Cycle Recommendation / Hematocrit

[Nick_Vaz]

Hello everyone
I am in search of knowledge from more experienced people than I. Currently 25 and on TRT, been doing a ton of research on doing a safe successful cycle. I’ll be honest I’ve gotten ahead of myself and I have a ton of Test Cyp / NPP / Primo and a few other orals. In addition to a ton of ancillaries and supps. But going to pump the brakes for a minute as much as I want to try all of this shit. Is the general consensus still on the good old 400-500mg test for 16 weeks? Would be very interested in what your guys thoughts might be. Also would love to know the cycles some guys have ran what’s been the worst for your RBC / HCT count. I’ve been rather obsessed in the pursuit of controlling hematocrit as I despise giving blood ( seems there’s mixed thoughts on tha anyway). But any advice you guys have is much appreciated.

 

[SonhoDourado]

EQ will raise H&H more than any other compound. Cycle advice is to use one compound and increase the dosage incrementally until desired results occur. Eat clean and make sure to include plenty of cardio training. High H&H isn’t inherently dangerous so long as you’re not dehydrated or have elevated platelets. There will be increased blood volume from the AAS. Keeping an eye on water retention and blood pressure is key. Uncontrolled hypertension will affect the kidneys, heart, and put you at risk for a cardiovascular event. That coupled with high H&H can present a problem IMHO.

To keep H&H in check you can do smaller daily injections and eat a grapefruit every single day. You can also juice 1-2 a day. There is a good study on pub med about grapefruit lowering hematocrit. In the study those with the highest numbers at the start experienced the biggest drops in H&H.

25 is young to be on TRT, were you hypogonadal or just not seeing results from training/symptomatic? Either way you hopefully have a long life ahead so take every precaution to ensure your health comes before the appearance in the mirror. While you can burn the candle at both ends seemingly forever in your 20s you don’t wanna be dealing with the fallout in your 40s-end.

 

[RockyP]

Run test alone for as long as you can before adding another compound. Run it as high as you can without needing an AI, then add an AI. While it's become fashionable to add compounds like EQ or Primo to Test cycles to control E2 and get extra anabolism, it's really silly / waste if you're only running 300 of test. You're better pushing that test to 500+ on it's own even if you need an AI. IMO, not worth it to add something like EQ / Primo until that test level gets to 600+. Then, you can add 300 of primo or EQ to at least get something from those compounds. Running 150 of primo / EQ is a waste (I've done it so I know), and you're better off just running a low dose AI if needed with higher test.

H/H is highly individual and genetically determined. You may find certain compounds impact your H/H more than others. You need to do cardio for your general health but this will also help control H/H (as much as you can control it within your genetic make-up).

All PED users should be evaluated for sleep apnea irregardless of body habitus, age, etc. If you have sleep apnea, it will make HCT levels higher than normal and adding PED's to that is going to just jack it up even higher. Also, OSA is a terrible disease and will make you feel like shit, hinder your progress in the gym, etc.

Lastly, don't run PED's beyond simple TRT if your bodyfat is over 15%. You will just invite side effects like increased BP, estrogen, higher H/H, etc. Best to get in shape first, then add PED's as needed. You'll tolerate them better and they will work much better the more fit / lean you are.

 

[SonhoDourado]

Run test alone for as long as you can before adding another compound. Run it as high as you can without needing an AI, then add an AI. While it's become fashionable to add compounds like EQ or Primo to Test cycles to control E2 and get extra anabolism, it's really silly / waste if you're only running 300 of test. You're better pushing that test to 500+ on it's own even if you need an AI. IMO, not worth it to add something like EQ / Primo until that test level gets to 600+. Then, you can add 300 of primo or EQ to at least get something from those compounds. Running 150 of primo / EQ is a waste (I've done it so I know), and you're better off just running a low dose AI if needed with higher test.

H/H is highly individual and genetically determined. You may find certain compounds impact your H/H more than others. You need to do cardio for your general health but this will also help control H/H (as much as you can control it within your genetic make-up).

All PED users should be evaluated for sleep apnea irregardless of body habitus, age, etc. If you have sleep apnea, it will make HCT levels higher than normal and adding PED's to that is going to just jack it up even higher. Also, OSA is a terrible disease and will make you feel like shit, hinder your progress in the gym, etc.

Lastly, don't run PED's beyond simple TRT if your bodyfat is over 15%. You will just invite side effects like increased BP, estrogen, higher H/H, etc. Best to get in shape first, then add PED's as needed. You'll tolerate them better and they will work much better the more fit / lean you are.

Well said sir. Solid advice. I concur with everything stated, especially the body fat and sleep apnea points. Super low hanging fruit that MANY folks either simply ignore or just try to add more drugs to combat. I was only at 15.5 AHI when I tested for sleep apnea. So I figured I’d remedy it my way. Lost 20lbs, stopped drinking for 6 months, and lo and behold my sleep apnea actually got Worse! Went to 18.6 AHI. Been using a clap religiously since August of this year. Absolutely a game changer!

