Defiant Pharma (US Domestic)

[AllGoodThings]

You got me intrigued.
Give me a week or two, I'll inject 120mg and draw labs.

I'm really curious about this too. On paper, it should aromatize quite a bit, but seeing it proven with testing would be nice. Like I said, I've not seen noticeable estrogenic sides with even frequent and (relatively) high doses. Looking forward to your results.

 

[onlyontrt]

All new vendors have been getting burnt lately. I want to give a shot but last one I did found plastic in the oils

 

[gobig2]

All new vendors have been getting burnt lately. I want to give a shot but last one I did found plastic in the oils

D not new brother.

 

[Dial It In]

All new vendors have been getting burnt lately. I want to give a shot but last one I did found plastic in the oils

D has been around a long time. You can also see unlike another popular source that loses raws, finds them and then it comes out it was Chinese oil at a significant markup. Defiant actually test oils and raws before giving members access. Hardware is great also. It is upgraded. He’s new to Meso but not the business

 

[Methyl Mike]

You got me intrigued.
Give me a week or two, I'll inject 120mg and draw labs.

To be fair I'm not sure exactly how to determine what you are trying to measure. If you want to get a realistic idea, you first need a baseline and from there pin 100mgs suspension (TNE same thing, I think) for a week straight and then pull labs and see if E2 has spiked.

I'm still not totally sold on what this tells us, variables genetics etc. but I can tell you test suspension should aromatize (mg for mg) more than esterfied test.

One more variable, is TNE the same as suspension? I don't recall hearing about it until recently. Test suspension is testosterone crystals in aqueus suspension. You have to shake it up before you pin it. Test without ester. Is TNE the same? I assume so?

On topic, propionate is considered to aromatize less than cyp or en and I don't think anyone gave a good reason why. I assumed it was simply lower total mg being absorbed combined with low body fat (prop usually used during prep) but again I really can't say to a certainty. Makes for interesting discussion.

 

[RockyP]

A lot of this will be user dependent. Some guys with take TNE and produce massive amounts of DHT instead of high E2. Depends on genetics, body fat, other compounds on board, etc.

 

[onlyontrt]

D has been around a long time. You can also see unlike another popular source that loses raws, finds them and then it comes out it was Chinese oil at a significant markup. Defiant actually test oils and raws before giving members access. Hardware is great also. It is upgraded. He’s new to Meso but not the business

D not new brother.

Thanks for the info! I’ll give it a shot

 

[Scooby69]

To be fair I'm not sure exactly how to determine what you are trying to measure. If you want to get a realistic idea, you first need a baseline and from there pin 100mgs suspension (TNE same thing, I think) for a week straight and then pull labs and see if E2 has spiked.

I'm still not totally sold on what this tells us, variables genetics etc. but I can tell you test suspension should aromatize (mg for mg) more than esterfied test.

One more variable, is TNE the same as suspension? I don't recall hearing about it until recently. Test suspension is testosterone crystals in aqueus suspension. You have to shake it up before you pin it. Test without ester. Is TNE the same? I assume so?

On topic, propionate is considered to aromatize less than cyp or en and I don't think anyone gave a good reason why. I assumed it was simply lower total mg being absorbed combined with low body fat (prop usually used during prep) but again I really can't say to a certainty. Makes for interesting discussion.

TNE is in solution in oil, while test suspension is crystals in water.

I am sure TNE is aromatized to some extent, but I would also guess it is aromatized less than an equal amount of a test ester like cyp or enan. Enzymes are saturable, in that it can only metabolize so much product so quickly. So, the sharp peak of the TNE likely saturates the aromatase enzymes. Estradiol is still made, but not to the same extent as the same amount of test slowly exposed to those same enzymes over a 3-5 day period. This may be the same reason why test prop is believed to be aromatized less than a longer ester. The peak of test is higher with prop, but the aromatase enzymes can only work so fast. And then with prop, there is a trough in test levels, which creates a lull in aromatization.

That is theoretical though. Looking forward to seeing results of the real world experiment!

 

[Photon]

To be fair I'm not sure exactly how to determine what you are trying to measure. If you want to get a realistic idea, you first need a baseline and from there pin 100mgs suspension (TNE same thing, I think) for a week straight and then pull labs and see if E2 has spiked.

I'm still not totally sold on what this tells us, variables genetics etc. but I can tell you test suspension should aromatize (mg for mg) more than esterfied test.

