEDs lmao. Same goes for fat burners, my RHR is already in the 80s, throwing Clen on top of that feels like too much stress, esp given that Reta modestly raises RHR as it is.

With regard to metabolic adaption, it's obviously a real thing, but I don't think if it's a *massive* factor when you're obese. If I go several weeks with unexpectedly low weight loss despite adherence and strict food-measuring, a week or two of near-maintenance might be necessary but I don't see that being needed. I've done lots of low-calorie diets before and have never had much of an issue with metabolic slowdown personally.

I do have some HGH laying around, maybe like 15 10iu vials. I ran it for a month earlier this year and pulled it because it was a bit annoying to pin everyday and it was just another compound in the stack to account for. Do you find it to be a reasonably significant boost for fat loss? I read mixed things here, and a lot of you guys are sub-12% BF and need every boost you can when your body is fighting you so hard to cut fat. The loose skin thing is very interesting, there's another user on here that has been reporting pretty impressive skin tightening after big weight loss from running GH.

I'll definitely check out your log man, I love the fat-loss logs that go on long enough to become bulk logs haha, that's like the ultimate victory is to be a fat guy and eventually get to bulk. That image you attached is really cool, did you get several DEXA scans over time, really cool to see the changes in your lean mass in response to the dieting phase you were in at the time.

look mate, its all confusing and its learning process. its hard to have good mind muscle connection with back especially. im lucky that i feel it very good.

if you are looking for tips, i think vest videos are from john meadows / mountaindog1.
he has lot of good tips how to feel it better, elbow positions, how to do it safely etc. 10/10 recommend. if i need to improve my form on any excercise, i go to his channel.

i can give you idea how my week looks like.
PPL R PP R, in 7 days.

push - for chest its always flat dumbell chest press, machine press on incline, pecdeck. very rarely i do decline cable flies.
tricep extensions/pushdowns on cables, one behind the head/neck extension machine from panatta (not sure how its called) and sometimes machine dips
side and rear raises with dumbells, always with dropset(s) until i cant move them anymore and just hold 5kg dumbells.

pull - there i switch excercises a bit between 2 training days but ussually around 5 excercises, always barbell rows first. 2 excercises for bicep, Z bar curls, wide/narrow grip. sometimes hammer curls for pump with 10-12kg dumbells. but rarely. hyperextensions for lower back as last excercise

i do this 2 times per week. every excercise has one all out "working" set until complete failure. very often with spotters help, i always try to ask someone around to help me exhaust negative part as well, end with partials and/or hold. when im with one of my juicy powerlifter friend, we try to push each other even more, more forced reps. less time between sets, more dropsets etc.

so 3 excercises for chest, 3 sets. its always one all out set and i exhaust myself completly.
same for back / pull excercises. its harder there cause its bigger muscle group, more pain. but its always one all out working set, after that im cooked. with back i cant do many dropsets for example, 1-2 max per training day, its super taxing.

its basicly dorian yates's style of training. its kind of brutal ussually. i belive that training intensity is thing you learn, you train your muscles but mind as well, every training day im able to push liiitle bit more.

if you can do 9 "working" sets, you are not goin to failure for sure. but again, you will learn that in your journey. ofc, if you like that training style, some people dont like it and cant/dont wanna push that hard.

anyway, focus on back more for sure. find excercises where you feel good mind muscle connection, try to learn about how to "activate" this and that part of back and structure your training with that knowleage.

if you are training back only once per week, you should be able to do much, much more cause you have longer time to recover from it. i cant recover from more than 5, maaaybe 6 sets twice per week. my back is ussually sore until i train it again.

and thanks for rrading my log, its nice that i dont write it for myself only

 

[BabaJagga]

I've kinda felt the same lately, that I just don't do enough for back. And back when I was actually somewhat strong, my deads and rows always lagged so I think it's a weaker area for me more generally. Just after those 6 sets, I'm so fucking fried. But adding the lat pullover works, takes the biceps and arms mostly out of it so I can completely focus on just that lat squeeze. My lats are still kinda sore from it, which indicates to me that I've been using more bicep than I thought on Pulldowns/Rows. I'm thinking of hiring a lifting coach for a few sessions just to help me get form/mind-muscle connection right.

