Tool to Assess your TT dose response --Percentile Curves

[thisismyusername4567]

Thank you for posting this. I've always been curious what my levels would be at X dosage. Please correct me if I am wrong but, my understanding is that if I fall at the 50% percentile at say 200mg, I would also fall at(or near) the 50th percentile at 500mg, 800mg etc. I'm not sure what to do with this information but hey it's cool to know...More data is always fun !

 

[readalot]

Thank you for posting this. I've always been curious what my levels would be at X dosage. Please correct me if I am wrong but, my understanding is that if I fall at the 50% percentile at say 200mg, I would also fall at(or near) the 50th percentile at 500mg, 800mg etc. I'm not sure what to do with this information but hey it's cool to know...More data is always fun !

Thank you for taking the time to say that

My pleasure.


Great question. At some point using a larger bolus of T may affect the apparent elimination rate compared to lower doses but I will try to not make this more complex than it needs to be at this point. Law of mass action would say you are exactly right nonetheless. So huge boluses may affect transient (peak/trough) over the week but not mean weekly levels after 5 half lives (stabilized serum profile).

The short answer is Yes I would agree.

Part of my hope is I will get some 1+ gram per week data points on here. All of this analysis is extrapolation past 600 mg/week as there have been no studies exceeding that weekly dosage.

 

[Fattyone]

Thank you for taking the time to say that

My pleasure.


Great question. At some point using a larger bolus of T may affect the apparent elimination rate compared to lower doses but I will try to not make this more complex than it needs to be at this point. Law of mass action would say you are exactly right nonetheless. So huge boluses may affect transient (peak/trough) over the week but not mean weekly levels after 5 half lives (stabilized serum profile).

The short answer is Yes I would agree.

Part of my hope is I will get some 1+ gram per week data points on here. All of this analysis is extrapolation past 600 mg/week as there have been no studies exceeding that weekly dosage.

I can’t rember who it was, but I’ll find it later, posted bloods on 1750mg test a week.

 

[Fattyone]

I can’t rember who it was, but I’ll find it later, posted bloods on 1750mg test a week.

It was @5scoops

 

[readalot]

Rules recapped for those who would like to help extend the analysis especially 1+ gram per week crowd. Get your name on the chart.



Minimum of 4-5 weeks with the protocol.

State protocol (weekly amount of test ester and frequency).

Tested potency of injectable (I will take what is written on bottle if it is Pharma Rx stuff). UGL please share 3rd party C of A.

LC/MS-MS results only for TT levels above 1500 ng/dl. Really I want LCMS data only.

Please state assay/lab used.

SHBG and fT will be considered, and I may make a companion fT plot at some point (please state the type of fT assay or calculated). Or I will make the calculation if you provide SHBG. That is definitely down the line. Lots of work.

 

[readalot]

I'm not sure what to do with this information but hey it's cool to know...

Haha, timely

Dragon Ordance Pharma GH FAKE (labs included)

The answer is yes are you fucking serious rn. Please tell us what "variables" would result in 1 gram of test a week showing test levels within normal range lol No dog in this fight, but with regard to IGF-1 conversion you are wrong. It is NOT a reliable test for the purpose people are using it...

thinksteroids.com

 

[readalot]

Great example that appears to conform to the requirements necessary to use the data.

First cycle

Back pics , one no pump , other with. Blood work on Tuesday, will update

thinksteroids.com

Congrats @SirNipples . To make sure, you were using no hCG on the last test, correct? Any other AAS / orals in the mix? Do you have SHBG for later testing round?

You will be my first data point for MesoRx members. Great handle to have on the chart. Thank you.

I will write up the example on how the data gets charted soon. Any of you 1+ g users I would like to use your data if you are testing blood accurately and preferably running solo Test. But no worries just disclose what you are using and make sure you do LCMS for TT and FT by ED if possible. Then we can make this into a FT tool as well.

$39 for accurate TT/FT but you would need to order SHBG separately. Disclosure: no financial conflict of interest but DiscountedLabs has a great price. That is what I use (via Quest).

If I was thinking ahead I would be collecting E2 and DHT as well but dose response curves have already been done in the literature and I am doing this all for free so even I have limits. I will continue on work the TT tool and hopefully FT tool here.


Btw: Data from SirNips via Quest linked above

TT 2119 ng/dl
FT 63 ng/dl

Using prior SHBG of 23 nmol/l

CFTV calculates FT = 70.5 ng/dl

About 12% difference (positive bias) which is typical even with physiological data @Type-IIx

CFTV is a great tool with well behaved bias across SHBG range.

TruT gives 81 ng/dl.

A comprehensive review here for more meager Test levels....

Calculate Free Testosterone with TruT by FPT

The idea of SHBG as a sponge that sucks up large amounts of testosterone and leaves your free T low doesn't seem to be how it really works. The way I understand it, high SHBG makes your meager production (revealed by the free T) look like it's normal or even high when it isn't. The SHBG is...

www.excelmale.com

See parts I and II and summary table.

 

[readalot]

Mind numbing comparisons of TruT vs cFTV...

