First course when there are problems with the liver

[Aurum]

Hi, I'm almost 39 years old, 174cm/64kg (5'8/141pounds). For last 12 months I worked out 3-4 times per week and I think I have reached my natural limit. I consider steroids to compensate my age and dropping testosterone level. Despite my concentration of T is "pretty high for my age" as my doctor said, I experience all symptoms of low T including low level of red blood cells and hemoglobin. I have never used gear before and I've got some thyroid and liver issues so I want to be very cautious with pharmaceutics. Because of my health issues I have very high level of SHBG, I think it kills my free T.

What I want to achieve:
- I don't want to go crazy on steroids, I only want to compensate my age and SHBG. I would like to have my free T at the top of "normal natural level" for men.
- I don't expect quick results, I want to do gear as safe as possible.
- I have minor liver issues so I would prefer to avoid oral steroids and reduce any possible liver damage to its minimum.
- When I was 25 I worked out as hell and I had decent body shape, I would like to regain it, nothing more.
- I don't have any experience with gear, I'm here for reasonable advice.
- I have a friend of my age, he uses gear extensively for 8 years, he is steroid eating machine with twisted by steroids health and mind, I don't want to be like him.

I use some supplements for last few months: whey and casein protein, creatine, omega-3, D3, citrulline malate, L-arginine, Zn citrate, BCAA, collagen. I try to fight high level of SHBG by taking MgB6, vitamin D3 and of course healthy diet.

What would be your recommendation for my first cycle? I was advised testosterone enanthate, but I'd like to know what doze I should use (I'm small dude, 250mg/week looks too much for me), what anti-estrogen gear has lowest impact on liver and what PCT I need?

I have degree in chemistry so you are free to spam terminology and other difficult words, I'll understand it.

Some results of my latest blood test.

	My results	Lab says it's OK
Estradiol	37,19 pg/mL	≤84
Total Testosterone	31,72 nmol/L	7,88–33,87
Free Testosterone	24 pg/mL	12,3–46,6
SHBG	78,3 nmol/L	18–53,4
Free androgen index	40,51%	35–92,6

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Shutting down your HPTA and doing a cycle to obtain high natural test?

dude dont use gear.

Or take some boron

EDIT:Just saw you been working out for a year and reached your natural limit?

come on bro.

 

[Fattyone]

Shutting down your HPTA and doing a cycle to obtain high natural test?

dude dont use gear.

Or take some boron

EDIT:Just saw you been working out for a year and reached your natural limit?

come on bro.

He’s a hyper responder to working out. I see this all the time.

Plus he did it really right. Not like mostly right, but like all the way optimal.


That is a really high shgb. I’d try lowering that first and see what happens. Plenty of natural test in there.. just gotta free it up somehow

 

[Deezznutzz]

Personally if your test level is that high normal ...I would just stay natural until you want to do trt. If you tested that high natural... you probably won't see much results unless you do a pretty good 500mg blast later on down the road while on trt.

 

[bigMoJo]

What are the "thyroid and liver issues?

Do you know what caused those issues?

What are your RBC, H&H #'s?

What are your thyroid #'s?

Should I keep going on this list, or is your chemistry degree going to help us out here?

 

[readalot]

spam terminology

Wth?

Where's the rest of your bloodwork?

Dropping your SHBG ain't going to free up more T.

Here's some spam...

Chapter 12 - Hypothalamo-Pituitary Unit, Testis, and Male Accessory Organs

Read this chapter. Chapter 12 - Hypothalamo-Pituitary Unit, Testis, and Male Accessory Organs https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/B9780323479127000123?via%3Dihub From https://www.sciencedirect.com/book/9780323479127/yen-and-jaffes-reproductive-endocrinology

www.excelmale.com

SHBG Changes after Keto

The myth that won't die. Changing SHBG in isolation does not affect free testosterone in normal situations, except transiently. It is total testosterone that responds to such changes. SHBG binds testosterone, so more SHBG means more total testosterone, not more free testosterone. This is not...

www.excelmale.com

Permanent crash of estrogen?

Things still going well with the fin? Amazing. -Hypothalamus is fixed and producing serotonin - No anxiety, brain fog, or tremors. Before I could not even speak complete sentences without tripping over words, thinking of what to say, and being confused/avoiding eye contact. Now I fully feel...

www.excelmale.com

Check out that paper in last link. Common misconception in TRT land that lowering SHBG increases free T. Not how it works.

 

[readalot]

So good I will copy it over for you...

=====
The basics are encapsulated in this quote:

However, as discussed in Chapter 5, unbound drug concentrations will not be affected by decreases in the protein binding of restrictively metabolized drugs. Therefore, no dosage alterations are required for these drugs when protein binding is the only parameter that is changed.[R]

Here's another good one:

However, steady-state concentrations of unbound drug will be unchanged as long as there is no change in CLint.[R]



Spam complete, for now.

 

[bigMoJo]

So good I will copy it over for you...