For T-Bar Rows, I use the lower 45deg handle, the one this guy is using:
View attachment 350565
I try to focus on driving my elbows closer to my hips rather than flaring them out, so the opposite of the elbows-flared you're asking about. I don't quite remember where I got these mental cues from, but the goal is to build the "wide" lats that build the V-taper. The whole targeting aspect of bodybuilding is very new to me so I might be doing the wrong thing to do what I want but I feel like all the YouTube guys say conflicting shit so I've just been sticking with the same grips/angles, and plan to switch them up every ~8-12 weeks.

With regard to your specific recommendations, how many back sets do you think is appropriate for this situation? I take it more than six, but you've also recommended a handful of exercises, I'm not sure if they're just ideas to pick from or if you recommend doing all of them in addition to the three back movements I'm already doing.

And I never really considered the idea of doing more 'isolation' back movements that target stuff like traps or rhomboids, my idea of isolation movements up til now have just been delts/arms, so honestly adding a couple non-taxing targeted back movements sounds like a really fun change-up compared to doing a new curl or lateral raise variation.

As for 9 sets on chest, I really am pushing each set to failure, where the weight just won't move another inch, even push out a few partial reps out at the end often. The drawback here is that after doing that for 2-3 sets on the press machine, I have to drop the weight back on pec deck and cable chest press quite a bit, so I can see how the volume might skew junky, but I'm like 80% sure I'm going to failure, getting to that last grindy rep and pushing until it just won't move anymore. I will concede however that I've heard Lyle McDonald talk about how all his clients "think" they're going to failure and when he watches their set, there's often reps in the tank, so maybe there's another level I just haven't tapped into. Don't know what I don't know. Something to consider is that I'm pretty detrained, so my failure with 2 wheels and change on chest press machine is nowhere as difficult/taxing as yours likely is.

With that said, though, do you think I should chop the chest volume down to 6-7 sets and just focus on higher quality sets / better movements? Any recommendations on that front?

I did change things up slightly yesterday, I changed Pec Deck to cable flies, which feel sooo much better not only in chest activation but on my rotator cuff as well. And since cable chest press and cable flies feel somewhat similar, instead of just banging out the cable presses, I hit the dip machine which felt much fresher, felt like I had more stamina in the tank to get higher quality sets on the dips rather than a press finisher. Feel like these three movements gel together well in terms of hitting the chest differently and not doing redundant volume. Any thoughts?

Also, I've read a lot of your log on here. I've been so impressed with it, you've become a fuckin monster dude. Massive motivation for me, especially considering you started from a similar place.



Thank you brother. Honestly it'd feel a little embarassing being obese and blasting PEDs lmao. Same goes for fat burners, my RHR is already in the 80s, throwing Clen on top of that feels like too much stress, esp given that Reta modestly raises RHR as it is.

With regard to metabolic adaption, it's obviously a real thing, but I don't think if it's a *massive* factor when you're obese. If I go several weeks with unexpectedly low weight loss despite adherence and strict food-measuring, a week or two of near-maintenance might be necessary but I don't see that being needed. I've done lots of low-calorie diets before and have never had much of an issue with metabolic slowdown personally.

I do have some HGH laying around, maybe like 15 10iu vials. I ran it for a month earlier this year and pulled it because it was a bit annoying to pin everyday and it was just another compound in the stack to account for. Do you find it to be a reasonably significant boost for fat loss? I read mixed things here, and a lot of you guys are sub-12% BF and need every boost you can when your body is fighting you so hard to cut fat. The loose skin thing is very interesting, there's another user on here that has been reporting pretty impressive skin tightening after big weight loss from running GH.

I'll definitely check out your log man, I love the fat-loss logs that go on long enough to become bulk logs haha, that's like the ultimate victory is to be a fat guy and eventually get to bulk. That image you attached is really cool, did you get several DEXA scans over time, really cool to see the changes in your lean mass in response to the dieting phase you were in at the time.

also, from my very recent experience, its hard to hold more than 1000kcal daily deficit. ive kost 20kg in exactly 15 weeks, thats around 1300-1400kcal deficit daily. some days more, some less. but training was brutal, still 5x per week in gym. in second part i was exhausted so much that i couldnt do bike as cardio much. very little at the end.

