I really like Modafinil - even at low doses

[ksm2]

I hear you brother.

I took dextroamphetamine (adderall) for several years as an adult, At first is was a life
changer. But as you know, the benefits diminish, you can only increase the dose so much to compensate, but the sides continue to worsen.

Forced off during the shortage was awful, depressing, and I lacked energy for a year. I drank so much coffee to stay awake it affected my vision, and even then it stopped working too as the tolerance exceeded my ability to consume more,

Starting Modafinil was a godsend. It's not the intense boost of energy you experience when starting adderall, but that's a good thing, because what it does provide is sustainable, without significant side effects, and doesn't result in tolerance that eventually renders it useless, In fact, everything points to regular Moda use being healthy, especially for the brain, because it's a potent anti-oxidant.

I started with 100mg day Moda around 9AM. It was wearing off too early in the day, and went to taking 100mg as soon as I wake (even if I go back to sleep), then another 100mg at 9-10am.

So I'd start with 100mg in the morning for a few days until you get used to the effects, and then up to the "normal" dose of 200mg, at once or split with the second half no later than 11AM.

Taking it daily results in a better effect after several weeks, than intermittent use, imo.

Modalert is the classic brand from Sun Pharma, and a reliable option. It's a bit expensive from PCT sellers but if you decide it's something you'll use regularly you can get it down to 25¢ per 200mg tab when buying a year's worth for ~$100.

If that's not enough, or too short acting, you can add or switch to longer acting armodafinil. I find 200mg Moda and 50mg Armodafinil is a good combo for me. (Moda is 50% long acting armodafinil and 50% short acting s-modafinil, each with slightly different effects.).

By tweaking my protocol over a few months, I was able to completely overcome my energy deficit, and time it perfectly so it lasts all day and wears off just before bedtime.

I was already wondering where you take the energy for your long posts lol

Maybe i should try moda again, can't tolerate normals stims and non stim adhd meds too. Does it improve your working memory? Any effects on impulse control?

Last time i tried it was a decade ago, before my adhd diagnosis

 

[Ghoul]

I was already wondering where you take the energy for your long posts lol

Maybe i should try moda again, can't tolerate normals stims and non stim adhd meds too. Does it improve your working memory? Any effects on impulse control?

Last time i tried it was a decade ago, before my adhd diagnosis

I have several external metrics I use to "measure" my focus. How organized is my desk. Am I keeping my vehicles detailed, my living spaces pristine, how well have I packed my luggage.

On adderall, at first, and later when boosting dosage, all these things would be perfect, always. There was an uncomfortable anxiety when they weren't (and never really went away when they were). It wasn't really a good state, more like continuous mild stress.

When I stopped cold turkey all these things fell into a state of chaos.

When I started Moda a few years later, I kept an eye on the same indicators.

Long story short, they all went back to the way they were on the amphetamine, but the change was in slow motion. Little by little over a much longer period, and have remained so ever since. Besides taking a longer time before manifesting this higher level of organization, it happened without the stress and anxiety that accompanied it previously,

Moda doesn't "extract a price" from you in exchange for the benefits.

It was observing this that made me realize Moda wasn't a "weak" adderall, a thought I initially had when using it intermittently, but a more natural performance enhancer (corrector?) when used consistently, without the brutal impact of adderall.

A steroid analogy might be Testosterone used consistently long term for TRT vs a Tren blast.

 

[xrayphoton13]

It's acid reflux, which coffee also induces for me. It went away after the first few weeks. I think the "alertness" makes you unconsciously tighten your gut, forcing acid up. Once your body gets accustomed to the heightened wakefulness state, the stomach relaxes and it goes away.

I'll definitely give it another week or two to see. I'm used to caffeine or caffeine/ephedrine and this very different. I'm not getting the afternoon tiredness or feeling hot and having difficulty sleeping that I get from EC or caffeine to late in the day

 

[Ghoul]

I'll definitely give it another week or two to see. I'm used to caffeine or caffeine/ephedrine and this very different. I'm not getting the afternoon tiredness or feeling hot and having difficulty sleeping that I get from EC or caffeine to late in the day

Yeah unlike every other stimulant, Moda has never prevented me from sleeping, but if I take it too late it makes me feel I don't need to sleep. It really sits outside of what most people think of in terms of "stimulant".

