Is Meso Losing Its Edge?

[BigDadd7]

...A message forum is a fairly archaic platform at this point, and there's no reason to go to the trouble if I can just get the same experience on TikTok or Instagram.

I agree with you that these are growing pains, but I also think the forum is at a crossroads. It is probably tempting to want to grow the user base by allowing the maxxers in, but it will fundamentally change the forum for the worse in the long term.

99% of tiktok and social media is garbage- pretty boys and/or charismatic loudmouths saying whatever they want without fact check. At least here people can voice their disagreement.

 

[BALLISTIC]

You guys serious?

So I'll answer since none of you did..Depends. At the 2 week mark I'll prefer to go BAC. But use straight WFI for generally if vial is used up within a week.

That was his question.

Take a loss and admit most of you are grumpy fucks most of the time.

No loss here when intelligence prevails.

You obviously never took a science class and manipulated culture growth. It's on everything and believing 6 days is okay, is without any other confusing definitions for you "STUPID".

The only instance I would use distilled water or the like would be a 10iu HGH vial where I'm splitting 5iu am/pm. But come to think of it, I wouldn't do this either as that constitutes multi-dose, giving unnecessary exposure.

SWFI is for single use.
if you pin a 10-15IU vial, SWFI is the way to go.
if you split it in 2 pins 24h apart, you can use saline, but you are cutting it close.
Any more than that, you should use BAC.
Anything else is endangering your health for no real gain. BAC, saline and SWFI cost almost the exact same.
You have to either be the greediest little man or willfully ignorant to not use BAC on multi-use vials.

Careful man, your logic is spot on and explained. His ability to listen and adhere is lacking.

When emotion outruns regulation, listening becomes impossible, not because intelligence is lacking, but because the nervous system has chosen defense over dialogue. It's an instinctual failure and one that leans towards maladaptive traits, furthering ones inability to evolve.

 

[Duraclear]

99% of tiktok and social media is garbage- pretty boys and/or charismatic loudmouths saying whatever they want without fact check. At least here people can voice their disagreement.

I completely agree. My point is that if nothing is done to stop the current trend, there will eventually be no substantive difference between this forum and social media. The dummies will take over. In such case, there would be no point in participating in this forum. I would hate to see that happen.

 

[Cman90]

Alright, moderators are doing their job. If he believes that what I wrote somehow hurt the feelings of new forum members or violated the current standards, then those are the rules and I’m obviously not the one who gets to rewrite them.

For transparency, here’s the exact post that earned me a timeout in Steroid Underground until April. Anyone can read it and decide for themselves whether it was actual harassment… or just forum banter that landed a little too hard.

Post in thread 'Qingdao Sigma Chemical Co., Ltd (International, US, EU, Canada and Australia domestic'
Qingdao Sigma Chemical Co., Ltd (International, US, EU, Canada and Australia domestic

That is what got you banned?! That shit cracked me up.

I think your post is a great example of a lighthearted joke between grown adult men. Not only was it a hilarious light hearted joke, you also answered the persons question and provided useful information. Thats a 3 in 1 post.

When moderation has reached a point where jokes as soft as that are getting valuable vets banned, it's clearly gone too far.

The changes to this forum, especially moderation, have pushed away some of the most knowledgeable members who are responsible for the largest contributions to harm reduction. These members have constantly grilled vendors to raise standards, greatly increasing harm reduction.

And now many of them are gone.

@MESO-Rx Administrator , I really hope you listen to the community and make some changes to the moderation policies you are enforcing, before it's too late.

I think we can all agree on banning kids, trolls, and cleaning up spam on threads, but banning knowledgeable vets for cracking jokes while answering questions is doing more harm than good.

 

[PrairieSteel]

This seems like an excessive response, and not any different than comments I see from others every single day.

I’d much rather see anyone whose first post is trying to source, get slapped with a 6-8 wk read only ban.

The read only ban is a great idea, I think you're on the right path here. The mods could create a sticky, actions xyz will result in an instant ban.

 

[MindlessWork]

Also I don't get it why some people with thin skin go reporting posts as hateful/trolling/whatnot when they really aren't.

 

[heavydutygorilla]

Also I don't get it why some people with thin skin go reporting posts as hateful/trolling/whatnot when they really aren't.

Generation that grew up with report buttons and safe spaces vs the generation that couldn't report shit and no space was safe, not even home!