also, you dont need 2 weeks of maintenance phases. you need some refeed days with carbs mainly but thats 1-2 days wvery 10-14 days depending on your bf% and training intensity. body just need a break every so often.

save clen for last stage to push last bits of fat away cause you will be exhausted. i have it in stash but didnt use it cause of high anabolic load, i didnt wanna stress my body more.

for fat burners, idk if anything "regular" will help. at the end of the day, kcal in vs kcal out, enough protein, training in gym and mg's of test matter.

try to save all carbs around training so you can keep intensity as high as possible.
i dont think you are in danger of loosing muscle mass, if so it will be very little and you will regain it quickly.

one good advice that helped me big time ... do progress pics. a lot of them. i had 2-3 moments like "im done with it cant do it, its not worth it" .. then i checked how i looked like xy weeks ago and pushed further. just dont give up. its worth it.


.......also, train your ass (glutes)... i have somewhat flat ass after cut and it looks funny.

 

[Banana Joe]

I am not gonna read all those wall-S of text, but why not just up the dose of test? More muscle will burn more calories, this is really not that complicated.
Nobody ever died from upping the test dose from 140mg to 200/250mg.

Been there, done that. Took more test, ate more food, did more cardio, trained my ass off, lost fat. Lost barely any weight in the process.

 

[docpepper]

Weigh in today: 216.0

Hit legs today. No more PWO cialis for me lol, quad pumps are too much during leg extensions.

Ravenous after gym today, ate some extra chicken, total calories for the day are 1,491.

look mate, its all confusing and its learning process. its hard to have good mind muscle connection with back especially. im lucky that i feel it very good.

if you are looking for tips, i think vest videos are from john meadows / mountaindog1.
he has lot of good tips how to feel it better, elbow positions, how to do it safely etc. 10/10 recommend. if i need to improve my form on any excercise, i go to his channel.

i can give you idea how my week looks like.
PPL R PP R, in 7 days.

push - for chest its always flat dumbell chest press, machine press on incline, pecdeck. very rarely i do decline cable flies.
tricep extensions/pushdowns on cables, one behind the head/neck extension machine from panatta (not sure how its called) and sometimes machine dips
side and rear raises with dumbells, always with dropset(s) until i cant move them anymore and just hold 5kg dumbells.

pull - there i switch excercises a bit between 2 training days but ussually around 5 excercises, always barbell rows first. 2 excercises for bicep, Z bar curls, wide/narrow grip. sometimes hammer curls for pump with 10-12kg dumbells. but rarely. hyperextensions for lower back as last excercise

i do this 2 times per week. every excercise has one all out "working" set until complete failure. very often with spotters help, i always try to ask someone around to help me exhaust negative part as well, end with partials and/or hold. when im with one of my juicy powerlifter friend, we try to push each other even more, more forced reps. less time between sets, more dropsets etc.

so 3 excercises for chest, 3 sets. its always one all out set and i exhaust myself completly.
same for back / pull excercises. its harder there cause its bigger muscle group, more pain. but its always one all out working set, after that im cooked. with back i cant do many dropsets for example, 1-2 max per training day, its super taxing.

its basicly dorian yates's style of training. its kind of brutal ussually. i belive that training intensity is thing you learn, you train your muscles but mind as well, every training day im able to push liiitle bit more.

if you can do 9 "working" sets, you are not goin to failure for sure. but again, you will learn that in your journey. ofc, if you like that training style, some people dont like it and cant/dont wanna push that hard.

anyway, focus on back more for sure. find excercises where you feel good mind muscle connection, try to learn about how to "activate" this and that part of back and structure your training with that knowleage.

if you are training back only once per week, you should be able to do much, much more cause you have longer time to recover from it. i cant recover from more than 5, maaaybe 6 sets twice per week. my back is ussually sore until i train it again.

and thanks for rrading my log, its nice that i dont write it for myself only

Ditto on Meadows, I've seen a few of his clips (RIP), gonna check more of his vids out.

As for your all-out set, is that the first or last set for that exercise?

