Is generic HGH worth taking?

[songsofpyramids]

Yes, there is evidence of this, albeit not subjected to rigorous statistical & probabilistic methods to root out the effects of random chance & surmise, from janoshik's impressions of dimer results. He cannot conduct such rigorous statistical & probabilistic methods on data that is subject to stringent privacy interests, legally.

There is also theoretical support for this. Dimer reflects GH polypeptide that has aggregated, think of it as "more bound up" or "sticky polypeptides." These "sticky, bound up GH" structures cannot activate the GH receptor as "cleanly" to fully activate or bind with the "torsional force" to the GH receptor versus unbound, more free GH, and so these dimerized GH structures don't augment IGF-I to the same degree, which acts in a complementary fashion to GH. That is, e.g., where GH is hyperglycemic, IGF-I is hypoglycemic; where GH promotes efflux, IGF-I promotes influx, etc. So in many ways you can get more "negative" GH effects that are not countervailed by more "positive" IGF-I effects with high dimer (% high molecular weight proteins).

Thank you for by far the best explanation of Dimer I’ve seen. Very interesting on how it binds to receptors. This seemingly confirms the rather robust anecdotal evidence of Dimer exacerbating gh sides.

 

[CoachCabo]

Good to know. What is your HGH dosage per week currently?

Also, anyone know if there’s any reason people inject into belly fat as opposed to other places? I tend to bruise a little bit there. I was just gonna go with glutes where there’s more fat. That’s what I’ve been doing with HCG.

You aren’t supposed to inject anything into belly fat.
You are supposed to pinch the skin and inject into that fold. It is “subcutaneous” not intrabellyfateous.
I mostly pin my HGH IM. Might as well get it in there as soon as possile.

 

[JackHoffman]

You aren’t supposed to inject anything into belly fat.
You are supposed to pinch the skin and inject into that fold. It is “subcutaneous” not intrabellyfateous.
I mostly pin my HGH IM. Might as well get it in there as soon as possile.

That is belly fat though!? Nyway thats the same method I’m referring to.

 

[Pinnacle Elements]

Most pros do not use generics. Unless they’re broke.

Does being a pro body builder even yeild that much money? Can’t imagine most make over $100k without a YouTube channel.

I looked it up. Average BB pro makes somewhere between $46,000-$66,000 a year. Top of the top (90th percentile) can make close to $200k.

Those boys are buying muaves or qsc blue tops at best.

 

[Type-IIx]

Does being a pro body builder even yeild that much money? Can’t imagine most make over $100k without a YouTube channel.

I looked it up. Average BB pro makes somewhere between $46,000-$66,000 a year. Top of the top (90th percentile) can make close to $200k.

Those boys are buying muaves or qsc blue tops at best.

While I may feel the same impulse to deride those incomes as not particularly stellar, often bodybuilding is supplemental income. Success in bodybuilding, which an IFBB pro credential certainly signifies, is associated with personality, character, and habits that one must possess that are all indicative of those traits that attach to high wage earners writ large.

Even if $46K was all a bodybuilder took in in a year's time, depending on cost of living, access/supply (how much he actually pays for pharma), doses used (not all are blasting 20 IU Genotropin daily year-round), and his willingness to forego a high standard of living, it's probably possible to use exclusively pharma if such a person really valued it (albeit unwisely IMO).

The two are so strongly correlated that I would say that how coachable someone is predictive of their financial security later in life.

 

[Pinnacle Elements]

While I may feel the same impulse to deride those incomes as not particularly stellar, often bodybuilding is supplemental income. Success in bodybuilding, which an IFBB pro credential certainly signifies, is associated with personality, character, and habits that one must possess that are all indicative of those traits that attach to high wage earners writ large.

Even if $46K was all a bodybuilder took in in a year's time, depending on cost of living, access/supply (how much he actually pays for pharma), doses used (not all are blasting 20 IU Genotropin daily year-round), and his willingness to forego a high standard of living, it's probably possible to use exclusively pharma if such a person really valued it (albeit unwisely IMO).

The two are so strongly correlated that I would say that how coachable someone is predictive of their financial security later in life.

Agreed that the discipline it takes to become a pro BB correlates to traits to earn a high income. However, if an individual is able to hold a typical 9-5 AND train/eat/supplement to the degree of pro AND maintain a healthy family/social life- I’d love to learn time management from that person.

I think you hit it pretty spot on about personality being a big role, which is why those in the spotlight certainly make most of their income from content creation. That andddd.. selling “supplements” like Rich Piana. Or actually selling supplements like Cbum.

 

[Evom1]

@Type-IIx do you know of a way to eliminate or greatly reduct the cts/hand pain/numbness that many of us encounter? Seeing people run 15-20iu at the pro level is so hard to fathom because even with serostim, the hand/arm pain at night on anything beyond 6iu is too much to get quality sleep

 

[JackHoffman]

This is

@Type-IIx do you know of a way to eliminate or greatly reduct the cts/hand pain/numbness that many of us encounter? Seeing people run 15-20iu at the pro level is so hard to fathom because even with serostim, the hand/arm pain at night on anything beyond 6iu is too much to get quality sleep

This is exactly what I wanted to find out about. Do you get carpal tunnel or this numbness from HGH? If so, at what dose and what dose can you avoid these symptoms? Also, is it permanent?

 

[Evom1]

Also, is it permanent?