 

[MindlessWork]

Generation that grew up with report buttons and safe spaces vs the generation that couldn't report shit and no space was safe, not even home!

Oh yes basically the Zyzz crowd that came flooding in some time back, and now those who came over from bb.com Misc after that forum closed down 2 years ago.

 

[bossetti]

What if..MESO isn't losing it's edge.

But...







You are?

i never lose at edging........

 

[bossetti]

Every time I log on I click “new posts” and usually peruse the first page. And I still have no problem bashing the nerds that deserve it. I wish more of y’all would so we could get back to the glory days of intimidating noobs lol

i remember my first post was like, give me a source for epo bc i want to be the next lance,or something like that,i was insulted in a few seconds(and they were completely right) and then the post went down,
i mean, its a forum about peds not about dolls or plants, i dont even expect to get trated softly here, then banning for direct and personal insults its not bad but now its a bit too much,and im not talking about my ban (was somewhat fair compared to many others,even tho i never directly insulted no one and i posted many things i found on instagram,a place where theorically i would expect more censorship on that type of topics)

 

[BendigoShafter]

Me whenever I read something I have a useful reply to:

 

[BALLISTIC]

@The Answ3r @nullandvoid @IndividualMan @BendigoShafter @Country Club Hero @RockyP @bob357sig @hard_gains @craigdt @Ateam2023 @AlexDavis43 @Billbo98 @dinfar1337 @MindlessWork @hellerhiwater @bananafeet @Mfras @urmumsurdad30 @Elektrobot @Scooby69
@Psy-chonaut @BigDadd7 @Cman90 @heavydutygorilla @bossetti

@everyone else I failed to mention.


I’ll start by saying I’m genuinely glad to be surrounded by so many like-minded individuals here. Intellectual humility is a prerequisite for discourse, and I’ve been fortunate to interact with members who understand that. I’ve learned something from each of you, respectfully, and we’ve never had to devolve into banter or ego driven back and forth to get there. That says a lot about the caliber of this community when it’s operating at its best. The mods need to focus on returning to Meso's roots.

That said, there’s an observable dynamic that deserves acknowledgment. You can’t reason someone out of a position they didn’t reason themselves into. Confidence without competence is a loud combination, and debating someone who mistakes opinion for fact quickly becomes a study in futility. The Dunning–Kruger effect remains undefeated in open forums. As a mass we should just downvote them from now on...and move on, I think as a mass our silence is impactful.

If harm reduction is truly the goal, then accuracy should not be punished. Being reprimanded for factual correction is an interesting policy choice. Moderation should never drift into protecting misinformation simply because it’s delivered loudly or confidently in ignorance. Or financially.

Good members, the ones who contribute data, experience, and correction, should not be penalized for their accuracy. And when met with blatant arrogance or repeated factual error, sometimes a direct reminder of one’s position in the hierarchy of understanding is necessary. It may come off brash. It may not be sugarcoated. But correction is not hostility, it’s stewardship of the standard. Potentially a standard that once was. Hmmm

Now, thank you gentlemen, and anyone else I’ve gained but failed to tag simply because I overlooked it, not because you were left out intentionally. You know exactly who you are, and this applies to you equally.

The tags in this reply represent some of the brightest, and frankly most hilarious, minds I’ve come across in cyberspace. You all deserve strong recognition. The balance of intelligence, humility, humor, and perspective you bring is rare, and it elevates the entire space. From me to you→ THANKS.

At the end of the day, the intent isn’t ego. It’s clarity. And clarity benefits everyone who comes here looking to learn. Sometimes clarity needs to cut like a knife. Sensitivity and pretending an individuals feelings matter is laughable. Especially on the Internet.

Appreciate the solid members who keep it that way.

 

[Billbo98]

@The Answ3r @nullandvoid @IndividualMan @BendigoShafter @Country Club Hero @RockyP @bob357sig @hard_gains @craigdt @Ateam2023 @AlexDavis43 @Billbo98 @dinfar1337 @MindlessWork @hellerhiwater @bananafeet @Mfras @urmumsurdad30 @Elektrobot @Scooby69
@Psy-chonaut @BigDadd7 @Cman90 @heavydutygorilla @bossetti

@everyone else I failed to mention.