Reference Intervals for Free Testosterone in Adult Men Measured Using a Standardized Equilibrium Dialysis Procedure

Again you heard it here first only at Nelson's ExcelMale! @Nelson Vergel Was going to drop this bomb a few days ago but you let down the curtains early LOL! https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/andr.13310 Reference Intervals for Free Testosterone in Adult Men Measured Using a...

www.excelmale.com

Reference Intervals for Free Testosterone in Adult Men Measured Using a Standardized Equilibrium Dialysis Procedure

... I am too impatient today to wait for the next paper so here you go. You got it here first on @Nelson Vergel 's ExcelMale. Given the Tru-T website locks you down after a few tries I didn't fill out the whole table but covered the boundaries: ... Very nice work! Shows why cfTV sometimes...

www.excelmale.com

Reference Intervals for Free Testosterone in Adult Men Measured Using a Standardized Equilibrium Dialysis Procedure

... I am too impatient today to wait for the next paper so here you go. You got it here first on @Nelson Vergel 's ExcelMale. Given the Tru-T website locks you down after a few tries I didn't fill out the whole table but covered the boundaries: ... Very nice work! Shows why cfTV sometimes...

www.excelmale.com

Either TruT should be renamed UnTruT or someone is measuring FT all wrong haha.

Reference Intervals for Free Testosterone in Adult Men Measured Using a Standardized Equilibrium Dialysis Procedure

... I am too impatient today to wait for the next paper so here you go. You got it here first on @Nelson Vergel 's ExcelMale. Given the Tru-T website locks you down after a few tries I didn't fill out the whole table but covered the boundaries: ... Very nice work! Shows why cfTV sometimes...

www.excelmale.com

 

[readalot]

Timed out so can't put the summary table in post 47.



Let's see how cFTV holds up for a 3g per week user. This will be quite something.

Getting TT/FT comparisons between labs (Quest vs Labcorp) and two TT methods for same lab (Labcorp) on blood samples less than an hour apart. I am a nut. I sure don't do this for the likes. My like to post count ratio is trash haha.

 

[readalot]

@PeterBond based on recommendation of @Type-IIx ...

Please see this thread and post 47 and 48 in particular. I am not aware of anyone focused on using cFTV or assessing its accuracy with the BB population. Also brings up the current harmonization effort for measurement of FT. Are you involved in the former?

Thanks for taking a look. Besides the TT tool I am considering a FT dose response tool as well. On the fence until we know what free testosterone is and how to measure it (so that we have a reference standard).

All of this came out of madman's posts at EM and our back and forth of using cFTV vs TruT.

I appreciate it. Perhaps I am aiming too high since just getting people to understand the TT tool is a challenge.

MesoRx is cool place. Hope to get some 1-3 g/week data points.

 

[readalot]

It was @5scoops

Goodlyfe test cyp bloods 1750mg a week

Goodlyfe test cyp 1750mg test c a week 1050 deca 1mg arimidex daily @GoodLyfe

thinksteroids.com

Thanks @Fattyone . Eyeballing puts the result in the bottom 25 percentile but within the expected range. Great. I can now extend the domain on the graphs. Also nice he was not on any oral which would have skewed the result from the lowered SHBG.

Well done getting the LCMS assay @5scoops .

What was your injection protocol and when did you draw this blood on relation to injection?

How long had you been as this dosage before this blood work?

 

[readalot]

SHBG 39
Test 2150/FT 625

Test e 350/mast e 350
Eod pinning

Moving this back here to discuss if ok with you.

So these look like Quest results?

Lcms for TT [ng/dl] and FT by equilibrium dialysis [pg/ml]

Blood was pulled morning before next pin?

I will start on updating the charts with Meso member data in the next couple days.

BTW, Vermeulen calculated free T comes back at 60 ng/dl. Very close to your measurement (62.5 ng/dl) it appears.


Thanks for sharing.

 

[Dang-1]

Moving this back here to discuss if ok with you.

So these look like Quest results?

Lcms for TT [ng/dl] and FT by equilibrium dialysis [pg/ml]

Blood was pulled morning before next pin?

I will start on updating the charts with Meso member data in the next couple days.

BTW, Vermeulen calculated free T comes back at 60 ng/dl. Very close to your measurement (62.5 ng/dl) it appears.


Thanks for sharing.

Yep to all three of your assumptions. I’m pretty consistent on bloodwork. One funny thing I didn’t mention was my lipids; my ldl was 55 and HDL 30. To get my HDL that high on blast I take all sorts of supplements and of course cardio. Before doing so much lipid support I’ve had an HDL of 17!

My HDL and general heart health is also why the Anavar is just sitting in the fridge and dbol and tren isnt on my list. Dbol and tren were both euphoric in different ways for me, one happy and powerful and the other a bit angry. My HDL and age is also why I’m sticking to test/mast/primo and a tiny bit of NPP. EQ is on my list to try as well but I worry about the often cited depression.

 

[readalot]

So I had been using discountedlabs but decided to give ulta lab tests a go. They also work through Quest. Plus they have all these silly discount codes that if you pay attention really save you money. So the prices are better and they report out from Quest just like discounted labs.

The also nice feature is they send you emails with results as they come in from the lab rather than waiting until all the labs on an order are complete. Haven't seen that from another service. Cool little dopamine hit.

Fyi.