My First cycle after 20 years

[DrGlove]

I had my dexa scan done this morning.

I am currently at 14.9% Total Body Fat of 10.950KG.
I have a lean mass of 62.679KG.
Bone Mass 3.204KG.

In September 2024 when I stopped my cut and started cycling bulking and mini cuts I clocked in at 62.5KG total body weight, so this is a vast difference from then.

I continue my final bulking phase for this year and will move over to maintenance/cutting in the new year. Any advise there will be greatly appreciated.

 

[DrGlove]

Is that the LDL from having your "diet dialled in"? This is pretty much as bad as mine, and I am already gear and have hereditary bad LDL, this paired with admittedly often a sub-par diet.


I have no trouble believing that you that you have, @Sampei.


Based on those stats, you could gain more muscle with just an appropriate diet and a workout plan that actually builds muscle, than you will in 10 weeks on a shitload of roids.
I've been in this game for a while, and this physique is not one stemming from hard and intensive workouts, while having your "diet dialed in".

All you people really need to get a grasp on reality, this is getting absolutely ridiculous. Precontest orals in first cycle in 20y, and training full body 3x a week.
There is no shame in roiding your socks off, as a middle aged man, but you gotta look the part first. If you can't even get to 12-13% BF, on let's say 200mg, while weighing in the 80's kg and your height, there is not even a point in starting such a cycle.

Get on decent HRT and see what you can achieve this way. 150mg, 2.5iu max., add ancillaries as needed.
Running a cycle, while trying to be a cyclist is just stupid.

I must be honest I am open to this idea, would this 150mg be taken weekly one time or split up and taken daily?

 

[BDawg00]

So after 20 years I decided to give this a go again.
Got my diet dialled in, training is on par and being entirely honest not getting any younger.

Grabbed 300x10mg Winstrol Tabs and 2x10ml vials of Test E and a 100 pack of Nolvadex for PCT.

Planned intake
50mg Winstrol (30mg first thing in the morning and 20mg after dinner at night)
TestE - 500mg weekly single shot.

I am 1.76cm. Dry weight 74kg.
I am also 99% Carnivore since over 3 years. So no carbs at all.
I live on steaks, eggs, bacon and butter.

I do drink coffee though. Very curious to see the effects of this combo.

Workout routine currently:
Mondays / Wednesday/ Friday - full body 2hrs.
Tuesdays / Thursdays / Sundays - MTB or cycling indoors.

I start today. Will keep my log here

Why did you stop 20 years ago?

 

[DrGlove]

Why did you stop 20 years ago?

I kept getting sick, every time I started a cycle I would get the flu mid cycle, so it became a bit of a lost cause for me at the time and I completely lost interest.

At this point in time I conceived all the children I am planning on ever having so at least that is one less concern regarding any recovery requirements

 

[BDawg00]

I kept getting sick, every time I started a cycle I would get the flu, so it became a bit of a lost cause for me at the time and I completely lost interest.

At this point in time I conceived all the children I am planning on ever having so at least that is one less concern regarding any recovery requirements

Nice bro best of luck

 

[Banana Joe]

I must be honest I am open to this idea, would this 150mg be taken weekly one time or split up and taken daily?

If Test E, I would inject 3x ew, if not daily. If you wanna save yourself the hassle, just take Test U 1x ew. If I don't run anything on top of it, I do Test U 1x ew too.
Note that the ester weight of Test U is higher, so 170mg of Test U are comparable to around 150mg of Test E.

 

[DrGlove]

Yeah at this point this seems more like trolling. Hasnt been a week and already enjoying the “power” lmao. Stuff doesn’t work like that. Pure placebo. Good luck to him though but just another guying wanting advice and shits on whatever is said and doesn’t acknowledge it at all because they got it all figured out. No understanding whatsoever the impact AAS has when combined with high fat diets to the body. He’s not even open to a conversation about any of it. I’m out of this one.

Bro I must respond at this point - the 'power' is from the Whinny, it does magix for endurance and oxygen in the bloodstream to the muscles which is why endurance athletes enjoy it so much, so I am not going all placebo on myself here, effects are usually felt in as little as 3-4 days and by Sunday I was pretty much 4 days in already.

