Serostim vs other pharma brands

[TjSquared]

For those who have used Serostim what is your experience comparing it to other pharma grade brands? I’ve looked around on here and other forums and I have seen a few post about Serostim not giving the same results as Geno, Nordi, Humatrope. etc. and that Seros seem to stall after some time. A lot of these post are old and I wanted to see if more users had this experience recently

I have used Serostim almost exclusively for 2 years now and I recently got a random Geno pen and noticed a difference right away in terms of less water retention and the fact that I went straight to sleep after a 4iu shot.. lol. The fat burning properties seemed to be a little more enhanced as well. I wanted to see if this is just all in my head or if there is more recent science now to back this up? I know that Seros are produced from mammal cells vs E. coli, but could that really make that much of a difference in how your body responds to it? Considering it’s all 191aa at the end of the day

Any info/experience is appreciated

 

[Type-IIx]

For those who have used Serostim what is your experience comparing it to other pharma grade brands? I’ve looked around on here and other forums and I have seen a few post about Serostim not giving the same results as Geno, Nordi, Humatrope. etc. and that Seros seem to stall after some time. A lot of these post are old and I wanted to see if more users had this experience recently

I have used Serostim almost exclusively for 2 years now and I recently got a random Geno pen and noticed a difference right away in terms of less water retention and the fact that I went straight to sleep after a 4iu shot.. lol. The fat burning properties seemed to be a little more enhanced as well. I wanted to see if this is just all in my head or if there is more recent science now to back this up? I know that Seros are produced from mammal cells vs E. coli, but could that really make that much of a difference in how your body responds to it? Considering it’s all 191aa at the end of the day

Any info/experience is appreciated

There may be an association between GH antibodies (i.e., antigenicity) with mammalian cell-derived rhGH versus E. coli (e.g., Iranian Norditropin saw 8.5% antigenicity versus 1.2-2.8% for E. coli-produced Somatropin). Yet, there was no clinical relevance (no decrement in GH response [IGF-I increase] nor height velocity).

There may be some minor influence of excipients used (e.g., some rhGH formulations may use mannitol which is a diuretic) on body composition. Genotropin uses meta cresol primarily. Serono Serostim sucrose & phosphoric acid.

Anyway, with all rhGH formulations there is a "stalling" after some time (due to diminished GH response, likely due predominantly to GHBP/IGFBP dynamics, diminished phosphorylation of downstream elements to the GHR, etc.)

I think the perceived differences by formulation are largely modulated by time * dose and by nutritional and training influences, other drugs.

 

[Qbanfreak90]

I’ve notice a lot of fluid retention with serostim

 

[TjSquared]

There may be an association between GH antibodies (i.e., antigenicity) with mammalian cell-derived rhGH versus E. coli (e.g., Iranian Norditropin saw 8.5% antigenicity versus 1.2-2.8% for E. coli-produced Somatropin). Yet, there was no clinical relevance (no decrement in GH response [IGF-I increase] nor height velocity).

There may be some minor influence of excipients used (e.g., some rhGH formulations may use mannitol which is a diuretic) on body composition. Genotropin uses meta cresol primarily. Serono Serostim sucrose & phosphoric acid.

Anyway, with all rhGH formulations there is a "stalling" after some time (due to diminished GH response, likely due predominantly to GHBP/IGFBP dynamics, diminished phosphorylation of downstream elements to the GHR, etc.)

I think the perceived differences by formulation are largely modulated by time * dose and by nutritional and training influences, other drugs.

Thanks for the in depth response brother. Diet, sleep, training. Etc. were unchanged on the two, but maybe there’s other simple factors at play that I’m missing

 

[TjSquared]

I’ve notice a lot of fluid retention with serostim

Same here. The facial bloat really gets out of hand if I go above 4ius a day on Seros. However I do like extra fullness in my arms and legs during a bulk

 

[Type-IIx]

Thanks for the in depth response brother. Diet, sleep, training. Etc. were unchanged on the two, but maybe there’s other simple factors at play that I’m missing

Don't underestimate the principal influence of time*dose, where after 4 months on any rhGH, you're going to have relatively worse side effects & relatively reduced benefits (due to the decrement to GH response [the increase to IGF-I]) at a constant dose. If you start with X rhGH preparation, it's going to seem to be > Y if Y is initiated after a period of months. Serostim also is an outlier, in that it contains no mannitol (a diuretic). In some preparations, there's 3-fold greater mg of mannitol than Somatropin (rhGH) [e.g., 36 mg mannitol:12 mg growth hormone]. That'll have an influence on fluid retention.

 

[TjSquared]

Don't underestimate the principal influence of time*dose, where after 4 months on any rhGH, you're going to have relatively worse side effects & relatively reduced benefits (due to the decrement to GH response [the increase to IGF-I]) at a constant dose. If you start with X rhGH preparation, it's going to seem to be > Y if Y is initiated after a period of months. Serostim also is an outlier, in that it contains no mannitol (a diuretic). In some preparations, there's 3-fold greater mg of mannitol than Somatropin (rhGH) [e.g., 36 mg mannitol:12 mg growth hormone]. That'll have an influence on fluid retention.