If I lay down and deliberately relax, I can fall right asleep at any time while using it.

 

[Country Club Hero]

Adderall / Amphetamine is poison, best avoided. At first it's amazing, but soon you pay for all the extra energy, and the physical side effects grow over time.

Anyone coming off adderall could easily
not feel anything from Moda, since they're dopamine depleted. It takes a month of clearance to feel the effects of Moda, which incidentally, doesn't deplete dopamine.

Conventional stimulants borrow energy from the future, Moda class compounds don't.

I would believe all that. Maybe not caffeine at reasonable doses though. It’s fairly harmless under 300mg daily imo. But tolerance definitely builds on all of them. Even modafinil imo.

 

[Ghoul]

I would believe all that. Maybe not caffeine at reasonable doses though. It’s fairly harmless under 300mg daily imo. But tolerance definitely builds on all of them. Even modafinil imo.

It's funny you mention that. I was looking for information regarding the degradation of Modafinil, because I wanted to understand how to store it long term, and came across an explanation of why when asking "Do you develop tolerance to Modafinil" you hear from some mostly casual sources "You need to increase the dose for the same effect" and from research sources "No tolerance is noted in long term users of Modafinil".

The TLDR answer is this:

Modafinil does NOT induce tolerance in the "normal" sense. Receptors don't become less sensitive to it that way you build tolerance to caffeine or amphetamine.

Modafinil is cleared by the CYP3A4 enzyme. When you start taking Modafinil, there's a limited amount of this available and the drug stays in your blood at high levels for an extended period, feeling stronger for longer, even at low doses,

The body responds by generating more CYP3A4, and the drug is removed faster. For these who don't know, you can smell Modafinil leaving you in the bathroom...

So you have to increase the dose to get the same effect.

However, production of CYP3A4 maxes out quickly.

From that point on, you no longer need to increase the dose for the same effect. You don't develop any more of the pseudo-tolerance. That's why:



(EDS = Excessive daytime sleepiness)

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1389945700000319?via%3Dihub

So if you're using it long term, you start low, increase dose incrementally for the desired duration and strength, and stay there. If you need to you increase, but there will be a point within the first few weeks to months, for the vast majority 400mg or less, where the effects no longer weaken and the same dose can be maintained long term, with many examples of people using it for 20 years without issue.

 

[ksm2]

Whats the best place for modalert in EU? Sadly PCT24x7 or any other indian shop is not an option here

 

[connoristiny]

yes also does modaf stack nicely with any other nootropic?

 

[Ghoul]

yes also does modaf stack nicely with any other nootropic?

yes also does modaf stack nicely with any other nootropic?

I've looked at a bunch of them but always find some concerning problem, only Moda and Armoda have a very strong safety profile, and even some evidence of improving brain health with long term use.

That said, Moda uses a unique mechanism, so doesn't interfere with Adderall and other ADHD meds, though I've never used both at the same time.

 

[Country Club Hero]

It's funny you mention that. I was looking for information regarding the degradation of Modafinil, because I wanted to understand how to store it long term, and came across an explanation of why when asking "Do you develop tolerance to Modafinil" you hear from some mostly casual sources "You need to increase the dose for the same effect" and from research sources "No tolerance is noted in long term users of Modafinil".

The TLDR answer is this:

Modafinil does NOT induce tolerance in the "normal" sense. Receptors don't become less sensitive to it that way you build tolerance to caffeine or amphetamine.

Modafinil is cleared by the CYP3A4 enzyme. When you start taking Modafinil, there's a limited amount of this available and the drug stays in your blood at high levels for an extended period, feeling stronger for longer, even at low doses,

The body responds by generating more CYP3A4, and the drug is removed faster. For these who don't know, you can smell Modafinil leaving you in the bathroom...

So you have to increase the dose to get the same effect.

However, production of CYP3A4 maxes out quickly.