As for the 9 working sets, I do either get less reps or drop the weight, so I guess they're not actually working sets, because I'm not hitting the intended weight/rep-range. Usually it'll be something like I get 10-11 reps on the first set, 7-8 reps on the second, and have to drop the weight on the third just to get into that 8-12 range. So you were right and I was misunderstanding what a working set was.

also, from my very recent experience, its hard to hold more than 1000kcal daily deficit. ive kost 20kg in exactly 15 weeks, thats around 1300-1400kcal deficit daily. some days more, some less. but training was brutal, still 5x per week in gym. in second part i was exhausted so much that i couldnt do bike as cardio much. very little at the end.

also, you dont need 2 weeks of maintenance phases. you need some refeed days with carbs mainly but thats 1-2 days wvery 10-14 days depending on your bf% and training intensity. body just need a break every so often.

save clen for last stage to push last bits of fat away cause you will be exhausted. i have it in stash but didnt use it cause of high anabolic load, i didnt wanna stress my body more.

for fat burners, idk if anything "regular" will help. at the end of the day, kcal in vs kcal out, enough protein, training in gym and mg's of test matter.

try to save all carbs around training so you can keep intensity as high as possible.
i dont think you are in danger of loosing muscle mass, if so it will be very little and you will regain it quickly.

one good advice that helped me big time ... do progress pics. a lot of them. i had 2-3 moments like "im done with it cant do it, its not worth it" .. then i checked how i looked like xy weeks ago and pushed further. just dont give up. its worth it.


.......also, train your ass (glutes)... i have somewhat flat ass after cut and it looks funny.

Yeah man, it's easy right now, but that second half of these crash diets are fuckin tough. In the past I would up the cardio more and wonder why I was so fucking tired all the time... logic was that if my body's burning my bodyfat for energy, why is it so fucking tired, it's being fed anyways! Didn't understand how it worked really.

I'm looking out for overtiredness and shit, and if it comes up, might have to dial back the volume/frequency of training a bit.

The way I'm going now with refeed meals/days is when it gets too much, I'm gonna take one, but not take one just to take one, ya know.

Lotta nuggets in here. I've been slacking on progress pics, gonna go take one now. Maybe I'll post some here soon when I see some real progress.

I am not gonna read all those wall-S of text, but why not just up the dose of test? More muscle will burn more calories, this is really not that complicated.
Nobody ever died from upping the test dose from 140mg to 200/250mg.

Been there, done that. Took more test, ate more food, did more cardio, trained my ass off, lost fat. Lost barely any weight in the process.

Yeah I'm a yapper lol. I used to write for a living so I just zone out and can type forever.

Test-wise, I've been thinking about it, but I'm worried about it being a little rough on my obese heart. I take my BP like once a week and I'm great, but my HCT runs 51-52 on my 140mg dose. 200-250 might bring me to like syrup levels. Hoping cardio and fat loss will smooth that out so I can run some TRT+ later in this cut.

Maybe I'm just being a pansy, lol.

 

[JG91]

Weigh in today: 216.0

Hit legs today. No more PWO cialis for me lol, quad pumps are too much during leg extensions.

Ravenous after gym today, ate some extra chicken, total calories for the day are 1,491.


Ditto on Meadows, I've seen a few of his clips (RIP), gonna check more of his vids out.

As for your all-out set, is that the first or last set for that exercise?

As for the 9 working sets, I do either get less reps or drop the weight, so I guess they're not actually working sets, because I'm not hitting the intended weight/rep-range. Usually it'll be something like I get 10-11 reps on the first set, 7-8 reps on the second, and have to drop the weight on the third just to get into that 8-12 range. So you were right and I was misunderstanding what a working set was.




Yeah man, it's easy right now, but that second half of these crash diets are fuckin tough. In the past I would up the cardio more and wonder why I was so fucking tired all the time... logic was that if my body's burning my bodyfat for energy, why is it so fucking tired, it's being fed anyways! Didn't understand how it worked really.

I'm looking out for overtiredness and shit, and if it comes up, might have to dial back the volume/frequency of training a bit.

The way I'm going now with refeed meals/days is when it gets too much, I'm gonna take one, but not take one just to take one, ya know.

Lotta nuggets in here. I've been slacking on progress pics, gonna go take one now. Maybe I'll post some here soon when I see some real progress.


Yeah I'm a yapper lol. I used to write for a living so I just zone out and can type forever.