I can also confirm it has helped with my revised workout plan, I am pushing harder and get myself those satisfactory DOMS

 

[DrGlove]

Week 1 Update: 3000kcal - Doing Push pull legs repeat +3.7KG from start - Clocked in at 77.7KG Today.

Arms and shoulders are filling out nicely

 

[Liter O' Test]

I did a carnivore cut for two months on a gram+ of test.
I didnt really get stronger or look better, then I ate carbs to fill back out and you'd think I started my cycle at that point. carbs are more anabolic than gear, no joke

 

[IndividualMan]

I did a carnivore cut for two months on a gram+ of test.
I didnt really get stronger or look better, then I ate carbs to fill back out and you'd think I started my cycle at that point. carbs are more anabolic than gear, no joke

genuinely. As a diabetic, I always wonder why people want to go into ketosis. it sucks so goddamn much. you look flatter, you are weaker and if you do not have 100 different retards people telling you "omg brah its so great you are so strong and primal and healthy" you are probably just going to stop after 3-5 months of feeling bad. Carbs are king.

Only exceptions if you are avoiding foods that do not agree with your digestion by going carnivore, that might be the only way to actually get a feelz improvement on that stupid ass diet.

 

[DrGlove]

I did a carnivore cut for two months on a gram+ of test.
I didnt really get stronger or look better, then I ate carbs to fill back out and you'd think I started my cycle at that point. carbs are more anabolic than gear,

Let me say 'IF' - (big if)
So IF at any point I did decide I wanted to refill my muscles post workout with glycogen quicker, (because that is the only scenario where I could fathom the potential benefit) then I do have raw dairy in my toolkit.

Now I did previously try this with a liter of raw milk pre-workout and that did nothing for me.

Perhaps as post workout recovery it may have some effect I don't know haven't tested it yet

But so far so good, technically week 3 just started and clocked in at 78.5kg this morning bone dry.

 

[Liter O' Test]

Let me say 'IF' - (big if)
So IF at any point I did decide I wanted to refill my muscles post workout with glycogen quicker, (because that is the only scenario where I could fathom the potential benefit) then I do have raw dairy in my toolkit.

Now I did previously try this with a liter of raw milk pre-workout and that did nothing for me.

Perhaps as post workout recovery it may have some effect I don't know haven't tested it yet

But so far so good, technically week 3 just started and clocked in at 78.5kg this morning bone dry.

its not going to work, i even added in 100 grams of sugar pre/intra workout. because my diet was so carb limited, all it did was make me feel bad and blood sugar spike because my body no longer processed carbs normally. not only is it such little carbs but they didnt fill me out or do anything since my diet was so carb restricted.


carbs are not bad, anything that says they are is psuedoscience and a minor detail in the bodies physiology taken out of context

the point of carnivore is health? so running gear with it negates it, and doing carnivore negates the gear, so its really useless. youre basically just trying to make up for the ineffectiveness of the carnivore diet by using gear. like a vegan bodybuilder using tren to make up for not eating meat. so health goes out the window. because winstrol and other gear is a hell of a lot more harmful than whatever you think carbs do, or wwhatever longevity magic you think only eating meat has

your diet makes no sense, it is a cult, truly

its all backwards, literally
use the bodies back up fuel source as primary (fats)
use gear to make up for not having carbs because carbs are unhealthy

your diet makes you small and fat
the fat you eat goes directly into the fat stores so you will never be shredded
you have no carbs for growth or performance
your metabolism is slow af
relying on protein for fuel and muscle repair

 

[DrGlove]

Let me say 'IF' - (big if)
So IF at any point I did decide I wanted to refill my muscles post workout with glycogen quicker, (because that is the only scenario where I could fathom the potential benefit) then I do have raw dairy in my toolkit.

Now I did previously try this with a liter of raw milk pre-workout and that did nothing for me.

Perhaps as post workout recovery it may have some effect I don't know haven't tested it yet

But so far so good, technically week 3 just started and clocked in at 78.5kg this morning bone dry.

But to be entirely honest the only literature that supports this goes on to suggest adding hundreds of grams of exogenous carbohydrates post workout which obviously I don't follow so there is that.