I’ll start by saying I’m genuinely glad to be surrounded by so many like-minded individuals here. Intellectual humility is a prerequisite for discourse, and I’ve been fortunate to interact with members who understand that. I’ve learned something from each of you, respectfully, and we’ve never had to devolve into banter or ego driven back and forth to get there. That says a lot about the caliber of this community when it’s operating at its best. The mods need to focus on returning to Meso's roots.

That said, there’s an observable dynamic that deserves acknowledgment. You can’t reason someone out of a position they didn’t reason themselves into. Confidence without competence is a loud combination, and debating someone who mistakes opinion for fact quickly becomes a study in futility. The Dunning–Kruger effect remains undefeated in open forums. As a mass we should just downvote them from now on...and move on, I think as a mass our silence is impactful.

If harm reduction is truly the goal, then accuracy should not be punished. Being reprimanded for factual correction is an interesting policy choice. Moderation should never drift into protecting misinformation simply because it’s delivered loudly or confidently in ignorance. Or financially.

Good members, the ones who contribute data, experience, and correction, should not be penalized for their accuracy. And when met with blatant arrogance or repeated factual error, sometimes a direct reminder of one’s position in the hierarchy of understanding is necessary. It may come off brash. It may not be sugarcoated. But correction is not hostility, it’s stewardship of the standard. Potentially a standard that once was. Hmmm

Now, thank you gentlemen, and anyone else I’ve gained but failed to tag simply because I overlooked it, not because you were left out intentionally. You know exactly who you are, and this applies to you equally.

The tags in this reply represent some of the brightest, and frankly most hilarious, minds I’ve come across in cyberspace. You all deserve strong recognition. The balance of intelligence, humility, humor, and perspective you bring is rare, and it elevates the entire space. From me to you→ THANKS.

At the end of the day, the intent isn’t ego. It’s clarity. And clarity benefits everyone who comes here looking to learn. Sometimes clarity needs to cut like a knife. Sensitivity and pretending an individuals feelings matter is laughable. Especially on the Internet.

Appreciate the solid members who keep it that way.

Damn man only thing I worthwhile to say to something beautiful like this is that scene in training day when Denzel looks at Ethan Hawk and says

 

[Dial It In]

@The Answ3r @nullandvoid @IndividualMan @BendigoShafter @Country Club Hero @RockyP @bob357sig @hard_gains @craigdt @Ateam2023 @AlexDavis43 @Billbo98 @dinfar1337 @MindlessWork @hellerhiwater @bananafeet @Mfras @urmumsurdad30 @Elektrobot @Scooby69
@Psy-chonaut @BigDadd7 @Cman90 @heavydutygorilla @bossetti

@everyone else I failed to mention.


I’ll start by saying I’m genuinely glad to be surrounded by so many like-minded individuals here. Intellectual humility is a prerequisite for discourse, and I’ve been fortunate to interact with members who understand that. I’ve learned something from each of you, respectfully, and we’ve never had to devolve into banter or ego driven back and forth to get there. That says a lot about the caliber of this community when it’s operating at its best. The mods need to focus on returning to Meso's roots.

That said, there’s an observable dynamic that deserves acknowledgment. You can’t reason someone out of a position they didn’t reason themselves into. Confidence without competence is a loud combination, and debating someone who mistakes opinion for fact quickly becomes a study in futility. The Dunning–Kruger effect remains undefeated in open forums. As a mass we should just downvote them from now on...and move on, I think as a mass our silence is impactful.

If harm reduction is truly the goal, then accuracy should not be punished. Being reprimanded for factual correction is an interesting policy choice. Moderation should never drift into protecting misinformation simply because it’s delivered loudly or confidently in ignorance. Or financially.

Good members, the ones who contribute data, experience, and correction, should not be penalized for their accuracy. And when met with blatant arrogance or repeated factual error, sometimes a direct reminder of one’s position in the hierarchy of understanding is necessary. It may come off brash. It may not be sugarcoated. But correction is not hostility, it’s stewardship of the standard. Potentially a standard that once was. Hmmm

Now, thank you gentlemen, and anyone else I’ve gained but failed to tag simply because I overlooked it, not because you were left out intentionally. You know exactly who you are, and this applies to you equally.