From that point on, you no longer need to increase the dose for the same effect. You don't develop any more of the pseudo-tolerance. That's why:

View attachment 288812

(EDS = Excessive daytime sleepiness)

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1389945700000319?via%3Dihub

So if you're using it long term, you start low, increase dose incrementally for the desired duration and strength, and stay there. If you need to you increase, but there will be a point within the first few weeks to months, for the vast majority 400mg or less, where the effects no longer weaken and the same dose can be maintained long term, with many examples of people using it for 20 years without issue.

Definitely interesting. I can only speak from my experience. And I don’t believe I’ve ever used more than 300mg modafinil at once or in a day. But I started at 100mg and stayed there for weeks before going to 200mg.

I felt 200mg and considered it a solid dose to stay at for a while. Idk if I just ran out eventually or decided I was not really getting much out of it but I discontinued using for a while. I still order several blister packs every time I order ancillaries internationally but honestly it’s not a big deal at all when I run out.

But truth be told I only ever used Moda like twice ever without at least a little caffeine alongside. Imo it’s just not very strong at all. I’ve tried almost every brand that PCTx24/7 carries.

I may order some more soon and try and take a caffeine/stim break and use only 200-300mg of Moda daily for a month or so. It’s been 15 years since I’ve gone a day without at least a little caffeine.

Wonder what brand is considered the cream of the crop? Because there’s definitely a difference in quality/effectiveness from brand to brand IME.

 

[forearms]

Modalert is highest quality

 

[666bym]

Does anybody have experience with taking Modafinil while on Bupropion?
I want to try Moda and have read it should be fine to take together, but at least want to have some anecdotal advice.
Cheers!

 

[666bym]

Whats the best place for modalert in EU? Sadly PCT24x7 or any other indian shop is not an option here

Try Optitropin, they have all kinds of stuff on stock. Highly recommend.

 

[sushak]

Try Optitropin, they have all kinds of stuff on stock. Highly recommend.

Opti has only Turkish brand moda

 

[Ghoul]

Definitely interesting. I can only speak from my experience. And I don’t believe I’ve ever used more than 300mg modafinil at once or in a day. But I started at 100mg and stayed there for weeks before going to 200mg.

I felt 200mg and considered it a solid dose to stay at for a while. Idk if I just ran out eventually or decided I was not really getting much out of it but I discontinued using for a while. I still order several blister packs every time I order ancillaries internationally but honestly it’s not a big deal at all when I run out.

But truth be told I only ever used Moda like twice ever without at least a little caffeine alongside. Imo it’s just not very strong at all. I’ve tried almost every brand that PCTx24/7 carries.

I may order some more soon and try and take a caffeine/stim break and use only 200-300mg of Moda daily for a month or so. It’s been 15 years since I’ve gone a day without at least a little caffeine.

Wonder what brand is considered the cream of the crop? Because there’s definitely a difference in quality/effectiveness from brand to brand IME.

I know there's all sorts of controversy out there regarding the different brands, with "underdosed" and "bunk" tossed around a lot.

I've never seen a lab of any Moda brand showing its underdosed.

I think it comes down to two factors.

First, Modafinil is subtle. I describe it as being a psychostimulant without the "physical" stimulation every other stimulant including caffeine induces. I consider this a positive for long term use, but someone expecting an adderall, or even caffeine pill like effect won't feel like they're getting much.

Secondly, the speed at which you reach maximum blood plasma concentration determines the intensity of the effect. This is dependent on the formulation of the tab, the excipient ingredients, and most importantly, the particle size of the active ingredient.

If the particles are too large, not only does it take longer to take effect, the peak is lower, and tapers off more quickly. So despite all of the brands having 200mg of modafinil, actual bioavailability varies widely. The difference could be as much as 50% more or less modafinil being absorbed.

A surprising amount of companies make modafinil active ingredients, almost all outside of India, and I suspect suppliers are changed frequently which could explain some batch variation.

I find Modalert most consistent. Sun is part of a serious pharma conglomerate and has the manufacturing capability and expertise others don't, with HAB, makers of Artvigil (a very good Armodafinil, and 2 brands of Moda, Modvigil as well as Modawake), in second place.