=====
The basics are encapsulated in this quote:

However, as discussed in Chapter 5, unbound drug concentrations will not be affected by decreases in the protein binding of restrictively metabolized drugs. Therefore, no dosage alterations are required for these drugs when protein binding is the only parameter that is changed.[R]

Here's another good one:

However, steady-state concentrations of unbound drug will be unchanged as long as there is no change in CLint.[R]


View attachment 298091
Spam complete, for now.

@readalot
Brother, how do you find this stuff? You are either smart as f***, or, have the same Google-Fu sensei as @Ghoul. j/k

 

[readalot]

@readalot
Brother, how do you find this stuff? You are either smart as f***, or, have the same Google-Fu sensei as @Ghoul. j/k

The papers I was reading and sent over to the other guy at Excel. But he is no lightweight. F'n heavy hitter.

@Ghoul comparison? Nah, I am at best a Ghoul wannabe with very big training wheels . That dude is a Stud.

You can find my hallucinations under Readalot and Tareload at TNation and ExcelMale if you cant sleep sometime.

Unfortunately was banned at both due to perceived interference with their $$$ flow. God Bless Millard.

 

[Ghoul]

@readalot
Brother, how do you find this stuff? You are either smart as f***, or, have the same Google-Fu sensei as @Ghoul. j/k

When the internet was still relatively new to most people. I had a boss who thought what I did was simple. He'd stand over my shoulder, ask me to figure out whatever, then watch me search. He tried to emulate this and never got satisfactory results. He'd spend hours sifting through tons of info on the topic, and finally give up, giving me the task, and I'd find exactly the answer needed for our situation in 5 minutes.

Finally, him visibly frustrated, demanded the secret.

I told him any question researched on the internet will result in a waterfall of info.

What I do is know just which drop to pull out.

 

[readalot]

When the internet was still relatively new to most people. I had a boss who thought what I did was simple. He'd stand over my shoulder, ask me to figure out whatever, then watch me search. He tried to emulate this and never got satisfactory results. He'd spend hours sifting through tons of info on the topic, and finally give up, giving me the task, and I'd find exactly the answer needed for our situation in 5 minutes.

Finally, him visibly frustrated, demanded the secret.

I told him any question researched on the internet will result in a waterfall of info.

What I do is know just which drop to pull out.

The gift/the curse. He could have had 2 hours/days/months/years haha. No difference in outcome.

Way to go Ghoul.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

He’s a hyper responder to working out. I see this all the time.

Plus he did it really right. Not like mostly right, but like all the way optimal.


That is a really high shgb. I’d try lowering that first and see what happens. Plenty of natural test in there.. just gotta free it up somehow

Boron will free it up

 

[UncleBuns]

What are your liver issues?

Your hormone levels are actually quite good. If you want to use gear or blast and cruise you don't need some made up excuse, just do it if you want to but be aware of and accept the consequences and risks. You definitely don't need TRT. It will shut down your already healthy HPTA and if you actually do true TRT you will get very little or no benefit compared to what you are producing naturally. A terrible idea.

What you need is consistency and dedication to a meal/macro plan, training schedule, sleep schedule, and patience. There is no shortcut for dedication, hard work, and time. AAS is not the solution for your stated goals. Take the money you would have spent on TRT and hire a good coach.

Possibly you could benefit from GH. Have you tested your IGF-1?

 

[bigMoJo]

When the internet was still relatively new to most people. I had a boss who thought what I did was simple. He'd stand over my shoulder, ask me to figure out whatever, then watch me search. He tried to emulate this and never got satisfactory results. He'd spend hours sifting through tons of info on the topic, and finally give up, giving me the task, and I'd find exactly the answer needed for our situation in 5 minutes.

Finally, him visibly frustrated, demanded the secret.

I told him any question researched on the internet will result in a waterfall of info.

What I do is know just which drop to pull out.

Let me go the record saying that your I respect and appreciate your contributions on this forum (you already know that). And... I also respect others' conflicting arguments.

I got a real kick when I first read "google-fu." I like it because, to me, it just means great research, said in a cool way. What I don't like is it's been said in a way to minimizing an astute argument... kinda like saying "ok nerd."

Back before the internet, we had to drag ourselves down to the library--be very quiet, and spend hours looking through card catalogues, books, microfiche, etc.--to find the information we can now find while sitting on the toilet.

Back then it was called "research." It still is... now it's just f-in supercharged.

IMO, you have to be either intelligent, experienced, educated, care enough, or all or some of the above, to "google-fu" pertinent "research" for others to benefit or dissent.

So, if someone is google-fu-ing logical information, I say, "thanks for the great research."

 

[Aurum]

What are your liver issues?

Your hormone levels are actually quite good. If you want to use gear or blast and cruise you don't need some made up excuse, just do it if you want to but be aware of and accept the consequences and risks. You definitely don't need TRT. It will shut down your already healthy HPTA and if you actually do true TRT you will get very little or no benefit compared to what you are producing naturally. A terrible idea.

What you need is consistency and dedication to a meal/macro plan, training schedule, sleep schedule, and patience. There is no shortcut for dedication, hard work, and time. AAS is not the solution for your stated goals. Take the money you would have spent on TRT and hire a good coach.

Possibly you could benefit from GH. Have you tested your IGF-1?