 

[Nick_Vaz]

EQ will raise H&H more than any other compound. Cycle advice is to use one compound and increase the dosage incrementally until desired results occur. Eat clean and make sure to include plenty of cardio training. High H&H isn’t inherently dangerous so long as you’re not dehydrated or have elevated platelets. There will be increased blood volume from the AAS. Keeping an eye on water retention and blood pressure is key. Uncontrolled hypertension will affect the kidneys, heart, and put you at risk for a cardiovascular event. That coupled with high H&H can present a problem IMHO.

To keep H&H in check you can do smaller daily injections and eat a grapefruit every single day. You can also juice 1-2 a day. There is a good study on pub med about grapefruit lowering hematocrit. In the study those with the highest numbers at the start experienced the biggest drops in H&H.

25 is young to be on TRT, were you hypogonadal or just not seeing results from training/symptomatic? Either way you hopefully have a long life ahead so take every precaution to ensure your health comes before the appearance in the mirror. While you can burn the candle at both ends seemingly forever in your 20s you don’t wanna be dealing with the fallout in your 40s-end.

Unfortunately yes I am aware it is to young saw that comment coming from miles lol, but I have been dealing with sub 300ng/dl levels since I was 19. years so at 24 after trying all the other bs my clinic tried to put me on finally got on test and lone behold its exactly what I was missing all along. Yes I have considered adding grapefruit to my diet I would just have to make sure there's no interactions with the supps I am taking in a negative way. I know Cialis is one you don't want to mix. But I appreciate your comment and your good wishes.

 

[Nick_Vaz]

Run test alone for as long as you can before adding another compound. Run it as high as you can without needing an AI, then add an AI. While it's become fashionable to add compounds like EQ or Primo to Test cycles to control E2 and get extra anabolism, it's really silly / waste if you're only running 300 of test. You're better pushing that test to 500+ on it's own even if you need an AI. IMO, not worth it to add something like EQ / Primo until that test level gets to 600+. Then, you can add 300 of primo or EQ to at least get something from those compounds. Running 150 of primo / EQ is a waste (I've done it so I know), and you're better off just running a low dose AI if needed with higher test.

H/H is highly individual and genetically determined. You may find certain compounds impact your H/H more than others. You need to do cardio for your general health but this will also help control H/H (as much as you can control it within your genetic make-up).

All PED users should be evaluated for sleep apnea irregardless of body habitus, age, etc. If you have sleep apnea, it will make HCT levels higher than normal and adding PED's to that is going to just jack it up even higher. Also, OSA is a terrible disease and will make you feel like shit, hinder your progress in the gym, etc.

Lastly, don't run PED's beyond simple TRT if your bodyfat is over 15%. You will just invite side effects like increased BP, estrogen, higher H/H, etc. Best to get in shape first, then add PED's as needed. You'll tolerate them better and they will work much better the more fit / lean you are.

thank you for the comment bro, ive actually read a bunch of your advice from other threads your name pops up a lot. So thank you for your comment as well as the other knowledge that you drop. Its much appreciated. sounds like 400 cyp is the way for me. would you say 16 weeks? or planed base upon mid cycle bloods? I focus on HCT a ton because I hate giving blood. But I genuinely don't I am one of those people that shoots to the moon at least not on TRT. 120mg / 1000iu hcg administered biweekly has me right at 48.8 which is less than I was natural. Since that test I've switched to daily micro injections, 1-1.5 gal of water per day, and stopped smoking joints as I've heard it is none to good for your bloods ability to transport oxygen. and now I do about an hour of steady state cardio per day. In addition to losing roughly 40-50lbs at the time of my next blood work I am hoping to see at the very least a marginal improvement before I go about upping my dosages.

 

[RockyP]

I think 400 is fine. Just remember. Unless you are very very advanced (like holding 50+ lbs of lean tissue beyond your genetic limit), you need a lot less gear to grow than you think. The higher dosages are for contest prep to drive gym performance and hold onto that tissue. I use less than half of the dosage when trying to grow vs when cutting hard. When you have your diet and rest dialed in you will see just how powerful food is and how little PEDs are needed to grow (again , until you are very advanced).

 

[BigDadd7]

500 mg test is a GREAT first cycle. Even more so if you already on trt. You will put on some great weight. Get your e2 before you start and again 4 weeks in. Don't miss your protein goals, get plenty of sleep, and be sure to limit alcohol (if you drink).

 

[ETliens]

500 mg test is a GREAT first cycle. Even more so if you already on trt. You will put on some great weight. Get your e2 before you start and again 4 weeks in. Don't miss your protein goals, get plenty of sleep, and be sure to limit alcohol (if you drink).