Test-wise, I've been thinking about it, but I'm worried about it being a little rough on my obese heart. I take my BP like once a week and I'm great, but my HCT runs 51-52 on my 140mg dose. 200-250 might bring me to like syrup levels. Hoping cardio and fat loss will smooth that out so I can run some TRT+ later in this cut.

Maybe I'm just being a pansy, lol.

At your body fat you are likely to aromatize like crazy. But that can be controlled with ai or primo. But if your on higher test and primo your just on cycle. And that’s fine.

I think you’re doing the best thing focusing on diet and training. I’d consider filming some of your lifting to see if your actually lifting with any intensity and how your form is.

The hgh suggestion is a good one though. I’d also look into ghk copper to help with the loose skin that is going to develop. Better to start that early.

 

[BabaJagga]

Weigh in today: 216.0

Hit legs today. No more PWO cialis for me lol, quad pumps are too much during leg extensions.

Ravenous after gym today, ate some extra chicken, total calories for the day are 1,491.


Ditto on Meadows, I've seen a few of his clips (RIP), gonna check more of his vids out.

As for your all-out set, is that the first or last set for that exercise?

As for the 9 working sets, I do either get less reps or drop the weight, so I guess they're not actually working sets, because I'm not hitting the intended weight/rep-range. Usually it'll be something like I get 10-11 reps on the first set, 7-8 reps on the second, and have to drop the weight on the third just to get into that 8-12 range. So you were right and I was misunderstanding what a working set was.




Yeah man, it's easy right now, but that second half of these crash diets are fuckin tough. In the past I would up the cardio more and wonder why I was so fucking tired all the time... logic was that if my body's burning my bodyfat for energy, why is it so fucking tired, it's being fed anyways! Didn't understand how it worked really.

I'm looking out for overtiredness and shit, and if it comes up, might have to dial back the volume/frequency of training a bit.

The way I'm going now with refeed meals/days is when it gets too much, I'm gonna take one, but not take one just to take one, ya know.

Lotta nuggets in here. I've been slacking on progress pics, gonna go take one now. Maybe I'll post some here soon when I see some real progress.


Yeah I'm a yapper lol. I used to write for a living so I just zone out and can type forever.

Test-wise, I've been thinking about it, but I'm worried about it being a little rough on my obese heart. I take my BP like once a week and I'm great, but my HCT runs 51-52 on my 140mg dose. 200-250 might bring me to like syrup levels. Hoping cardio and fat loss will smooth that out so I can run some TRT+ later in this cut.

Maybe I'm just being a pansy, lol.

first set is around 50% of my max, then 75-80% (someone would call it working set) and then all out. anything after that is pointless. ive wrote a bit about my training style im my log.

if you have issue with high hct, check sodium/magnesium/pottasium balance and drink more water. my ussuall day i drink around 5-6l, daily.

with that aggresive cut, younare supposed to be tired..

 

[docpepper]

Weigh in today: 213.6 - new low!

Rest day. Under ate today, 650 cals.
Much clearer trend on my weight chart since starting the PSMF:

first set is around 50% of my max, then 75-80% (someone would call it working set) and then all out. anything after that is pointless. ive wrote a bit about my training style im my log.

if you have issue with high hct, check sodium/magnesium/pottasium balance and drink more water. my ussuall day i drink around 5-6l, daily.

with that aggresive cut, younare supposed to be tired..

Good advice. I'll add some Lite Salt (potassium salt) to my meat seasonings.

 

[docpepper]

Weigh in today: 215.

Took another rest day and got some extra sleep. Felt it was needed.

Much needed back day tomorrow.

 

[docpepper]

At your body fat you are likely to aromatize like crazy. But that can be controlled with ai or primo. But if your on higher test and primo your just on cycle. And that’s fine.

I think you’re doing the best thing focusing on diet and training. I’d consider filming some of your lifting to see if your actually lifting with any intensity and how your form is.

The hgh suggestion is a good one though. I’d also look into ghk copper to help with the loose skin that is going to develop. Better to start that early.

Yeah, my E2 runs at 55 pg/mL on my current 140mg dose (1250 TT, 221 pg/mL FT), compared to 40 pg/mL natty. So yeah, I'm not an exception to the fatty high E2 rule.