I go into the particle issue here:

Funny I just got some Modvigil. It's not bad. Tried 200mg just today, for the first time. A bit weaker than Modalert. I could use it in place of Modalert if I had too. Perhaps 65% of the strength of Modalert.

It's from Hab pharma, who make Artvigil, which I've really come to enjoy.

Artvigil (armodafinil) lasts much longer, with slightly different characteristics.

If I'm up by 7AM I'll take 150mg Artvigil, 100mg modafinil at 9 and another 100mg modafinil around 11. This keeps the effect roughly the same through my usual midnight bedtime.

I've never seen an under dosed Modafinil tab lab result. However, I think the wide variation between the many brands comes down to something much simpler than I thought.

I found a patent that described widely different results in the initial research into the drug between US and European studies, at the same dose. Turns out they were using different batches, and under an electron microscope it was apparent the US batch had much finer particles, that were more uniform.

So looking at a blood concentration measurement, the small particle batch was absorbed much faster, peaked quickly, and stayed at a higher level in the blood for the entire duration, while the large particle version was slower to absorb, never reached the same peak, and tapered off to nothing before the small particle version even started to decline.

To ensure this better response, the active ingredient needs to be ground, then run through various pharmaceutical sieves, and the rest reground until they were small enough.

That extra step requires special equipment and extra time. I'll bet this is what Sun is doing with Modalert that the others aren't.

 

[Ghoul]

Does anybody have experience with taking Modafinil while on Bupropion?
I want to try Moda and have read it should be fine to take together, but at least want to have some anecdotal advice.
Cheers!

My doctor wanted me to use Bupropion while on my Moda prescription, FWIW.

I declined because I had a really bad experience with it years ago, before starting Moda, but I presume her recommendations meant she found no interactions.

Speaking of interactions, Moda can boost testosterone levels by up to 20% by slowing its metabolism, something to be aware of around here. Here's a lightweight article on the topic, but there's plenty of substantiating research out there:

Modafinil And Testosterone • National Lab Day

Table of Contents How Modafinil Can Help Boost Testosterone Levels The Benefits of Taking Modafinil and Testosterone Together The Potential Side Effects of Combining Modafinil and Testosterone How Modafinil Can Help Improve Your Workouts and Testosterone Levels The Pros and Cons of Taking...

www.nationallabday.org

 

[666bym]

Exactly what I wished to hear, thanks!
Also good that you point out the effect on Testosterone. Do you happen to know if this is only the case if you are natty. I am on TRT with hCG, so I would assume I am not affected by this.

 

[Ghoul]

Exactly what I wished to hear, thanks!
Also good that you point out the effect on Testosterone. Do you happen to know if this is only the case if you are natty. I am on TRT with hCG, so I would assume I am not affected by this.

It competes for the enzymes that break down Test, regardless of the source of the hormone, so while I haven't seen this addressed directly in research, I'd assume it's going to raise T from whatever level you're at without Modafinil.

 

[sushak]

Big thanks to @Ghoul for all the knowledge bombs you drop, really informative.
I just tried modanifil for the first time this week and really liked, and now have a pack of 100 modalert on the way
That is telmisartan, minoxidil, metformin, modanifil, accutane I take now that is thanks to your posts. With pharma clen on the way to try your clen approach too. Thanks again man!

 

[Ghoul]

Big thanks to @Ghoul for all the knowledge bombs you drop, really informative.
I just tried modanifil for the first time this week and really liked, and now have a pack of 100 modalert on the way
That is telmisartan, minoxidil, metformin, modanifil, accutane I take now that is thanks to your posts. With pharma clen on the way to try your clen approach too. Thanks again man!

Glad to hear it, all of those are life improving game changers imo, esp moda, (with the exception of clen, but enjoy your experience, good move to only use pharma).

I learn a lot here too, but mainly, by summarizing my scattershot research I'm forced to organize my thoughts, recheck facts, and it acts as a "sanity check" to ensure I'm making the right decisions for my own use of substances.

I definately don't want to become an example of "don't do what that guy did" to any great extent, lol.