While I’m not on my first cycle, I’m very new to this world and haven’t run close to 500 test yet. My next cycle will likely be 500 plus another product. What is your take on jumping straight from a TRT dose (180mg) to 500? Is it better to titrate up? Say each week: 300>400>500?

Thanks!

 

[BigDadd7]

While I’m not on my first cycle, I’m very new to this world and haven’t run close to 500 test yet. My next cycle will likely be 500 plus another product. What is your take on jumping straight from a TRT dose (180mg) to 500? Is it better to titrate up? Say each week: 300>400>500?

Thanks!

Jump straight in. Titrating is a waste of time.

 

[Manualtrt]

I hate donating blood but I do it. A few months ago I was at 52% H/h and rising on a TRT+ dose of 180mg plus a primo micro dose. I dropped down to 100mg… 8 weeks later at 48%! I did have a grapefruit for perhaps 2/8 weeks too, with some liss cardio

 

[Nick_Vaz]

I hate donating blood but I do it. A few months ago I was at 52% H/h and rising on a TRT+ dose of 180mg plus a primo micro dose. I dropped down to 100mg… 8 weeks later at 48%! I did have a grapefruit for perhaps 2/8 weeks too, with some liss cardio

did you do a phlebotomy as well as making those changes?

 

[nathenking]

Hello everyone
I am in search of knowledge from more experienced people than I. Currently 25 and on TRT, been doing a ton of research on doing a safe successful cycle. I’ll be honest I’ve gotten ahead of myself and I have a ton of Test Cyp / NPP / Primo and a few other orals. In addition to a ton of ancillaries and supps. But going to pump the brakes for a minute as much as I want to try all of this shit. Is the general consensus still on the good old 400-500mg test for 16 weeks? Would be very interested in what your guys thoughts might be. Also would love to know the cycles some guys have ran what’s been the worst for your RBC / HCT count. I’ve been rather obsessed in the pursuit of controlling hematocrit as I despise giving blood ( seems there’s mixed thoughts on tha anyway). But any advice you guys have is much appreciated.

I would double my TRT dose and run it for 12-16 weeks. You'll get good gains from that. Now that I'm in my forties I wish I would have used lower amounts and squeezed out as much gains from the lower doses. At 25 you could run a cycle of 400mg of test. Followed by a 400mg of test 200mg of primo cycle. Then a 500 mg of test with a 250mg cycle of primo. It will be slower but more solid IMO. Run those three cycles your first year and you should easily be able to put on 15-20 pounds of good mass if your diet is in check. Save the larger doses for when gaining gets harder. 2cents

 

[nathenking]

While I’m not on my first cycle, I’m very new to this world and haven’t run close to 500 test yet. My next cycle will likely be 500 plus another product. What is your take on jumping straight from a TRT dose (180mg) to 500? Is it better to titrate up? Say each week: 300>400>500?

Thanks!

Just run 400 for 12-16 weeks and see how you react. Slow and Steady wins this race!

 

[ETliens]

Just run 400 for 12-16 weeks and see how you react. Slow and Steady wins this race!

Last run was 360 test /200 deca and I did well. No AI needed.

 

[Nick_Vaz]

Last run was 360 test /200 deca and I did well. No AI needed.

How did your bloods look during and post?

 

[Nick_Vaz]

I would double my TRT dose and run it for 12-16 weeks. You'll get good gains from that. Now that I'm in my forties I wish I would have used lower amounts and squeezed out as much gains from the lower doses. At 25 you could run a cycle of 400mg of test. Followed by a 400mg of test 200mg of primo cycle. Then a 500 mg of test with a 250mg cycle of primo. It will be slower but more solid IMO. Run those three cycles your first year and you should easily be able to put on 15-20 pounds of good mass if your diet is in check. Save the larger doses for when gaining gets harder. 2cents

Do you think NPP or any of the popular orals have their place 2-3 cycles down the road?

 

[ETliens]

How did your bloods look during and post?

HGB/HCT just under the high range but it runs high (I also live at elevation). The testo had a nominal effect on everything but estradiol. That was low 50s. Felt fine. I stopped taking HCG which had my estradiol in the mid 60s…but still felt okay.

 

[Nick_Vaz]

HGB/HCT just under the high range but it runs high (I also live at elevation). The testo had a nominal effect on everything but estradiol. That was low 50s. Felt fine. I stopped taking HCG which had my estradiol in the mid 60s…but still felt okay.

That's great anything under 53 id say is probably pretty good , I think that's the end of the reference range for my clinic. I can imagine test/deca/hcg sounds super e2 heavy

 

[Manualtrt]

did you do a phlebotomy as well as making those changes?

No. I’m one of the main reasons for the extra blood test was to check hct levels. To be honest I was surprised it had fallen. I was expecting to need to try and arrange phlebotomy.

Full disclosure the 2 tests were done in different labs.

I think a combination of reducing test dose significantly and adding a grapefruit per day (plus the use ancillaries like bo meds, statin, fish oils etc) moved my haematocrit by c.3pp