Answer to this is no. A week or two after stopping gh it goes away usually

 

[Ateam2023]

yes my water retention went away when i stopped the hgh so i could re-boot my system, now i'm back on hgh at a dose of 2.5 iu i'm almost to my 3 iu daily goal with no water retention so far

 

[psauce]

@Type-IIx do you know of a way to eliminate or greatly reduct the cts/hand pain/numbness that many of us encounter? Seeing people run 15-20iu at the pro level is so hard to fathom because even with serostim, the hand/arm pain at night on anything beyond 6iu is too much to get quality sleep

At the outset, I'm always dubious of anecdotal reports, but they're better than no information at all. Here's what I've heard from a handful of people:

If you hit a dose that causes that pain in the hands and ruins your sleep, drop back down to a low dose -- one or two IU per day. Titrate back up very slowly, adding an IU every week or so.

If I tilt my head sideways and squint really hard, I can make up a bullshit reason why this makes sense. It isn't consistent with how we understand naturally (albeit pathologically) elevated HGH exposure in people. However, when varying purity and the timing of administration are thrown into the analysis, maybe the folks who experience this have stumbled on to something.

If you try that, please let me know how it works for you.

 

[Evom1]

If you try that, please let me know how it works for you.

I have always brought my dose up slowly 1iu at a time but eventually you hit that dose where the hand/arm pain is there no matter how slowly you approach it

 

[psauce]

I have always brought my dose up slowly 1iu at a time but eventually you hit that dose where the hand/arm pain is there no matter how slowly you approach it

This definitely matches my understanding of how people *should* respond, so it's not surprising. Thankfully, a lot of the stuff HGH does can be accomplished through other means. Too bad some of us will never be able to take a Liver King-sized dose, though.

 

[Evom1]

This definitely matches my understanding of how people *should* respond, so it's not surprising. Thankfully, a lot of the stuff HGH does can be accomplished through other means. Too bad some of us will never be able to take a Liver King-sized dose, though.

Haha yeah but if I took 16iu per day and only weighed 195lbs I'd quit!

 

[laclark89]

Haha yeah but if I took 16iu per day and only weighed 195lbs I'd quit!

Just thought I'd throw in, I heard on a podcast a while back with 3 bb coaches and they all agreed they can even build someone with shit genetics on 10iu. Not specific if pharma or not.

 

[AlexDavis43]

I have always brought my dose up slowly 1iu at a time but eventually you hit that dose where the hand/arm pain is there no matter how slowly you approach it

This definitely matches my understanding of how people *should* respond, so it's not surprising. Thankfully, a lot of the stuff HGH does can be accomplished through other means. Too bad some of us will never be able to take a Liver King-sized dose, though.

This is me, exactly. Had to very slowly increase and in divided doses.

0.5 IU AM for a few days then 0.5 IU AM + 0.5 IU PM for a few days. Then 0.5 IU AM + 1 IU PM. Et cetera.

I learned the hard way.

 

[Hugh Madbrah]

@Type-IIx is the IGF-1 increase from HGH predictable by anything or is it highly individual? Taking 3iu generic brings me from 300ng/ml to near 600ng/ml - tested 24 hours post injection. Wondering if this would be considered a good response at that dosage.

 

[AlexDavis43]

@Type-IIx is the IGF-1 increase from HGH predictable by anything or is it highly individual? Taking 3iu generic brings me from 300ng/ml to near 600ng/ml - tested 24 hours post injection. Wondering if this would be considered a good response at that dosage.

The IGF-1 response to GH is more a chronic thing, so test in 6 weeks.

Pulling 600 on 3 IU may or may not be a good indicator of IGF-1 response. Some guys with lower baseline IGF-1 can pull 300 on 3 IU.

 

[Type-IIx]

@Type-IIx is the IGF-1 increase from HGH predictable by anything or is it highly individual? Taking 3iu generic brings me from 300ng/ml to near 600ng/ml - tested 24 hours post injection. Wondering if this would be considered a good response at that dosage.

Yes that's good response assuming no other agents being used that affect IGF-I bioavailability (i.e., increase it).

In order to establish a true base-line in order to determine your rhGH dose/response (ΔIGF-I) see this guide:

Guide: How to Establish your Base-Line IGF-I (Serum) in Order to Determine Dose/Response (ΔIGF-I) to Agents that Increase IGF-I (e.g., rhGH)

Establishing a Base-Line Serum IGF-I Value Author: Type-IIx Intent: (1) To help users establish a base-line serum IGF-I value In order to form a meaningful basis for comparison of serum IGF-I changes to base-line. (2) To help prospective clients (i.e., Comprehensive Coaching [training +...

thinksteroids.com

And for the procedure to be used for accurate rhGH dose/response (ΔIGF-I) measurement, see:

The Serum IGF-I Test: Its purpose and its weaknesses, proper use, variation, average responses

Author: Type-IIx The GH serum test is... Primarily a measure of an individual's GH response not quality/veracity of a rhGH preparation. The serum IGF-I test is not advised as a means to determine veracity or quality of an rhGH preparation, as it is not intended for this purpose. Instead...

thinksteroids.com

Note however that there is a typo that I cannot go back and correct, in the opening paragraph, where I refer to the Serum IGF-I test as the GH serum test or some such. Don't get confused.

 

[OldGHGuy]

Agreed that the discipline it takes to become a pro BB correlates to traits to earn a high income. However, if an individual is able to hold a typical 9-5 AND train/eat/supplement to the degree of pro AND maintain a healthy family/social life- I’d love to learn time management from that person.

I think you hit it pretty spot on about personality being a big role, which is why those in the spotlight certainly make most of their income from content creation. That andddd.. selling “supplements” like Rich Piana. Or actually selling supplements like Cbum.

Ronnie Coleman School of Time Management might be for you