I have Gilbert's syndrome (genetic disorder) and my bile is very thick. It doesn't cause problems by itself but I also have autoimmune disease of thyroid. My levels of free T4 and TSH often change their concentrations from way too low to way too high, I do my blood tests 1-2 times per month and adjust tyrosol therapy. Tyrosol hits my liver, genetic disorder makes everything worse. It's not a new problem of my body, I live like that for 20 years, hepatoprotectors help a lot. My level of SHBG now is best I can get and it will not go lower with age.

I have posted only part of my latest blood test because it was related to hormones. Rest of my results are OK except red blood cells and hemoglobin, they are at lowest level of "normal healthy range". Also I have low level of vitamin D, I already work on fixing that.

I know about consistency and dedication, in fact I worship Mario Tomic's teachings but age and health kick in. I began to think about gear for a reason, despite all my dedication I lose muscle mass, got a little bit of fat on my sides (I fought it very hard last year), libido dropped, I slowly lose hair and I experience some problems with memory and mood. My strength slowly goes down and I can't push same weight at bench press I used to push 6 months ago. When I noticed all those symptoms, I included SHBG, estradiol, total and free T in my blood test.

GH was my first idea but I have a friend, he used to be on GH, he survived cancer and after that he strongly advises against it. Another friend, who is steroid eating machine and professional coach, also advises to avoid GH due to risks of cancer-related side effects.

I did another T test in another lab just to be sure and second result wasn't so optimistic

	my results	units	Lab says it's OK
total T	27.69	nmol/L	7.87-33.84
free T	14.01	pg/ml	4.5-42.0

 

[BigTomJ]

Hi, I'm almost 39 years old, 174cm/64kg (5'8/141pounds). For last 12 months I worked out 3-4 times per week and I think I have reached my natural limit.

I stopped reading after this braindead statement.

 

[Astartes]

Hi, I'm almost 39 years old, 174cm/64kg (5'8/141pounds). For last 12 months I worked out 3-4 times per week and I think I have reached my natural limit.

This is a joke right?

If not, this is the stuff that makes me realize men have truly gone down the pathetic “easy pill” road.

No. Your are nowhere near your “genetic limit”. You may have reached your snowflake willpower limit.

Let’s call it what it is.

Stop trying to BS us and sell us (or yourself) this crap. If you want to do PEDs and just don’t want to waste time at 39 with achieving natural progression and habit forming best practices fine.

Don’t insult our intelligence. We have done this far too long. Reality check brother. Keep it real

 

[UncleBuns]

I have Gilbert's syndrome (genetic disorder) and my bile is very thick. It doesn't cause problems by itself but I also have autoimmune disease of thyroid. My levels of free T4 and TSH often change their concentrations from way too low to way too high, I do my blood tests 1-2 times per month and adjust tyrosol therapy. Tyrosol hits my liver, genetic disorder makes everything worse. It's not a new problem of my body, I live like that for 20 years, hepatoprotectors help a lot. My level of SHBG now is best I can get and it will not go lower with age.

I have posted only part of my latest blood test because it was related to hormones. Rest of my results are OK except red blood cells and hemoglobin, they are at lowest level of "normal healthy range". Also I have low level of vitamin D, I already work on fixing that.

I know about consistency and dedication, in fact I worship Mario Tomic's teachings but age and health kick in. I began to think about gear for a reason, despite all my dedication I lose muscle mass, got a little bit of fat on my sides (I fought it very hard last year), libido dropped, I slowly lose hair and I experience some problems with memory and mood. My strength slowly goes down and I can't push same weight at bench press I used to push 6 months ago. When I noticed all those symptoms, I included SHBG, estradiol, total and free T in my blood test.

GH was my first idea but I have a friend, he used to be on GH, he survived cancer and after that he strongly advises against it. Another friend, who is steroid eating machine and professional coach, also advises to avoid GH due to risks of cancer-related side effects.

I did another T test in another lab just to be sure and second result wasn't so optimistic

	my results	units	Lab says it's OK
total T	27.69	nmol/L	7.87-33.84
free T	14.01	pg/ml	4.5-42.0

Everything I said in my first comment still stands. You've only been working out for a year which is not much time at all. The issues you describe could be any number of things in your life. For some reason some guys want to blame every problem they have on testosterone. Your hormone levels are fine. Your issues are not due to testosterone so you need to examine all the other aspects of your life.

If you're not seeing the progress you want from the gym, it means that you are probably not training correctly or adequately. Hire a coach or trainer.

If you're going to do AAS, that's your decision. But from the information you have provided, it is very likely that all you will do is create more problems in your life and not much or any benefit. If you are not eating correctly, training correctly, sleeping correctly, and have your life generally in order, testosterone will not fix those things and all you will be is someone dependent on injections in the same place or possibly even with more problems than you started with.

My guess is that your training, nutrition and general lifestyle need a lot of work. Take the money you were going to spend on TRT and hire someone good to help you fix these things. Once you get in order, carry on at least several years before you even think about AAS.

 

[readalot]

I stopped reading after this braindead statement.

Bummer.

 

[buck]

You have barely scratched the surface of what you can learn or physically achieve.