Oh okay that makes a little more sense. I’ve read that most other brands use mannitol, but that it was such a low amount that any effects on water retention would be negligible. I wasn’t aware it was that high in some concentrations

 

[scientifik]

There may be an association between GH antibodies (i.e., antigenicity) with mammalian cell-derived rhGH versus E. coli (e.g., Iranian Norditropin saw 8.5% antigenicity versus 1.2-2.8% for E. coli-produced Somatropin). Yet, there was no clinical relevance (no decrement in GH response [IGF-I increase] nor height velocity).

There may be some minor influence of excipients used (e.g., some rhGH formulations may use mannitol which is a diuretic) on body composition. Genotropin uses meta cresol primarily. Serono Serostim sucrose & phosphoric acid.

Anyway, with all rhGH formulations there is a "stalling" after some time (due to diminished GH response, likely due predominantly to GHBP/IGFBP dynamics, diminished phosphorylation of downstream elements to the GHR, etc.)

I think the perceived differences by formulation are largely modulated by time * dose and by nutritional and training influences, other drugs.

There is a known method to avoid this stalling apart taking a break?

 

[Type-IIx]

There is a known method to avoid this stalling apart taking a break?

There is. By the use of agents that increase IGF-I bioavailability. I write about these in Bolus that I plan to release soon.

 

[scientifik]

There is. By the use of agents that increase IGF-I bioavailability. I write about these in Bolus that I plan to release soon.

Can you tell us the agent like?

 

[TjSquared]

Can you tell us the agent like?

I’m interested to hear about this as well

 

[TjSquared]

@Type-IIx what’s your take on Semaglutide in place of metformin? I’ve seen some cases where Metformin lowers users IGF-1 on GH. I’m wondering if Semaglutide would have the same effect

 

[lilhawk]

Metformin does not lower IGF while on GH. I believe he has posted info that says it does the opposite and raises it. I’ve been using Serostim for years with and without metformin, and blood work showed no difference in my IGF scores on or off metformin.

 

[scientifik]

There is. By the use of agents that increase IGF-I bioavailability. I write about these in Bolus that I plan to release soon.

Ok I figured out. Estrogens seems to downregulate igfbo

 

[Type-IIx]

@Type-IIx what’s your take on Semaglutide in place of metformin? I’ve seen some cases where Metformin lowers users IGF-1 on GH. I’m wondering if Semaglutide would have the same effect

Met increases IGF-I on rhGH: see hGH + Metformin: A Good Thing (Metformin does not lower, but rather increases IGF-1)

I think the use of GLP-1 agonists fall on a continuum (dose- dependent) with combined rhGH, such that Met/BBR (GDAs; biguanides) < incretins (GLP-1, GIP agonists; SGLT-2 inhibitors; DPP-4 inhibitors) < LR3 IGF-I < insulin & its analogues (with little value for sulfonylureas), in potency to reduce hyperglycemia.

Semaglutide is unlikely to substantially affect IGF-I in combination with rhGH.

 

[Type-IIx]

Can you tell us the agent like?

In the book, stay tuned.

Ok I figured out. Estrogens seems to downregulate igfbo

Estrogens reduce IGF-I bioavailability.

 

[scientifik]

In the book, stay tuned.

Estrogens reduce IGF-I bioavailability.

The book will be pay per read?

 

[Type-IIx]

The book will be pay per read?

Working out the method of delivery to avoid copyright infrigement and theft is a major task. I don't yet know the scheme the attorney will decide that we use for the publication and distribution. Aside from still plugging away on the final section of the book, this matter is paramount.

 

[TjSquared]

My biggest issue at the moment is whether to stick with serostim and just deal with the fluid retention and what *seems* to be slightly less benefits, just for the fact that I know that’s it’s 100% real and straight out of a US pharmacy. Vs switching to Genotropin/Norditropin with a higher likelihood of getting fakes at some point.

@Type-IIx whats your opinion on the number pharma grade fakes in the market? Do you think it’s over exaggerated or vice versa & not worth the risk?

 

[Para_33]

My biggest issue at the moment is whether to stick with serostim and just deal with the fluid retention and what *seems* to be slightly less benefits, just for the fact that I know that’s it’s 100% real and straight out of a US pharmacy. Vs switching to Genotropin/Norditropin with a higher likelihood of getting fakes at some point.

@Type-IIx whats your opinion on the number pharma grade fakes in the market? Do you think it’s over exaggerated or vice versa & not worth the risk?

Rather than fakes, I think more likely stuff gets cooked in transit. And if something isn’t potent- that’s why more likely. But I have used a lot of different Hgh brands. Only Genotropin, Cinnitropin, and this random stuff called GenXTropin lmao it instantly gave my swollen ankles. In the garbage it went.