I will take one for the team and add a half liter dose post workout just for fun

 

[DrGlove]

its not going to work, i even added in 100 grams of sugar pre/intra workout. because my diet was so carb limited, all it did was make me feel bad and blood sugar spike because my body no longer processed carbs normally. not only is it such little carbs but they didnt fill me out or do anything since my diet was so carb restricted.


carbs are not bad, anything that says they are is psuedoscience and a minor detail in the bodies physiology taken out of context

the point of carnivore is health? so running gear with it negates it, and doing carnivore negates the gear, so its really useless. youre basically just trying to make up for the ineffectiveness of the carnivore diet by using gear. like a vegan bodybuilder using tren to make up for not eating meat. so health goes out the window. because winstrol and other gear is a hell of a lot more harmful than whatever you think carbs do, or wwhatever longevity magic you think only eating meat has

your diet makes no sense, it is a cult, truly

its all backwards, literally
use the bodies back up fuel source as primary (fats)
use gear to make up for not having carbs because carbs are unhealthy

your diet makes you small and fat
the fat you eat goes directly into the fat stores so you will never be shredded
you have no carbs for growth or performance
your metabolism is slow af
relying on protein for fuel and muscle repair

Thanks for the inputs, I looked at the digestion times and for me it makes no sense in that context, I reckon I will stick to what I am doing for the moment.

There will always be 'next time'

 

[DrGlove]

Thanks for the inputs, I looked at the digestion times and for me it makes no sense in that context, I reckon I will stick to what I am doing for the moment.

There will always be 'next time'

I should add this is an 'experiment' if you like.

Can I gain substantial or any lean mass at all eating this way on this cycle.

This is the test, N-1 experiment

Me and I

 

[DrGlove]

Today I start Week 4. Time for an Update.
80.6KG.
Gym this week was crazy, did stupid volume on my leg day, re-ignited an injury in my right shoulder from two years ago rolling tyres so going to back down on my bench a little and do converging chest press instead.
Loving doing Cable Crunches with 73KG. It looks crazy me trying to get on my knees doing it but lots of fun

Increased my food a little, settling on the 4000kcal mark for the moment. Its an insane amount of protein but its all good

 

[soisoyboi]

its not going to work, i even added in 100 grams of sugar pre/intra workout. because my diet was so carb limited, all it did was make me feel bad and blood sugar spike because my body no longer processed carbs normally. not only is it such little carbs but they didnt fill me out or do anything since my diet was so carb restricted.


carbs are not bad, anything that says they are is psuedoscience and a minor detail in the bodies physiology taken out of context

the point of carnivore is health? so running gear with it negates it, and doing carnivore negates the gear, so its really useless. youre basically just trying to make up for the ineffectiveness of the carnivore diet by using gear. like a vegan bodybuilder using tren to make up for not eating meat. so health goes out the window. because winstrol and other gear is a hell of a lot more harmful than whatever you think carbs do, or wwhatever longevity magic you think only eating meat has

your diet makes no sense, it is a cult, truly

its all backwards, literally
use the bodies back up fuel source as primary (fats)
use gear to make up for not having carbs because carbs are unhealthy

your diet makes you small and fat
the fat you eat goes directly into the fat stores so you will never be shredded
you have no carbs for growth or performance
your metabolism is slow af
relying on protein for fuel and muscle repair

Bad analogy. A vegan bodybuilder isnt taking tren to make up for not eating meat. You can be taking it to get the same effect as someone who eats animals. You can be natty carnivore or natty vegan for decades and you only get so far. All the physiques we want or love are generally from gear. Lots of vegan body builders these days and many are on gear and Im sure soon enough there will be some at the most upper levels. Meats not what we were taught it is, the carnivore diet is unhealthy af and will catch up to people. Vegan doesnt mean weak, it just means empathetic, health conscious and takes way better shits. Weirdly the same thing that has made me vegan for 20 years is the same reason why I would never compete even if I was at that level. For me its empathy and logic and Im not competitive in anything really. I like cooperation so even innocuous stuff like bodybuilding comps doesn't make me want to do it. I like watching all the nutbags and listening to the podcasts and yts. My diet is the cleanest its ever been and Im growing like a weed.The tren/primo/test/anavar helped i guess.