The tags in this reply represent some of the brightest, and frankly most hilarious, minds I’ve come across in cyberspace. You all deserve strong recognition. The balance of intelligence, humility, humor, and perspective you bring is rare, and it elevates the entire space. From me to you→ THANKS.

At the end of the day, the intent isn’t ego. It’s clarity. And clarity benefits everyone who comes here looking to learn. Sometimes clarity needs to cut like a knife. Sensitivity and pretending an individuals feelings matter is laughable. Especially on the Internet.

Appreciate the solid members who keep it that way.

When is Opti going to open

 

[hellerhiwater]

@The Answ3r @nullandvoid @IndividualMan @BendigoShafter @Country Club Hero @RockyP @bob357sig @hard_gains @craigdt @Ateam2023 @AlexDavis43 @Billbo98 @dinfar1337 @MindlessWork @hellerhiwater @bananafeet @Mfras @urmumsurdad30 @Elektrobot @Scooby69
@Psy-chonaut @BigDadd7 @Cman90 @heavydutygorilla @bossetti

@everyone else I failed to mention.


I’ll start by saying I’m genuinely glad to be surrounded by so many like-minded individuals here. Intellectual humility is a prerequisite for discourse, and I’ve been fortunate to interact with members who understand that. I’ve learned something from each of you, respectfully, and we’ve never had to devolve into banter or ego driven back and forth to get there. That says a lot about the caliber of this community when it’s operating at its best. The mods need to focus on returning to Meso's roots.

That said, there’s an observable dynamic that deserves acknowledgment. You can’t reason someone out of a position they didn’t reason themselves into. Confidence without competence is a loud combination, and debating someone who mistakes opinion for fact quickly becomes a study in futility. The Dunning–Kruger effect remains undefeated in open forums. As a mass we should just downvote them from now on...and move on, I think as a mass our silence is impactful.

If harm reduction is truly the goal, then accuracy should not be punished. Being reprimanded for factual correction is an interesting policy choice. Moderation should never drift into protecting misinformation simply because it’s delivered loudly or confidently in ignorance. Or financially.

Good members, the ones who contribute data, experience, and correction, should not be penalized for their accuracy. And when met with blatant arrogance or repeated factual error, sometimes a direct reminder of one’s position in the hierarchy of understanding is necessary. It may come off brash. It may not be sugarcoated. But correction is not hostility, it’s stewardship of the standard. Potentially a standard that once was. Hmmm

Now, thank you gentlemen, and anyone else I’ve gained but failed to tag simply because I overlooked it, not because you were left out intentionally. You know exactly who you are, and this applies to you equally.

The tags in this reply represent some of the brightest, and frankly most hilarious, minds I’ve come across in cyberspace. You all deserve strong recognition. The balance of intelligence, humility, humor, and perspective you bring is rare, and it elevates the entire space. From me to you→ THANKS.

At the end of the day, the intent isn’t ego. It’s clarity. And clarity benefits everyone who comes here looking to learn. Sometimes clarity needs to cut like a knife. Sensitivity and pretending an individuals feelings matter is laughable. Especially on the Internet.

Appreciate the solid members who keep it that way.

i sincerely hope the world is benefiting from your mind and ability to communicate its contents past the limits of this forum.

This genuinely reads like a quote from some literary legend like mark twain;

"You can’t reason someone out of a position they didn’t reason themselves into. Confidence without competence is a loud combination, and debating someone who mistakes opinion for fact quickly becomes a study in futility."

i have no real ideas or input on how to share your gift with the world, just a sincere hope that you can or will one day. thanks for being here and doing all you've done to help and educate me and others thus far. im always pumped to read your paragraphs.

 

[BALLISTIC]

When is Opti going to open

Never man, I wish those impatient rude clowns...NO GAINS.

 

[BALLISTIC]

i sincerely hope the world is benefiting from your mind and ability to communicate its contents past the limits of this forum.

This genuinely reads like a quote from some literary legend like mark twain;

"You can’t reason someone out of a position they didn’t reason themselves into. Confidence without competence is a loud combination, and debating someone who mistakes opinion for fact quickly becomes a study in futility."

i have no real ideas or input on how to share your gift with the world, just a sincere hope that you can or will one day. thanks for being here and doing all you've done to help and educate me and others thus far. im always pumped to read your paragraphs.