Bumping up to 200-250mg would definitely require an AI, which like you said, ain't a big deal. I have plenty of adex on hand. Dialing it in might be a pain, but I could always start super conservative and do like an 8th of a pill EOD and raise dose with bloodwork confirmation.

I think I'm gonna hold off another 10-20lbs to boost the dose though. I feel fine right now and don't wanna put too much stress on my body. Feel like I should at least somewhat "earn" the right to do some TRT+ - good motivation to get leaner. Will also just be easier to manage E2.

As per HGH, I already have about 150iu sitting in the fridge now, enough for 3+ months at 1.5iu per day. My IGF-1 z-score runs around -1.0 SD, so arguably I should already be running low dose GH.

Probably a good idea, along with some GHK. Sucks that the Chinese vendor situation is so up in the air right now. I ordered Reta via US Dom through SSA 3 days before they went dark and I chocked it up to a loss. I decided to give it a few days before just buying a 55mg kit from Opti and then it arrived in the mail a few days later. Last chopper out of Saigon.

I think I mentioned earlier in this thread that I saw another user see some really great skin-looseness improvements from GH + GHK, although he's not 100% sure whether it was soley attributable to them, the results speak for themselves. It was @adrenalytic - see post #38 in this thread, super impressive stuff:

Post in thread 'Reta + Glow update'

Sep 9, 2025

Disregarding scale weight, do you think the GH improved your body composition?

I started GH and haven't seen the scale change much, but I notice loosing fat in my lower and side chest, and back of my waist. I look different every morning. But the scale isn't really budging.

Yes, I do believe it played a role but I'll never know how much since I was absolutely busting my ass at the same time. I mainly began using GH for the skin tightening benefits/anti-aging. I still use it to this day and my stomach looks less and and less like a one-eyed Scream mask every day.

Here is a...

• adrenalytic

• 

 

[adrenalytic]

Run the GHK in cycles. 8 weeks on 8 weeks off. Diminishing returns happens at about week 6-8 so it's good to take a break to allow for re-sensitization and downstream signaling reset.

Congrats on your progress so far! Steady loss will serve you best in terms of sustainability.

 

[docpepper]

Weigh in yesterday (Sunday): 214

Weigh in today: 212.8

Feels good to finally feel the trend accelerate a bit. I was in that +/- 5lbs zone for a bit there where you can't even tell if you're shedding fat or just shifting water around.

Hit a nice chest day this morning.

Run the GHK in cycles. 8 weeks on 8 weeks off. Diminishing returns happens at about week 6-8 so it's good to take a break to allow for re-sensitization and downstream signaling reset.

Congrats on your progress so far! Steady loss will serve you best in terms of sustainability.

Thanks bro, your transformation is sick and is a big motivation.

What dose did you run GHK at, did you titrate at all? I've been looking around the forum and haven't found much of a consensus/protocol.

 

[BabaJagga]

Weigh in yesterday (Sunday): 214

Weigh in today: 212.8

Feels good to finally feel the trend accelerate a bit. I was in that +/- 5lbs zone for a bit there where you can't even tell if you're shedding fat or just shifting water around.

Hit a nice chest day this morning.



Thanks bro, your transformation is sick and is a big motivation.

What dose did you run GHK at, did you titrate at all? I've been looking around the forum and haven't found much of a consensus/protocol.

i belive that weight stall is water from cortisol. your body is tryin to not lose more weight so you keep bit of water extra.

 

[adrenalytic]

Weigh in yesterday (Sunday): 214

Weigh in today: 212.8

Feels good to finally feel the trend accelerate a bit. I was in that +/- 5lbs zone for a bit there where you can't even tell if you're shedding fat or just shifting water around.

Hit a nice chest day this morning.



Thanks bro, your transformation is sick and is a big motivation.

What dose did you run GHK at, did you titrate at all? I've been looking around the forum and haven't found much of a consensus/protocol.

Check out this writeup I did for someone else yesterday, should answer your questions and more. Short answer, keep it around 6-8 mg/day, start with 250 mcg per injections site to see how your skin reacts and titrate from there.

Just Wrapped My First Cycle (Pics)

Protip:

Get yourself one (or a couple if you inject a lot of peptides) of these.

Injector Pen

I have one for HGH, GHK-Cu, BPC-157, MOTS-C and a spare that I rotate around with a few different things. Super convenient and easy to set up.