MESO-Rx Exclusive Unique characteristics of oxandrolone

[Millard]

I think it's at least equally likely that caffeine decreases potency and bioavailability by increasing excretion! That's the more straightforward postulate or assumption.

But you are not thinking about it with the sensationalistic approach of an anti-doping crusader!

Caffeine is BAD because it make AAS MORE effective + LESS detectable!

 

[Type-IIx]

But you are not thinking about it with the sensationalistic approach of an anti-doping crusader!

Caffeine is BAD because it make AAS MORE effective + LESS detectable!

That’s what I suspect is going on here, indeed. These authors would rather kill two birds with one stone, and see caffeine banned [again] under any auspices.

These sorts of “explorative” studies funded by antidoting authorities can get silly.

 

[ManK]

I expose my personal case.
I have used Anavar about ten times, always in association with at least 500 mg of testosterone, always at 40 mg per day (the last time at 50 mg per day) always in two daily intakes spaced 12 hours apart, for 8 weeks in total, once or twice a year.
I am lucky, probably, to have very favorable lipid values since when I am off (true TRT with testosterone values never higher than 750ng) my HDL is never lower than 70 and LDL never higher than 100.
Every time I have used Anavar at the end of the cycle (after exactly 8 weeks) my HDL has never dropped below 33 and LDL never above 120 with a notable reduction in total cholesterol. There were no differences even when I used a little more (50 instead of 40 mg). As for liver values, I have always taken 150 mg of ursodeoxylic acid per day at the same time and I have always managed to finish the cycle with transaminase values obviously higher but always still within the reference range.

 

[Mayne]

You should have probably heard Dr. Todd Lee MD yap sublingually taken anavar half life is only one hour how much truth (...) is there to that by any research?

 

[Nunya]

Interestingly, I’ve seen it pop up a handful of times recently where women are saying they’re being prescribed oxandrolone on top of TRT because the oxandrolone will bind to SHBG and free up more Testosterone. @readalot had mentioned this in another thread where @Grey Spartan had posted an interesting oxandrolone/oxymetholone article and I guess I had it wrong about oxandrolone lowering T (?). Just interesting to me that it was being *prescribed* to some women to be used in conjunction with TRT when they had high total T, but low free T.

 

[readalot]

Interestingly, I’ve seen it pop up a handful of times recently where women are saying they’re being prescribed oxandrolone on top of TRT because the oxandrolone will bind to SHBG and free up more Testosterone. @readalot had mentioned this in another thread where @Grey Spartan had posted an interesting oxandrolone/oxymetholone article and I guess I had it wrong about oxandrolone lowering T (?). Just interesting to me that it was being *prescribed* to some women to be used in conjunction with TRT when they had high total T, but low free T.

Some additional reference material.

Search results for query: Oxandrolone shbg

thinksteroids.com

Oxandrolone ---> SHBG ---> TT

Most folks (including Docs) screw up this interplay really bad. Oxandrolone does not free up more T (FT). It lowers TT by reducing SHBG.

Post in thread 'Help Understanding Bloodwork'

Jan 20, 2024

What does the body do with the extra FT if TT is down, and FT stays the same, but endogenous T source (TRT dosage) remains constant? I'm assuming the TRT is cleaved from the ester into free T. The body excretes it? Essentially wondering why wouldn't free T go up if SHBG is lowered and endogenous T remains the same.

Imagine experiment where SHBG magically drops in half or just drops over the course of some time period (oxandrolone for example).

All other constraints above stay in place. Let's just make it as simple as possible by assuming TRT (aka free Test) is being introduced...

• readalot

 

[Nunya]

Some additional reference material.

Search results for query: Oxandrolone shbg

thinksteroids.com

Oxandrolone ---> SHBG ---> TT

Most folks (including Docs) screw up this interplay really bad. Oxandrolone does not free up more T (FT). It lowers TT by reducing SHBG.

Post in thread 'Help Understanding Bloodwork'

Jan 20, 2024

What does the body do with the extra FT if TT is down, and FT stays the same, but endogenous T source (TRT dosage) remains constant? I'm assuming the TRT is cleaved from the ester into free T. The body excretes it? Essentially wondering why wouldn't free T go up if SHBG is lowered and endogenous T remains the same.

Imagine experiment where SHBG magically drops in half or just drops over the course of some time period (oxandrolone for example).

All other constraints above stay in place. Let's just make it as simple as possible by assuming TRT (aka free Test) is being introduced...

• readalot

Yea, that search is open in another tab for more digging
For the use case of woman HRT/TRT, this was cited: Use of Oxandrolone (Anavar) to Increase Free Testosterone and Decrease SHBG.

So lowers TT but increases FT proportionally? To a point, it looks like, and then it just crashes T altogether? Edit: looks like you added more to your post with a note about how doctors can screw this up royally and of course doctors are capably screwing up women’s HRT already so…… oof.

 

[readalot]

Yea, that search is open in another tab for more digging
For the use case of woman HRT/TRT, this was cited: Use of Oxandrolone (Anavar) to Increase Free Testosterone and Decrease SHBG.

So lowers TT but increases FT proportionally? To a point, it looks like, and then it just crashes T altogether? Edit: looks like you added more to your post with a note about how doctors can screw this up royally and of course doctors are capably screwing up women’s HRT already so…… oof.

Post in thread 'First course when there are problems with the liver'

Oct 10, 2024

So good I will copy it over for you...