I don’t know if this has anything to do with it… ↓↓↓

But I’m sure we’ve all had those days where no music fits. Not for the gym. Not for the drive. Not for whatever headspace you’re in. You scroll, skip, scroll again, nothing hits. (Bangs on steering wheel) Haha

A few years back I switched it up and started running Audible instead. I’m probably that weird 42yoa dude in the gym, hoodie up, locked in, not blasting music, but listening to The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire by Edward Gibbon, or The Complete Strategy Collection by Sun Tzu.

I’ve gone through The 88 Laws of the Masculine Mindset by John Winters, Violence of Mind by Varg Freeborn, and some of my favorites from Jack Donovan→The Way of Men, Becoming a Barbarian, and A More Complete Beast.

When I was a kid, I’d fall asleep reading. Books were how I shut my brain off. Somewhere along the way adulthood replaced that with music, distraction, scrolling. Audible kind of brought me back to that place. Same curiosity. Just at my pace now. I can absorb it while I train, drive, or just think.

What’s interesting is that a lot of the traits discussed in those books (discipline, brotherhood, competence, sovereignty, strategic thinking) are things I’ve seen displayed here in one way or another by you gentleman. That gives me hope that real men still exist. Hope that strength isn’t just aesthetic. Hope that intellectual stimulation matters. But don't take things so seriously you forget to laugh out loud.

Maybe it’s just me getting older. Or maybe it’s recognizing that iron sharpens iron as they say... even if sometimes that iron is coming through a pair of headphones.

Something any it for me has stimulated my mind. I've also really decided into nootropic meds quite a bit. Completely anecdotal but they're working. I just feel like I psychoanalyze to a fault at times.

 

[Mfras]

@BALLISTIC

Honestly flattered to be included in your list man! I always enjoy your posts.

On the subject of harm reduction and not lowering oneself to the level of confident idiots- yes ignoring them is a valid tactic. Don’t feed the trolls.

At the same time there is great value in first calmly and humbly refuting dangerous claims, then clowning the shit out of them. A little bit of hazing is part of how oldschool brotherhood is formed- that’s part of it. Fistfight, do shots, new best friends. Or even milder, prove you have a little mettle- you’ll need it to withstand the mental effects some gear will put you through at times. Weed out those who are a danger to themselves and who’s self harm damages the community.

But I’m old and maybe these are old ways. Possibly more important than anything is that for every stupid looksmaxxer that wants to run dangerous cycles with bad information there could be ten impressionable lurkers reading along that don’t know any better. A confident dangerous idiot gently corrected then given the beans by the OGs is a clear signal to anyone reading that maybe cooking your body with fertilizer actually CANT get you from 22% down to 11% in twelve days for example.

 

[BALLISTIC]

@BALLISTIC

Honestly flattered to be included in your list man! I always enjoy your posts.

On the subject of harm reduction and not lowering oneself to the level of confident idiots- yes ignoring them is a valid tactic. Don’t feed the trolls.

At the same time there is great value in first calmly and humbly refuting dangerous claims, then clowning the shit out of them. A little bit of hazing is part of how oldschool brotherhood is formed- that’s part of it. Fistfight, do shots, new best friends. Or even milder, prove you have a little mettle- you’ll need it to withstand the mental effects some gear will put you through at times. Weed out those who are a danger to themselves and who’s self harm damages the community.

But I’m old and maybe these are old ways. Possibly more important than anything is that for every stupid looksmaxxer that wants to run dangerous cycles with bad information there could be ten impressionable lurkers reading along that don’t know any better. A confident dangerous idiot gently corrected then given the beans by the OGs is a clear signal to anyone reading that maybe cooking your body with fertilizer actually CANT get you from 22% down to 11% in twelve days for example.

That’s exactly why I respect you, brother.
I’ve gone through plenty of your posts over time, and you consistently do two things...you give your perspective, and you back it with experience if applicable. That’s someone here for the right reasons, not just to be loud, but to be useful.

After that? A little old-school seasoning isn’t the end of the world. Sometimes friction is part of the process. Sometimes you test someone’s composure. Sometimes a little hazing reveals whether someone is here to learn or just here to posture.

 

[IndividualMan]

I've also really decided into nootropic meds quite a bit.

shiii which ones, I need to write a few long ass papers for uni, and reading your paragraphs makes me want to either restart moda or try some Racetams/dihexa/alpha GPC/noopept soon. or some NSRI meds