One more variable, is TNE the same as suspension? I don't recall hearing about it until recently. Test suspension is testosterone crystals in aqueus suspension. You have to shake it up before you pin it. Test without ester. Is TNE the same? I assume so?

On topic, propionate is considered to aromatize less than cyp or en and I don't think anyone gave a good reason why. I assumed it was simply lower total mg being absorbed combined with low body fat (prop usually used during prep) but again I really can't say to a certainty. Makes for interesting discussion.

I was planning to pin and then pull e2 in a few hours. Given how rapidly TNE spikes then clears, i'd expect to see a shift in e2. It wouldn't make sense for e2 to start rising after TNE is almost gone from the body.

Testosterone base can be brewed in oil or in an aqueous suspension. Since it doesn't actually dissolve, the API simply suspends in the solution. However the compound is the same, one's just dissolved in oil (commonly referred as TNE) and the other suspended as crystals in water.

 

[readalot]

suspends in the solution

...in the suspension.

vs

...dissolves in the solution.

Dissolution vs suspension.

 

[oldage]

Bro I've been at this decades and it's very well known test suspension heavily aromatizes. Off hand I recall the last anabolic review that was published (years ago) and the profile for suspension stated gyno was a foregone conclusion.
Now, in modern times it's use as a pre workout is novel in my opinion. I had only heard of it being used just before contest time a few days out to enhance glycogen uptake. Which is does better than anything except insulin. Keep in mind conversion to estrogen is highly fat dependent as aromatase is primarily concentrated in adipose tissue. So, if already pretty lean suspension won't convert as much as it would if you were fat. This is all dependant on genetics as well. But ideally you'd only use it pre contest and on a host of other compounds including strong AI support.

You can use suspension as a stronger version of propionate if needed. It will form a depot at site and elevates test levels for around 3 days though it's really not ideal used like this.

I greatly appreciate this info and discussion! I think these discussions help the community and myself. So, thank u for your response. This is why I am here on Meso.

Are you familiar with some of the discussions about the effects of Test Suspension ( in water) raising E2 because, as u stated, creates a depot were TNE (in oil) does not and is in and out of your system much quicker. Im wondering if this the reason for anecdotal differences. Thanks agian.

Probably should of read everyone's responses. Thanks agian

 

[Defiant Pharma]

I definitely think with how quick TNE is in and out of your system mitigates some of the symptoms that come with aromatization usually. I consider myself fairly gyno prone and I've never seen any noticeable side effects from taking TNE multiple times per week (on top of my normal Test C dosage), 4-5 times depending on my workout schedule.

This is all anecdotal of course as I've never done BW to prove this specific subject.

 

[Defiant Pharma]

Thanks for the update. Any rough idea how much Bold Cyp is left? I might just grab whatever remains, purely to help with inventory management… and maybe make sure @DeodatoFulci doesn’t get his hands on it.

Dont buy all of it please. Planning to get 15 more vials

Just got a count and have only 21 left in stock in MCT, and 8 left in GSO.

@The Answ3r @blediot

 

[Dial It In]

I greatly appreciate this info and discussion! I think these discussions help the community and myself. So, thank u for your response. This is why I am here on Meso.

Are you familiar with some of the discussions about the effects of Test Suspension ( in water) raising E2 because, as u stated, creates a depot were TNE (in oil) does not and is in and out of your system much quicker. Im wondering if this the reason for anecdotal differences. Thanks agian.

Probably should of read everyone's responses. Thanks agian

Only note I’ll add on water suspensions that are injectable is my understanding they are more susceptible to bacteria over time. Just something to keep in mind and maybe I’m wrong and I’ll own it if I am

 

[DeodatoFulci]

Just got a count and have only 21 left in stock in MCT, and 8 left in GSO.

@The Answ3r @blediot

Move on this fast fellas! Was going to wait to place my order next week but this inventory count gave me severe FOMO.

 

[Infernalmango]

Only note I’ll add on water suspensions that are injectable is my understanding they are more susceptible to bacteria over time. Just something to keep in mind and maybe I’m wrong and I’ll own it if I am

Iv heard this mentioned as well, but only ever in regards to injectable pwos. Why is it never talked about with l carn or gluta?

 

[TanFishMan]

Iv heard this mentioned as well, but only ever in regards to injectable pwos. Why is it never talked about with l carn or gluta?

My guess is lcarn and gluta dissolve in water. it’s suspended solids like water winstrol that cause irritation leading to sterile abscesses from injecting literal chunks of compound