 

[white-boyka]

its not going to work, i even added in 100 grams of sugar pre/intra workout. because my diet was so carb limited, all it did was make me feel bad and blood sugar spike because my body no longer processed carbs normally. not only is it such little carbs but they didnt fill me out or do anything since my diet was so carb restricted.


carbs are not bad, anything that says they are is psuedoscience and a minor detail in the bodies physiology taken out of context

the point of carnivore is health? so running gear with it negates it, and doing carnivore negates the gear, so its really useless. youre basically just trying to make up for the ineffectiveness of the carnivore diet by using gear. like a vegan bodybuilder using tren to make up for not eating meat. so health goes out the window. because winstrol and other gear is a hell of a lot more harmful than whatever you think carbs do, or wwhatever longevity magic you think only eating meat has

your diet makes no sense, it is a cult, truly

its all backwards, literally
use the bodies back up fuel source as primary (fats)
use gear to make up for not having carbs because carbs are unhealthy

your diet makes you small and fat
the fat you eat goes directly into the fat stores so you will never be shredded
you have no carbs for growth or performance
your metabolism is slow af
relying on protein for fuel and muscle repair

genuinely. As a diabetic, I always wonder why people want to go into ketosis. it sucks so goddamn much. you look flatter, you are weaker and if you do not have 100 different retards people telling you "omg brah its so great you are so strong and primal and healthy" you are probably just going to stop after 3-5 months of feeling bad. Carbs are king.

Only exceptions if you are avoiding foods that do not agree with your digestion by going carnivore, that might be the only way to actually get a feelz improvement on that stupid ass diet.

You guys are just carb addicted to modern foods and can't/won't stop eating them like everyone else. The only potential argument for carb consumption if the increase in MUR and insulin spike they give. Aside from that it’s just pure energy that is completely nutritionally empty. You can get shredded and build muscle on whatever diet you wish. Everyone in the gym now consumes hundreds of nutritionally empty carbs a day and everyone in the gym looks like they don’t even lift, compared to the 70s and 80s where the whole diet was fatty meat, eggs, chicken and no carbs and all look infinitely better than gym goers today. To say that carnivore or no carbs negates gear is hilarious. “your diet makes you small and fat” yet you are probably fatter and smaller on higher amounts of year than those in the 70s.

Ric who trained with arnold:

View: https://youtu.be/8-EaHRfmgdY?si=qwHL82W8rCZC7X6N

 

[Liter O' Test]

You guys are just carb addicted to modern foods and can't/won't stop eating them like everyone else. The only potential argument for carb consumption if the increase in MUR and insulin spike they give. Aside from that it’s just pure energy that is completely nutritionally empty. You can get shredded and build muscle on whatever diet you wish. Everyone in the gym now consumes hundreds of nutritionally empty carbs a day and everyone in the gym looks like they don’t even lift, compared to the 70s and 80s where the whole diet was fatty meat, eggs, chicken and no carbs and all look infinitely better than gym goers today. To say that carnivore or no carbs negates gear is hilarious. “your diet makes you small and fat” yet you are probably fatter and smaller on higher amounts of year than those in the 70s.

Ric who trained with arnold:

View: https://youtu.be/8-EaHRfmgdY?si=qwHL82W8rCZC7X6N

so your argument is a few guys from 50 years ago?

remaining ignorant of every bit of science regarding the body and carbohydrates and muscle building and insulin etc.

youre another braindead in a cult, thats why you use the phrase "addicted" like all your other morons in your group

you just want to delude yourself into believing you are better than others, like vegans.

yeah im also "addicted" to water

 

[white-boyka]

so your argument is a few guys from 50 years ago?

Far better than the argument of “I’m addicted to water” LOL. Do you feel good coming up with that one? Water, protein and fats are necessary, unlike carbs.

My argument is that the guys from 50 years ago who ate no carbs and are bigger and leaner than you meanwhile you sit here and complain and cope with with “carbs are more anabolic than roids” since you can’t gain muscle while on a gram of gear LOL.

remaining ignorant of every bit of science regarding the body and carbohydrates and muscle building and insulin etc.

i mentioned carbs effects on insulin and MUR already. I never argued against the fact that carbs are ideal (people like tom platz switched from zero carb to carb diet, which you can see the interview on the same channel i linked) for muscle growth, but to say that no carbs negates gear usage and you can’t gain muscle while not eating them with it is laughable beyond belief and bs. Go tell that to Arnold, tom platz etc LOL. Genuine moron. We definitely evolved in 50 years to the point where it’s now humanly impossible to gain substantial muscle without carbs, didn’t we?