=====
The basics are encapsulated in this quote:

However, as discussed in Chapter 5, unbound drug concentrations will not be affected by decreases in the protein binding of restrictively metabolized drugs. Therefore, no dosage alterations are required for these drugs when protein binding is the only parameter that is changed.[R]

Here's another good one:

However, steady-state concentrations of unbound drug will be unchanged as long as there is no change in CLint.[R]



Spam complete, for now.

• readalot

• 
• 

Post in thread 'First course when there are problems with the liver'

Oct 10, 2024

spam terminology

Wth?

Where's the rest of your bloodwork?

Dropping your SHBG ain't going to free up more T.

Here's some spam...

Chapter 12 - Hypothalamo-Pituitary Unit, Testis, and Male Accessory Organs

Read this chapter. Chapter 12 - Hypothalamo-Pituitary Unit, Testis, and Male Accessory Organs https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/B9780323479127000123?via%3Dihub From https://www.sciencedirect.com/book/9780323479127/yen-and-jaffes-reproductive-endocrinology

www.excelmale.com

SHBG Changes after Keto

The myth that won't die. Changing SHBG in isolation does not affect free testosterone in normal situations, except transiently. It is total testosterone that responds to such changes. SHBG binds testosterone, so more SHBG means more total testosterone, not more free testosterone. This is not...

www.excelmale.com

Permanent crash of estrogen?

Things still going well with the fin? Amazing. -Hypothalamus is fixed and producing serotonin - No anxiety, brain fog, or tremors. Before I could not even speak complete sentences without tripping over words, thinking of what to say, and being confused/avoiding eye contact. Now I fully feel...

www.excelmale.com

Check out that paper in last link. Common misconception in TRT land that lowering SHBG increases free T. Not how it works.

• readalot

• 
• 

For those on exogenous Test:

Absolute FT stays same (ignoring any modest effect of oxandrolone on Test metabolism). I typically see 5 to 20% difference in FT measurement.

TT drops since SHBG decreased.

Percentage FT (FT/TT) will increase.

 

[Nunya]

Thanks for taking the time to narrow down those search results. I will look forward to reading through these.

 

[Sampei]

Interestingly, I’ve seen it pop up a handful of times recently where women are saying they’re being prescribed oxandrolone on top of TRT because the oxandrolone will bind to SHBG and free up more Testosterone. @readalot had mentioned this in another thread where @Grey Spartan had posted an interesting oxandrolone/oxymetholone article and I guess I had it wrong about oxandrolone lowering T (?). Just interesting to me that it was being *prescribed* to some women to be used in conjunction with TRT when they had high total T, but low free T.

it does lower T if you are not on TRT.

I believe most of the woman that used Oxandrolone by itself can report the first 1-2 months an increase in libido etc and than the libido crash unless you supplement with Testosterone.

I believe because it takes time to crash your TT so at first it's boosting it creating more FT lowering SHGB then it lowers your TT you aromatize less and libido goes in the drain

 

[readalot]

it does lower T if you are not on TRT.

I believe most of the woman that used Oxandrolone by itself can report the first 1-2 months an increase in libido etc and than the libido crash unless you supplement with Testosterone.

I believe because it takes time to crash your TT so at first it's boosting it creating more FT lowering SHGB then it lowers your TT you aromatize less and libido goes in the drain

Great summary. All my comments above were for someone on exogenous Test.

The transient increase in FT is shown above but then decay back to steady state (imaginary step change in SHBG).

 

[Sampei]

Great summary. All my comments above were for someone on exogenous Test.

The transient increase in FT is shown above but then decay back to steady state (imaginary step change in SHBG).

yeah I know, I was referring to Nunya comment about oxandrolone lowering T.
It does lower T in a person not supplementing exogenous Test.

 

[readalot]

yeah I know, I was referring to Nunya comment about oxandrolone lowering T.
It does lower T in a person not supplementing exogenous Test.

It will lower TT (total T) in both cases (+/- exogenous Test).

You da man!

 

[readalot]

[R]

 

[readalot]

However, as discussed in Chapter 5, unbound drug concentrations will not be affected by decreases in the protein binding of restrictively metabolized drugs. Therefore, no dosage alterations are required for these drugs when protein binding is the only parameter that is changed.

[R]

 

[readalot]

And of course one of the best sources of thoughtful info on the internet when it comes to TRT/scientific analysis:

Freeing Up Testosterone with Average T Levels and/or Higher SHBG

I have one last question about the idea of the body choosing a Free T level to target, and Free T being the constant in the equation with Total T and SHBG being the variables. How would TRT be successful in raising Free T then? With the increase in T, wouldn't the body just increase SHBG to...

www.excelmale.com

Thanks Cataceous!

 

[Nunya]

@Sampei @readalot Thanks again for all this. The interplay of these hormones and the processes around them is so fascinating and it’s enjoyable to read the links you’ve shared. I do enjoy interpreting graphsncharts as well.

That excel male site has some good reading too, been exploring it lately (as a result of a link shared here a few days ago).

While anecdote isn’t data, I am of the opinion that communities like this one are in some ways (maybe many) ahead of the typical medical practitioner, just love learning here. And of course thanks again @Type-IIx for the article.

I won’t pretend I understand all of it but maybe a LITTLE bit more

 

[readalot]

@Nunya The trick is separating the 99% BS from 1% gem. It isn't always clear and takes a ridiculous amount of time to read, analyze. Unfortunate that TNation decided to put up firewall on the info stored there. That's one of the reasons I was banned/left, sharing links from other sites on that forum. They don't like it.

Fortunately ExcelMale still publicly available and you don't see Millard having any problem with folks sharing info freely on his site from a range of sources. That's a pretty big deal IMO.